Tenant is late and has cancer
Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2017 · 7 posts · 1 vote
Tenant is late and has cancer
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Rental Property Investor · Everywhere, USA · Member since 2012 · 689 posts · 525 votes
8y@Account Closed - I have dealt with a lot of stories, some real, and some not from tenants. If you want to keep things strictly business, issue a notice, then file for eviction if she doesn't pay.
What might be more amenable, for both your soul, wallet and her, is to sit down and have a conversation with her. Have a face to face conversation explaining you can't afford to have her not pay, and see if she can get help with rent, or talk through a timelines where she can move in with family, and you let her out of the lease with no penalties. Giver her 30 days or something like that to transition to a different living situation. Offer to pay for a moving truck out of her deposit. I think there are some ways where you can help her transition and not kill your wallet, and then get the unit filled with a paying tenant.
57 Replies
- Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes8y
"forgive the past due rent"
Where is the advantage for the landlord for forgiving past due rent. It has no bering for the tenant in choosing to voluntarily leave or be evicted. Is every tenant claiming to have a serious medical condition to be excused for rent owed. Should we start asking for proof from their doctor. Is a death in the family sufficient justification for not paying rent. What about a heart attack or stroke. Why would a landlord, as opposed to any other creditor, consider forgiving debts. Are we all really that bad at business. Why do so many investors consider landlords to be a special sector of the business community required to place our customers personal life situations ahead of business concerns. What is wrong with this picture. Are we all really only doing this as a hobby.
Absolutely release her from the lease or evict but there is no justification for releasing any tenant from paying money owed to creditors, landlords included. We are not social workers.
- Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes8y
Originally posted by @Greg H.:
You seem to be a big tenant advocate on BP. No problem with that. So, what if the situation is reversed and the landlord has cancer and is struggling to pay their bills. Would you also advocate the tenant pay for repairs or paying extra rent ?
If we are going to take this to a personal level, surely it goes both ways, right ?
A sensible employee doesn't threaten to quit every time his employer does something that may contractually entitle him to. That doesn't mean that the employee is an employer advocate.
A sensible employer doesn't threaten to fire an employee every time the employee does something wrong. That doesn't make the employer a charity.
A sensible spouse doesn't threaten divorce or separation every time something goes wrong in the marriage.
In almost no other walk of life do sensible people threaten to terminate relationships as soon as something doesn't go by the book.
A sensible landlord doesn't threaten eviction every time a tenant is late.
It doesn't mean that the business is being run as a charity nor does it mean that such a landlord is a tenant advocate. Neither does it make one a charity or a tenant advocate to recognise that it is in a business's best interest to retain it's customers so routinely threatening to fire them is probably not the best client retention strategy.
To your specific question. Landlord tenant relationships are not symmetrical, tenants have few other obligations than paying the rent. If a landlord has cancer and they are running a business and not a charity then they should probably have a contingent arrangement for the management of the property if they are no longer capable of doing so.
- Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes8y
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:
"forgive the past due rent"
Where is the advantage for the landlord for forgiving past due rent. It has no bering for the tenant in choosing to voluntarily leave or be evicted. Is every tenant claiming to have a serious medical condition to be excused for rent owed. Should we start asking for proof from their doctor. Is a death in the family sufficient justification for not paying rent. What about a heart attack or stroke. Why would a landlord, as opposed to any other creditor, consider forgiving debts. Are we all really that bad at business. Why do so many investors consider landlords to be a special sector of the business community required to place our customers personal life situations ahead of business concerns. What is wrong with this picture. Are we all really only doing this as a hobby.
Absolutely release her from the lease or evict but there is no justification for releasing any tenant from paying money owed to creditors, landlords included. We are not social workers.
You seem to have this Alice in Wonderland notion of business that has never heard of the concept of a bad debt. Sometimes (not always) a business has to do eat a loss - it's that bit of business that is known as risk taking.
- Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes8y
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:
Having cancer does not absolve a individual from fulfilling their financial responsibilities.
