An old couple in difficulty and cannot pay rent, what could I do?

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An old couple in difficulty and cannot pay rent, what could I do?

Jo Zhou
San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 11 votes

Hi, everybody, could you give me some advises for my situation?

I have an older couple (in their mid 70s, they are in the wheel chairs), they have been paying the rent on time for 5 years. Lately, they have been late for rent because they were running out of money. They have secured loans from some veteran credit union to pay the last 5 months rents. Their lease will end by March 31, 2018. At first, they said they would move to live with their children, then they said they would move to a mobile home, yesterday, they were crying to my property manager, they want to stay 2 more days until some government facility would take them. They are donating all their belongings to the salvation army. Of course, we allow them stay free for 2 days. However, I wonder if they have no place to go, what would we do? Evict them? We don't want to through them on the street, they are really nice and decent people. What else would we do to help them? We cannot provide the free rent too long because we have a mortgage to pay also.

Does anybody have similar situation? What will it end up? I have property manager to handle this sad situation, but she will ask us what we want to do eventually. So what will be our bottom line? Not hurting the tenants, not hurting us too?

Thank you.

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
8y

this being pro landlord site you pretty much know what folks are going to recommend.. 

and of course you have your own debts.

Its a tough one.. I know if it was me I would let them live there rent free for 3 to 6 months to get their situation handled..  I would consider it one of my charitable givings for that year.. 

Although in a humerous note I fell for the one in Indiana two years ago my PM calls  tenant cant afford rent and heat and they have a baby etc etc.. record colds.. so sure thing no problem give them 3 months free then pay it over the remaining months.. kind of like utls do.. well you know what happened they lived 3 months free and bolted out on the rest of their lease.. thats my style of landlording i go backwards.

its these very situations that i was horrible at ... I could never make the tough decision until I figured out the folks were simply freddy freeloaders then I would do whats necessary.

all the thoughts above for help should be explored.. and depending what state an eviction could drag on for sometime if these folks want to go to court.. Judge may give them extra leniency.

But do what your heart tells you to do.. if they are good people and being honest .. do unto others.

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  • Account Closed
    Specialist · Paradise Valley, AZ · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Jo Zhou:

    Hi, everybody, could you give me some advises for my situation?

    I have an older couple (in their mid 70s, they are in the wheel chairs), they have been paying the rent on time for 5 years. Lately, they have been late for rent because they were running out of money. They have secured loans from some veteran credit union to pay the last 5 months rents. Their lease will end by March 31, 2018. At first, they said they would move to live with their children, then they said they would move to a mobile home, yesterday, they were crying to my property manager, they want to stay 2 more days until some government facility would take them. They are donating all their belongings to the salvation army. Of course, we allow them stay free for 2 days. However, I wonder if they have no place to go, what would we do? Evict them? We don't want to through them on the street, they are really nice and decent people. What else would we do to help them? We cannot provide the free rent too long because we have a mortgage to pay also.

    Does anybody have similar situation? What will it end up? I have property manager to handle this sad situation, but she will ask us what we want to do eventually. So what will be our bottom line? Not hurting the tenants, not hurting us too?

    Thank you.

     If they have no family or church to help them, they need to consider their reality. They have chosen to disconnect themselves from the way we are designed to live, by not building and maintaining relationships they can depend on in later life. Yes, it can be a pain to keep people happy for decades but family and church are there for you when you need them. Now If you are running a ministry, you let them stay. If you are running a business you need to treat it as such. It is not a reflection on you, they have chosen this path. If your business fails for lack of payment, that is on you and it puts undo strain on your family and other tenants. By the way, this is just the beginning, baby boomers are now hitting peak "retirement" and have little in savings. Are you sure you want to be a landlord?

    15Reply
  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    8y

    @Jo Zhou this is unfortunate for all involved. Do you know if they are on disability?

    Sounds like at least one of them is a veteran. I am retired military and I know the American Legion and VFW is typically quick to help veterans.

    3Reply
  • Randy E.
    Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    If they are veterans, I would first send them to various VA agencies to ask what can be done. After that, they should check with their local Housing Authority to see what programs they might qualify for. The problem is, if they haven't signed up yet, many of those programs have months-long or even years-long waiting lists.

    Bottom line though is they cannot stay in your property rent free.  You need to think about what your hard line date is.  Is it two days free?  A week free?  A month free?  Only you can answer that.  Neither two days nor two months is right nor wrong.  It's simply a matter of what you choose.  However, once you choose your hard date, I would stick by it.  If you tell them they have one week, be prepared to have them move at the end of 7 days.

    It's been my experience that tenants never really leave and become homeless.  At the "final moment" some friend/family/agency is waiting with a place for them to stay.  It may not be convenient for either your tenant or the person who takes them in, but you shouldn't worry much.  Someone will take them.  But only after you set a hard date and have your property manager sternly insist they be out by that date.  As long as you equivocate, they will cry the blues and say they have nowhere to go.

    9Reply
  • Jonathan Holmes
    Investor · Warren, OH · Member since 2015 · 168 posts · 188 votes
    8y
    How long are you willing to pay their bills? It is tremendously sad that they are in this situation but unless you are willing to adopt them for the rest of their lives you cannot make yourself responsible. You don’t know the choices that were made that have lead them to where they are at. There are people in sad situations everywhere. Your family must be the priority. That said there are charities, county and state resources they can turn to point them in those directions if needed.
    8Reply
  • Grant Rothenburger
    Investor · Taylor Mill, KY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 964 votes
    8y

    @Jo Zhou Find and reach out to veteran organizations, I'm sure you can find someone to help out in those organizations.

    2Reply
  • Cara Lonsdale
    Realtor and Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    Everyone has a sob story as long as there is someone to listen to it.  

    I had a tenant who begged me not to raise rent for YEARS.  She told me that she was scraping by, and living hand to mouth.  I would only inch it up annually like $25 on a $1,225 rental rate.  The market grew over the years, and I was under market by at least $250!  Finally, I told her that I had to raise the rent to at least $1,400, and I gave her over 4 months notice so that she could plan/prepare if she decided to move.  WITHOUT A BLINK of an eye, she answer back, "No, this is my home.  I'll just make it work".

    It made me somewhat angry because I had allowed my heartstrings to be pulled all those years, all to find out that it was all for nothing.  She had the money.

    When people need to pony up, they will.  

    While sad (potentially), this is NOT your problem.  

    6Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y

    this being pro landlord site you pretty much know what folks are going to recommend.. 

    and of course you have your own debts.

    Its a tough one.. I know if it was me I would let them live there rent free for 3 to 6 months to get their situation handled..  I would consider it one of my charitable givings for that year.. 

    Although in a humerous note I fell for the one in Indiana two years ago my PM calls  tenant cant afford rent and heat and they have a baby etc etc.. record colds.. so sure thing no problem give them 3 months free then pay it over the remaining months.. kind of like utls do.. well you know what happened they lived 3 months free and bolted out on the rest of their lease.. thats my style of landlording i go backwards.

    its these very situations that i was horrible at ... I could never make the tough decision until I figured out the folks were simply freddy freeloaders then I would do whats necessary.

    all the thoughts above for help should be explored.. and depending what state an eviction could drag on for sometime if these folks want to go to court.. Judge may give them extra leniency.

    But do what your heart tells you to do.. if they are good people and being honest .. do unto others.

    Podcast Guest on Show #222
    JLH Capital Partners51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    18Reply
  • Eric James
    Investor · Malakoff, TX · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    Now I'm starting to understand why you don't like/got out of the landlording business. I guess you have too soft of a heart.

    1Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Eric James:

    Now I'm starting to understand why you don't like/got out of the landlording business. I guess you have too soft of a heart.