Good will is a two way street. Good will is destroyed by tenants that do not pay rent on time as required by their contract.
Sorry but you don't know the meaning of the word. Goodwill is about relationships not contracts. Many businesses would not survive if they kept threatening to terminate relationships with late (even habitually late) paying clients.
Businesses have Customer Relations departments because they have a bigger vision of business than you do, not because the contracts they have with their clients are not enforceable.
- Real Estate Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 65 posts · 50 votes8yA wiseman told me, “Give to charity but never become one!” Enough said, you decide what you want to do.
- Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Greg H.:
You seem to be a big tenant advocate on BP. No problem with that. So, what if the situation is reversed and the landlord has cancer and is struggling to pay their bills. Would you also advocate the tenant pay for repairs or paying extra rent ?
If we are going to take this to a personal level, surely it goes both ways, right ?
A sensible employee doesn't threaten to quit every time his employer does something that may contractually entitle him to. That doesn't mean that the employee is an employer advocate.
A sensible employer doesn't threaten to fire an employee every time the employee does something wrong. That doesn't make the employer a charity.
A sensible spouse doesn't threaten divorce or separation every time something goes wrong in the marriage.
In almost no other walk of life do sensible people threaten to terminate relationships as soon as something doesn't go by the book.
A sensible landlord doesn't threaten eviction every time a tenant is late.
It doesn't mean that the business is being run as a charity nor does it mean that such a landlord is a tenant advocate. Neither does it make one a charity or a tenant advocate to recognise that it is in a business's best interest to retain it's customers so routinely threatening to fire them is probably not the best client retention strategy.
To your specific question. Landlord tenant relationships are not symmetrical, tenants have few other obligations than paying the rent. If a landlord has cancer and they are running a business and not a charity then they should probably have a contingent arrangement for the management of the property if they are no longer capable of doing so.
You suggested earlier that the landlord make it personal. "So if I were you I would sit down with her and try to find out more about her situation beyond her just being late" However, your suggestion to make it personal only goes one way? Your state that landlord should have a contingency plan but the tenant should not have one is ridiculous. IF your contention is to make it personal, it has to go both ways
"In almost no other walk of life do sensible people threaten to terminate relationships as soon as something doesn't go by the book."
If I fail to pay my electric on time....it gets cut off
If I fail to pay my water bill......it gets cut off
Cell phone bill, Insurance and insert all other payments.....they get cut off
If I am on Section 8 housing and I do not go to my appointments or fulfill the requirements.....my benefits get cut off
Can you tell me any contractual agreement that if I do not pay that I do not get terminated ?
- Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes8y
Originally posted by @Greg H.:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @Greg H.:
You seem to be a big tenant advocate on BP. No problem with that. So, what if the situation is reversed and the landlord has cancer and is struggling to pay their bills. Would you also advocate the tenant pay for repairs or paying extra rent ?
If we are going to take this to a personal level, surely it goes both ways, right ?
A sensible employee doesn't threaten to quit every time his employer does something that may contractually entitle him to. That doesn't mean that the employee is an employer advocate.
A sensible employer doesn't threaten to fire an employee every time the employee does something wrong. That doesn't make the employer a charity.
A sensible spouse doesn't threaten divorce or separation every time something goes wrong in the marriage.
In almost no other walk of life do sensible people threaten to terminate relationships as soon as something doesn't go by the book.
A sensible landlord doesn't threaten eviction every time a tenant is late.
It doesn't mean that the business is being run as a charity nor does it mean that such a landlord is a tenant advocate. Neither does it make one a charity or a tenant advocate to recognise that it is in a business's best interest to retain it's customers so routinely threatening to fire them is probably not the best client retention strategy.
To your specific question. Landlord tenant relationships are not symmetrical, tenants have few other obligations than paying the rent. If a landlord has cancer and they are running a business and not a charity then they should probably have a contingent arrangement for the management of the property if they are no longer capable of doing so.