    Yup  softest heart and one of the worlds worst landlords.. I believe everyone is genuine.. plus just to busy to worry about this stuff half the time 

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    3Reply
  • Bill F.
    Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    @Jo Zhou Wow, one of the more difficult cases. 99% of the time I fall into the start eviction ask questions later camp, but this is that 1% I guess.

     Assuming all of the assumptions we've made are true: 1. they are good people deserving of help, 2. they have tried everything (like taking out a loan, I've never heard of anyone doing that. Most just don't pay you), 3. one of them served in the military; you have an opportunity to help someone so I say take it. 

    Making sure to make a clear distinction between your rental business and your personal finances, nothing says you can't add a few months rent to their account out of your own pocket, via some cash to your PM. If that's not an option you can take a few hours to research and call around local charities, veteran's groups, housing assistance programs. Taking into account the technological difference what you could accomplish in a few hours would take them days or weeks. Call them up and offer them the fruits of your research. Drop by and offer to help them fill out a few forms online if you so choose. 

    I could also be clouded by the assumption that they are veterans and I'm picturing evicting my grand parents, so take my advice with a grain of salt lol.

    4Reply
  • Reed Kelly
    Architect · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 34 posts · 22 votes
    8y
    Wow this sounds like a really hard situation for them. It’s always hard to see someone else go through a difficult situation, particularly if there’s not a straight forward way out. Like most people here, I agree that you can’t let them stay indefinitely or for free (not a surprising conclusion given this is a real estate investing site). You are running a business and eventually need to make a decision in the interest of your company. It will be hard because you’re an empathetic and caring person (I’m guessing. Otherwise you wouldn’t be writing about it here). From a legal perspective, are there ramifications from NOT kicking them out?Treating tenants differently? Would your response/action be the same if they weren’t in wheelchairs or weren’t seniors, but we’re average tenants who were out of work and ran out of money?
    1Reply
  • Ana Marie B.
    Rental Property Investor · SF Bay Area, CA · Member since 2015 · 206 posts · 156 votes
    8y

    @Jo Zhou - I feel for you.  You seem like you have a big heart.  I'm the same way as you.  These are elderly tenants who have come across hard times.  I work for the Dept. of Human Services in the City & County of San Francisco. I would contact the Dept. of Aging and Adult Services or Adult Protective Services or its equivalent in San Diego and report this situation.  The reason I mention APS is because these are disabled seniors who are at risk of becoming homeless and APS staff can certainly point you in the right direction.  

    Obviously,  you also need to have a discussion with these tenants about the fact that you can't allow them to remain rent free for much longer, but that you're doing your best to get them some help. Best of luck with this difficult situation. 

    8Reply
  • Rob D.
    Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2015 · 280 posts · 111 votes
    8y

    This is tough. At a certain point in time you’re gonna have to make a decision you may not like. 

    Eventually a tenants financial issues will become a landlords financial issues. In this case if you keep going down that road you’re on you’re hurting yourself and then they will be evicted anyway when the bank takes your rental when they foreclose.  Sometimes in this business you have to make crappy choices. If you morally can’t make such choices get out of this business. You will hurt your family

    0Reply
  • Jo Zhou
    OP
    San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 11 votes
    8y

    Wow, thank you for all of your advises, specially to @@to point out specific organizations that may help the tenant in this situation. Thank you for @Jay Hinrichs and @Bill F. that you understand I really want to help them in my capacity. Thank you for @Mike M., @Cara Lonsdale and @Reed Kelly, @Rod D. to remind me of separating charity and business. I really agree with you because I am not in any position to have a charity. 

    See, I want to do both, help them but not become a charity. However, it seems that I cannot do both. There are still several days by April 2, I will keep you post where the things go. I will reach out those agencies and organizations to see what they can do for them.  

    @Mike M and @Rod D. you are questioning whether I should be in the rental business or not. Sure, I will think about it because I accidently become the landlord at the first place. Also, would you suggest something better and still passive? So far, I can see, at least, in this business, I could choose to do the right things, I thought. 