You suggested earlier that the landlord make it personal. "So if I were you I would sit down with her and try to find out more about her situation beyond her just being late" However, your suggestion to make it personal only goes one way? Your state that landlord should have a contingency plan but the tenant should not have one is ridiculous. IF your contention is to make it personal, it has to go both ways
"In almost no other walk of life do sensible people threaten to terminate relationships as soon as something doesn't go by the book."
If I fail to pay my electric on time....it gets cut off
If I fail to pay my water bill......it gets cut off
Cell phone bill, Insurance and insert all other payments.....they get cut off
If I am on Section 8 housing and I do not go to my appointments or fulfill the requirements.....my benefits get cut off
Can you tell me any contractual agreement that if I do not pay that I do not get terminated ?
The word missing from each of your examples is eventually.
Sensible businesses do not jump to the threat of temination as a first, primary or only option.
- Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes8y
Sensible for one business could be hours or days or for others months. Some types of businesses can spread their risk over thousands of accounts and some can not. Does not make either more or less compassionate
I didn't see an answer to the other question as to whether compassion or contingency plans only go one way ?
- Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes8y
Originally posted by @Greg H.:
Sensible for one business could be hours or days or for others months. Some types of businesses can spread their risk over thousands of accounts and some can not. Does not make either more or less compassionate
I didn't see an answer to the other question as to whether compassion or contingency plans only go one way ?
People who are not able to withstand a deviation of days or weeks probably shouldn't be in business.
I answered your other question. Landlord tenant is not a symmetric relationship etc
- Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes8y
Read your state landlord tenant regulations. If you understand how the process works you should know that a landlord issues the pay or quit notice the day following when rent is due. This officially gives "notice" and begins a process to collect or evict. It is by no means a immediate eviction and once issued the tenant is in full control of the direction it takes.
Just to make sure you understand....once the pay or quit is issued the tenant is in control. They may choose to pay, leave or force their landlord to evict them. This is not a landlords decision it is the tenants. Tenants only get evicted if they choose to be evicted.
Responsible indivulaes pay there debts. That's life. No free rides.
- Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes8y
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:
Read your state landlord tenant regulations. If you understand how the process works you should know that a landlord issues the pay or quit notice the day following when rent is due. This officially gives "notice" and begins a process to collect or evict. It is by no means a immediate eviction and once issued the tenant is in full control of the direction it takes.
Just to make sure you understand....once the pay or quit is issued the tenant is in control. They may choose to pay, leave or force their landlord to evict them. This is not a landlords decision it is the tenants. Tenants only get evicted if they choose to be evicted.
Responsible indivulaes pay there debts. That's life. No free rides.
More from the school of Alice in Wonderland Landlording.
That's like saying that the suspect is in full control of the direction of a prosecution once they have been charged by the police.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
One of my tenants has just been diagnosed with cancer. She's been dealing with various health issues that have made paying rent on time a problem. Has anyone dealt with a situation like this? I'm trying to be accommodating, but also have bills to pay.
The tenant having cancer is irrelevant. You need to handle this the same way you handle any other rental payments. Adhere to your contract. If they fail to pay, evict them. End of story.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes8y
I see some folks on this thread are advocating working with the tenant or helping out. While others (including myself) are adamantly against getting personal with the tenant or helping out.
Case & point there is no financial benefit to the landlord to get involved in personal matters or helping the tenant in anyway. Cancer is irrelevant. It's pay rent or be evicted per the lease agreement when looking at this from a purely financial standpoint. There is no sense arguing that helping the tenant out or being compassionate will have anything other than a negative effect on the bottom line.
That said, some folks get more out of their business then just the bottom line. So if anyone wants to be the nice guy or show some compassion that's totally cool. That's their prerogative. They may find more happiness in doing that than making some extra money. Money doesn't mean anything if you can't sleep at night. It just needs to be understood that doing anything other than ignoring the cancer & anything going on in the tenant's life will decrease the profitability of the business.
- Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes8y
Originally posted by @James Wise:
I see some folks on this thread are advocating working with the tenant or helping out. While others (including myself) are adamantly against getting personal with the tenant or helping out.