    1Reply
  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    I think the most important part is that you set a hard deadline and stick to it...... PERIOD....no exceptions. When that deadline occurs is totally up to you....the deadline will be based on where you sit on the spectrum of complete pushover vs heartless cutthroat business man....... everyone has to decide where they want to be.

    Personally I would probably set it at 30 days....1 month...no exceptions...period.

    0Reply
  • Jeff Small
    Investor · Sewell, NJ · Member since 2016 · 68 posts · 48 votes
    8y
    Sorry but you must evict. This is a business
    1Reply
  • Aaron Linden
    South Bend, IN · Member since 2015 · 180 posts · 93 votes
    8y

    @Jo Zhou Here is a crazy idea that would allow you to save face in front of the tenant AND your PM AND help the couple out.


    Tell your PM to evict them after some set time frame, let's say 2 months and make sure the tenants know this is the requirement. Then send an anonymous donation to the PM company or the couple. Viola! So long as you do not care who gets the credit for helping them out you have simultaneously helped them and maintained your position as the "hardened business owner".

    Then in the meantime you can see if the VA or some other institution could help them out. It buys both of you some time and opens up options (I love options) at the very least.

    3Reply
  • Amy Beth
    Rental Property Investor · Edison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 753 posts · 565 votes
    8y
    I would give them the two days and let the property manager know that is all they can get. Otherwise you are just delaying an inevitable eviction and many months of lost rent until you can’t support them anymore. Let the property manager handle it because it will be hard on your emotionally to do it.
    2Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    8y

    I would make it crystal clear that because I operate a business, not a charity, they would need to go immediately unless they made their full rent payment on the first. Chances are extremely high that they will make their rent, surprise.

    I would then make it very clear that I will be letting them out of their lease and they must provide me official notice immediately that they will be moving the end of April. If they are on the brink you do not want 2 days notice of a vacancy at the end of April.

    If they do not have the months rent then pro rate the rent and have them pay daily. Again have them sign official notice that they are leaving by April 7th. You update the notice weekly as long as they are paying with the understanding they will be on the street when they stop paying or by end of April at the latest. Obviously you can not legally put them on the curb unfortunately but in most cases the threat should be enough to motivate them to find assistance to move.

    Begin immediately searching for a new tennat for the first of May. 

    That would be the absolute limit of my compassion. Not actually compassion more an effort to not have a vacancy and lost income if it is possible to get anything from them. Bottom line is they must go asap with as little out of pocket/loss on your part as possible.

    0Reply
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Aaron Linden:

    @Jo Zhou Here is a crazy idea that would allow you to save face in front of the tenant AND your PM AND help the couple out.


    Tell your PM to evict them after some set time frame, let's say 2 months and make sure the tenants know this is the requirement. Then send an anonymous donation to the PM company or the couple. Viola! So long as you do not care who gets the credit for helping them out you have simultaneously helped them and maintained your position as the "hardened business owner".

    Then in the meantime you can see if the VA or some other institution could help them out. It buys both of you some time and opens up options (I love options) at the very least.

    what happens if they use this donation to address other debts?  Now you are paying for their home and their groceries.

    I am too soft to tell anyone what to do.  I have paid my hair dresser's rent twice and they are not my tenant.  First time I agreed to have her work it off via haircuts and it took a long time (years: San Diego rents are high) to pay it off.    The second time I did not desire another multi year interest free loan so she was supposed to make monthly payments ($100/month) but it did not occur.  So I get my haircut and do not pay and she has another multi year interest free loan.  

    I just did not want to see her and her child evicted.  She drives a 30 year old Camaro with body damage and bought another junker Camaro (worse than the first) via financing for her 16 year old child to drive.  Both vehicles belong on the scrap heap.  The first Camaro's repair bill was why she needed the second loan.

    I would like to say I would give the old couple a month and then evict but I would probably end up giving them longer.  However, I would not send them additional money (I am not that soft).