Case & point there is no financial benefit to the landlord to get involved in personal matters or helping the tenant in anyway. Cancer is irrelevant. It's pay rent or be evicted per the lease agreement when looking at this from a purely financial standpoint. There is no sense arguing that helping the tenant out or being compassionate will have anything other than a negative effect on the bottom line.
That said, some folks get more out of their business then just the bottom line. So if anyone wants to be the nice guy or show some compassion that's totally cool. That's their prerogative. They may find more happiness in doing that than making some extra money. Money doesn't mean anything if you can't sleep at night. It just needs to be understood that doing anything other than ignoring the cancer & anything going on in the tenant's life will decrease the profitability of the business.
The mistake the other side of the argument keep making is that the grounds for willingness to work things out are based on compassion and refusing to acknowledge that it is good business practice to retain your clients.
You evict bad tenants. You try to avoid evicting tenants who may temporarily be in difficulty, because replacing them is expensive and expensive is bad for business.
The charity and compassion arguments are irrelevant red herrings.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
I see some folks on this thread are advocating working with the tenant or helping out. While others (including myself) are adamantly against getting personal with the tenant or helping out.
Case & point there is no financial benefit to the landlord to get involved in personal matters or helping the tenant in anyway. Cancer is irrelevant. It's pay rent or be evicted per the lease agreement when looking at this from a purely financial standpoint. There is no sense arguing that helping the tenant out or being compassionate will have anything other than a negative effect on the bottom line.
That said, some folks get more out of their business then just the bottom line. So if anyone wants to be the nice guy or show some compassion that's totally cool. That's their prerogative. They may find more happiness in doing that than making some extra money. Money doesn't mean anything if you can't sleep at night. It just needs to be understood that doing anything other than ignoring the cancer & anything going on in the tenant's life will decrease the profitability of the business.
The mistake the other side of the argument keep making is that the grounds for willingness to work things out are based on compassion and refusing to acknowledge that it is good business practice to retain your clients.
You evict bad tenants. You try to avoid evicting tenants who may temporarily be in difficulty, because replacing them is expensive and expensive is bad for business.
The charity and compassion arguments are irrelevant red herrings.
Na, disagree with you. From a financial standpoint there is no such thing as working things out in regards to rent payment. That is terrible business practice. It must be paid or they must be evicted immediately. If working it out makes a landlord feel better more power to them. But trying to work something out does not make a landlord anymore money.
- Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes8y
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
I see some folks on this thread are advocating working with the tenant or helping out. While others (including myself) are adamantly against getting personal with the tenant or helping out.
Case & point there is no financial benefit to the landlord to get involved in personal matters or helping the tenant in anyway. Cancer is irrelevant. It's pay rent or be evicted per the lease agreement when looking at this from a purely financial standpoint. There is no sense arguing that helping the tenant out or being compassionate will have anything other than a negative effect on the bottom line.
That said, some folks get more out of their business then just the bottom line. So if anyone wants to be the nice guy or show some compassion that's totally cool. That's their prerogative. They may find more happiness in doing that than making some extra money. Money doesn't mean anything if you can't sleep at night. It just needs to be understood that doing anything other than ignoring the cancer & anything going on in the tenant's life will decrease the profitability of the business.
The mistake the other side of the argument keep making is that the grounds for willingness to work things out are based on compassion and refusing to acknowledge that it is good business practice to retain your clients.
You evict bad tenants. You try to avoid evicting tenants who may temporarily be in difficulty, because replacing them is expensive and expensive is bad for business.
The charity and compassion arguments are irrelevant red herrings.
Na, disagree with you. From a financial standpoint there is no such thing as working things out in regards to rent payment. That is terrible business practice. It must be paid or they must be evicted immediately. If working it out makes a landlord feel better more power to them. But trying to work something out does not make a landlord anymore money.
The reason working things out makes me feel better is that evictions are expensive and done frequently enough can put a landlord out of business.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
I see some folks on this thread are advocating working with the tenant or helping out. While others (including myself) are adamantly against getting personal with the tenant or helping out.
Case & point there is no financial benefit to the landlord to get involved in personal matters or helping the tenant in anyway. Cancer is irrelevant. It's pay rent or be evicted per the lease agreement when looking at this from a purely financial standpoint. There is no sense arguing that helping the tenant out or being compassionate will have anything other than a negative effect on the bottom line.
That said, some folks get more out of their business then just the bottom line. So if anyone wants to be the nice guy or show some compassion that's totally cool. That's their prerogative. They may find more happiness in doing that than making some extra money. Money doesn't mean anything if you can't sleep at night. It just needs to be understood that doing anything other than ignoring the cancer & anything going on in the tenant's life will decrease the profitability of the business.
The mistake the other side of the argument keep making is that the grounds for willingness to work things out are based on compassion and refusing to acknowledge that it is good business practice to retain your clients.
You evict bad tenants. You try to avoid evicting tenants who may temporarily be in difficulty, because replacing them is expensive and expensive is bad for business.
The charity and compassion arguments are irrelevant red herrings.
Na, disagree with you. From a financial standpoint there is no such thing as working things out in regards to rent payment. That is terrible business practice. It must be paid or they must be evicted immediately. If working it out makes a landlord feel better more power to them. But trying to work something out does not make a landlord anymore money.
The reason working things out makes me feel better is that evictions are expensive and done frequently enough can put a landlord out of business.
I understand that is your thought process on the topic. What I am saying though as it doesn't actually work out that way in practice. It's a proven concept that evicting as soon as rent is not paid will result in an overall higher ROI for a landlord then one who "works things out" This is why all large scale rental businesses operate this way.
- Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes8y
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
I see some folks on this thread are advocating working with the tenant or helping out. While others (including myself) are adamantly against getting personal with the tenant or helping out.
Case & point there is no financial benefit to the landlord to get involved in personal matters or helping the tenant in anyway. Cancer is irrelevant. It's pay rent or be evicted per the lease agreement when looking at this from a purely financial standpoint. There is no sense arguing that helping the tenant out or being compassionate will have anything other than a negative effect on the bottom line.
That said, some folks get more out of their business then just the bottom line. So if anyone wants to be the nice guy or show some compassion that's totally cool. That's their prerogative. They may find more happiness in doing that than making some extra money. Money doesn't mean anything if you can't sleep at night. It just needs to be understood that doing anything other than ignoring the cancer & anything going on in the tenant's life will decrease the profitability of the business.
The mistake the other side of the argument keep making is that the grounds for willingness to work things out are based on compassion and refusing to acknowledge that it is good business practice to retain your clients.
You evict bad tenants. You try to avoid evicting tenants who may temporarily be in difficulty, because replacing them is expensive and expensive is bad for business.
The charity and compassion arguments are irrelevant red herrings.
Na, disagree with you. From a financial standpoint there is no such thing as working things out in regards to rent payment. That is terrible business practice. It must be paid or they must be evicted immediately. If working it out makes a landlord feel better more power to them. But trying to work something out does not make a landlord anymore money.
The reason working things out makes me feel better is that evictions are expensive and done frequently enough can put a landlord out of business.
I understand that is your thought process on the topic. What I am saying though as it doesn't actually work out that way in practice. It's a proven concept that evicting as soon as rent is not paid will result in an overall higher ROI for a landlord then one who "works things out" This is why all large scale rental businesses operate this way.
Except that anybody initiating this sort of topic on here is almost certainly not a large scale landlord and so it is bad advice for them.
- Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes8y
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
I see some folks on this thread are advocating working with the tenant or helping out. While others (including myself) are adamantly against getting personal with the tenant or helping out.
Case & point there is no financial benefit to the landlord to get involved in personal matters or helping the tenant in anyway. Cancer is irrelevant. It's pay rent or be evicted per the lease agreement when looking at this from a purely financial standpoint. There is no sense arguing that helping the tenant out or being compassionate will have anything other than a negative effect on the bottom line.