    2Reply
  • Aaron Linden
    South Bend, IN · Member since 2015 · 180 posts · 93 votes
    8y

    @Dan H. I agree entirely, but that is exactly the point! If one is to have compassion  should it matter where the money goes? (besides like I said above you could just have an anonymous payment applied to the tenants account with the PM)  The underlying motif in that suggestion is that running your business is one matter and making charitable donations is another. By acting in the way suggested it clearly separates the two perspectives and may make it simpler for the OP to deal with the situation or to see it in a new perspective. The suggestion is a way of putting a different perspective on the situation. To your point, aren't you simply donating money to the person if you are letting them live free?

    0Reply
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Aaron Linden:

    @Dan H. I agree entirely, but that is exactly the point! If one is to have compassion  should it matter where the money goes? (besides like I said above you could just have an anonymous payment applied to the tenants account with the PM)  The underlying motif in that suggestion is that running your business is one matter and making charitable donations is another. By acting in the way suggested it clearly separates the two perspectives and may make it simpler for the OP to deal with the situation or to see it in a new perspective. The suggestion is a way of putting a different perspective on the situation. To your point, aren't you simply donating money to the person if you are letting them live free?

     I would say when you let someone live rent free you are donating money to the person but if you send them additional money and they use if for something other than the rent then you are donating the rent and in addition donating cash for them to cover other expenses.  That is a lot of charity.

    0Reply
  • Kristina Jensen
    El Paso, TX · Member since 2017 · 13 posts · 4 votes
    8y

    This is very sad indeed.  You're human after all.  My tenant has fallen 3 months behind (total) over the last 6 years (and remains behind to this day).  A few days ago he asked for another couple weeks for the rent due to a sob story (wife in hospital, rare disease, doctors unsure, etc.) but I had had enough.  I simply never replied to him and within an hour he told me "Never mind I was able to borrow the money."

    I should probably hire Thomas S as a PM to do what I do not!

    I think he likley always had the money, he just prioritized other debts ahead of mine.  I think the majority (not all) of people who say they can't pay really can.

    I think about the following when given a situation like yours:  If you give them the free rent, then why not head down to the local shelters and find other disadvantaged people and offer them free rent as well?  It would be just as fair, no?  I'm sure there would be a woman with a child that was abused by a husband that would love to get out of there.  Equally sad and equally not your responsibility.

    It's a heart wrenching decision, but one that I think needs to happen sooner than later.

    My recommendation?  Do the leg work for them online and see what benefits they can receive.  If they are like my grandparents, they would never find the resources on their own, not even after weeks of searching.  That way your conscious is clear(er).

    0Reply
  • Bjorn AhlbladPro Member
    Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    8y

    @Jo Zhou there have been some outstanding suggestions about senior services and veterans agencies providing resources or funds. I agree that these people should not be put out, but also you have to deal with this in a businesslike manner. I would contact the children and get them involved and get yourself out of the loop; or before you know it you are feeling some responsibility for these unfortunate folks. Sure you can give them a month or two at no rent, or partial rent, if that is what you choose to do. But to become a part-time fundraiser on top of that; the children and/or a social worker need to step in and help with form filling, contacting agencies etc. A social worker knows where resources and money might come from and how to fill out the forms and get matters handled. I am surprised the children are not on the scene already? How do these guys even get groceries, do laundry or whatever?

    I hope this works out well for you and leaves you feeling good and unhurt financially. You can be a good landlord and show some compassion too sometimes.

    2Reply
  • Jo Zhou
    OP
    San Diego, CA · Member since 2016 · 40 posts · 11 votes
    8y

    @Aaron Linden, I have to agree with Dan, he is in Poway, California, we are in the same area. The rent is very high, this one is $2300 a month. I won’t be able to send additional donation to them. That is on top of the lost rent. I cannot afford to do it. 

    @Dan H., thank you for sharing your story. I see you have a kind ❤️, we all want to help, but we don’t want life long free haircut for rental payment. Right now, the couple said they would move out on April 2. I hope there would be a government agency to take them, but my gut feeling is not. Hopefully, it is just me thinking too much.

    1Reply
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