That said, some folks get more out of their business then just the bottom line. So if anyone wants to be the nice guy or show some compassion that's totally cool. That's their prerogative. They may find more happiness in doing that than making some extra money. Money doesn't mean anything if you can't sleep at night. It just needs to be understood that doing anything other than ignoring the cancer & anything going on in the tenant's life will decrease the profitability of the business.
The mistake the other side of the argument keep making is that the grounds for willingness to work things out are based on compassion and refusing to acknowledge that it is good business practice to retain your clients.
You evict bad tenants. You try to avoid evicting tenants who may temporarily be in difficulty, because replacing them is expensive and expensive is bad for business.
The charity and compassion arguments are irrelevant red herrings.
Na, disagree with you. From a financial standpoint there is no such thing as working things out in regards to rent payment. That is terrible business practice. It must be paid or they must be evicted immediately. If working it out makes a landlord feel better more power to them. But trying to work something out does not make a landlord anymore money.
The reason working things out makes me feel better is that evictions are expensive and done frequently enough can put a landlord out of business.
I understand that is your thought process on the topic. What I am saying though as it doesn't actually work out that way in practice. It's a proven concept that evicting as soon as rent is not paid will result in an overall higher ROI for a landlord then one who "works things out" This is why all large scale rental businesses operate this way.
Except that anybody initiating this sort of topic on here is almost certainly not a large scale business so none of those considerations apply.
I run a $50M+ portfolio, so there's that.......I'm sure many other BP members run even bigger businesses than that. Even if they didn't if one way is proven to work better I'd imagine that one would want to use that way no matter the size of their portfolio.
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Thomas S.:
Business or charity. Decide. Fact is you should not be getting personally involved in your tenants lives. Keep everything strictly business. Having cancer and pay rent late should not be related. Rent first.
I had a similar situation with a tenant dying of cancer and he stopped paying rent. Served him with a eviction notice and the s.o.b died before I could evict. Frustrating to say the least. Fortunately I was able to force the estate to pay rent owed and my expenses for filing the eviction.
You should not ever involve emotions in business or you will always be on the losing end financially.
My policy is ..S**t happens, nothing I can do about it, pay your rent first then I will see what I can do.
Thomas thats a little harsh don't you think ??? i get the business part of it but being frustrated about not being able to serve someone who passed.. thats a little over the top
- Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes8y
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Ihe O.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
I see some folks on this thread are advocating working with the tenant or helping out. While others (including myself) are adamantly against getting personal with the tenant or helping out.
Case & point there is no financial benefit to the landlord to get involved in personal matters or helping the tenant in anyway. Cancer is irrelevant. It's pay rent or be evicted per the lease agreement when looking at this from a purely financial standpoint. There is no sense arguing that helping the tenant out or being compassionate will have anything other than a negative effect on the bottom line.
That said, some folks get more out of their business then just the bottom line. So if anyone wants to be the nice guy or show some compassion that's totally cool. That's their prerogative. They may find more happiness in doing that than making some extra money. Money doesn't mean anything if you can't sleep at night. It just needs to be understood that doing anything other than ignoring the cancer & anything going on in the tenant's life will decrease the profitability of the business.
The mistake the other side of the argument keep making is that the grounds for willingness to work things out are based on compassion and refusing to acknowledge that it is good business practice to retain your clients.
You evict bad tenants. You try to avoid evicting tenants who may temporarily be in difficulty, because replacing them is expensive and expensive is bad for business.
The charity and compassion arguments are irrelevant red herrings.
Na, disagree with you. From a financial standpoint there is no such thing as working things out in regards to rent payment. That is terrible business practice. It must be paid or they must be evicted immediately. If working it out makes a landlord feel better more power to them. But trying to work something out does not make a landlord anymore money.
The reason working things out makes me feel better is that evictions are expensive and done frequently enough can put a landlord out of business.
I understand that is your thought process on the topic. What I am saying though as it doesn't actually work out that way in practice. It's a proven concept that evicting as soon as rent is not paid will result in an overall higher ROI for a landlord then one who "works things out" This is why all large scale rental businesses operate this way.
Except that anybody initiating this sort of topic on here is almost certainly not a large scale business so none of those considerations apply.
I run a $50M+ portfolio, so there's that.......I'm sure many other BP members run even bigger businesses than that. Even if they didn't if one way is proven to work better I'd imagine that one would want to use that way no matter the size of their portfolio.
Well you are wrong. Mom and pop shops don't thrive by aping every aspect of the way big businesses operate. That is also a proven concept.
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @James Wise:
I see some folks on this thread are advocating working with the tenant or helping out. While others (including myself) are adamantly against getting personal with the tenant or helping out.
Case & point there is no financial benefit to the landlord to get involved in personal matters or helping the tenant in anyway. Cancer is irrelevant. It's pay rent or be evicted per the lease agreement when looking at this from a purely financial standpoint. There is no sense arguing that helping the tenant out or being compassionate will have anything other than a negative effect on the bottom line.
That said, some folks get more out of their business then just the bottom line. So if anyone wants to be the nice guy or show some compassion that's totally cool. That's their prerogative. They may find more happiness in doing that than making some extra money. Money doesn't mean anything if you can't sleep at night. It just needs to be understood that doing anything other than ignoring the cancer & anything going on in the tenant's life will decrease the profitability of the business.
Or you can look at it as a form of Charity that year.. its not like this happens often.. i get your position Jim you work at the pleasure of your clients its not your decision.. But for me if this was one of my tenants you already know what i would do if I knew for certain someone had terminal cancer.. they would simply be my chairty for that period of time.. Heck i let people stop paying rent if it gets too cold and they cant heat the house .... I can see the undercapitalized landlord though freaking out.. they are in a no win position.. if you cant stay afloat missing 3 yo 6 months of rent your in bigger hot water than you realize regardless.
- Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes8y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @James Wise:
I see some folks on this thread are advocating working with the tenant or helping out. While others (including myself) are adamantly against getting personal with the tenant or helping out.
Case & point there is no financial benefit to the landlord to get involved in personal matters or helping the tenant in anyway. Cancer is irrelevant. It's pay rent or be evicted per the lease agreement when looking at this from a purely financial standpoint. There is no sense arguing that helping the tenant out or being compassionate will have anything other than a negative effect on the bottom line.
That said, some folks get more out of their business then just the bottom line. So if anyone wants to be the nice guy or show some compassion that's totally cool. That's their prerogative. They may find more happiness in doing that than making some extra money. Money doesn't mean anything if you can't sleep at night. It just needs to be understood that doing anything other than ignoring the cancer & anything going on in the tenant's life will decrease the profitability of the business.
Or you can look at it as a form of Charity that year.. its not like this happens often.. i get your position Jim you work at the pleasure of your clients its not your decision.. But for me if this was one of my tenants you already know what i would do if I knew for certain someone had terminal cancer.. they would simply be my chairty for that period of time.. Heck i let people stop paying rent if it gets too cold and they cant heat the house .... I can see the undercapitalized landlord though freaking out.. they are in a no win position.. if you cant stay afloat missing 3 yo 6 months of rent your in bigger hot water than you realize regardless.
Note though how this thing has been escalated.
The OP never said the tenant had terminal cancer and never said she was a non-payer, just that she was late.
- Investor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2014 · 360 posts · 354 votes8y
I tell all my tenants you are under lease. With that said if your situation changes and you can not honor the payments or duration call me or send me an email. We can figure out a transition plan. Because lets be honest once someone stops paying you that money will never be recouped. I ruin their credit and don't get my money. Then I have watch my back too? I'm not going through that for at best $1000, it cost $1000 to evict someone in my State.
So settling the matter favorable to all parties is best.
Tell them if you cant afford your lease I'll release you, I've released people for way less than terminal illness.
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