Gun control for tenants?
Los Angeles , CA · Member since 2018 · 32 posts · 22 votes
I recently heard Kathy Fettke talk about this on her podcast. I’ve yet to purchase my first rental property, though I am taking steps towards accomplishing that goal, and it’s one question I hadn’t even thought of. I’m not a gun person (I’ve never even fired one, let alone own one), but I’ve always considered myself to be supportive of 2nd Amendment. But as I think about being a future landlord, I don’t how I would feel about allowing tenants to pack heat lol. How does the BP community feel about this? Do any of you prohibit guns in your rental units? How do state laws affect what you can or cannot say about guns in your leases?
It's not really your business either way. The tenants might also (gasp) have sex outside of wedlock on your property -- also not your business. Who knows, they could even potentially be vegans. Who cares, and why would you care? The vegan could stab you to death with a carrot slicer, or the gun owner could shoot you with a gun, or the [obscene sexual reference here that leads to death], and you're just as dead in any of these three cases. No point in worrying about this, it's a waste of your IQ points and time.
I understand what you’re trying to say, but late rent is pretty hard to “hide.” Unless you’re rummaging through every square inch of a tenants house/apartment, finding a gun can be extremely difficult. And yes, there are occasions where tenants can be reckless and leave a gun out, but they’re most likely a person who shouldn’t have one in the first place. Responsible gun owners keep them locked away in a safe where only they can access them. By having a no gun policy, you’re only keeping responsible gun owners out of your properties. Criminals do not follow rules/laws, so they aren’t going to care if you allow guns or not.
You keep criminal out of your property with criminal background checks.
A no guns policy is because I don't want guns or people who will brings guns in my rental whether they are responsible or not. I'm not going to rummage through looking for one but I want a policy in place that allows me to remove a tenant if I encounter one and I want a tenant to know that before they sign on to rent from me.
I'm happy that there are landlords who will allow guns because that means gun owners don't need to rent from me.
Different analogy for you. Just because the police are not going to go door to door rummaging for crime it doesn't mean there is no point in having laws.
Actually, the police are ALWAYS looking for crime. It’s their job to do so. They don’t just sit around at the station and wait for a call. They are out patrolling, being proactive against crime.
The police need probable cause and a search warrant before they can search your home.
Correct. And you also need to give notice before entering a tenant's apartment which gives them ample time to hide their guns.
But just because police need probable cause and a search warrant doesn't mean they aren't looking for crime in public areas where they are patrolling on a daily basis.
You cannot search a tenants home period.
https://www.landlordology.com/implied-covenant-quiet-enjoyment/
I never said search. I said enter.
Enter to search for a gun. Bruv I am done with this.
My lease has a strict zero-tolerance crime policy that include no drugs as defined by section 102 of the Federal Controlled Substance Act. Although medical marijuana is legal in Florida, it's not at the Federal level and anyone who is legally using medical marijuana here is not allowed to buy a gun from a licensed gun dealer (this was a news headline recently after the Federal background check form was changed by the current administration).
My lease also requires my landlord to give a 24-hour notice of entry unless there is an emergency. I'm required to notify the landlord if anything looks amiss (such as moisture, mold, or bedbugs).
The brainteaser question is what happens if the landlord legitimately enters the premises because of a maintenance emergency (or otherwise valid reason) and happens to notice something that violates the lease?
Common sense tells me the tenant will likely be held in material breach of the lease and dealt with based on the terms of the lease (charged with the cleanup, eviction, possibly turned over to the authorities, whatever).
FYI -- I don't see any clause in my lease prohibiting a firearm. But there are quality-of-life items such as not annoying, endangering, or harassing other residents. The presence of a controlled substance is hard evidence, while these other items are not so clearly defined. A responsible gun owner will probably never let others know about the gun in the first place. Who wants to risk being burglarized by someone who knows there is a gun in the unit?
@Marvin Barrera it is unconstitutional. Please stay in L.A.
The brainteaser question is what happens if the landlord legitimately enters the premises because of a maintenance emergency (or otherwise valid reason) and happens to notice something that violates the lease?
and that is how I have discovered guns, weed and unmentioned pets in my rentals. No searching or rummaging was necessary.
The brainteaser question is what happens if the landlord legitimately enters the premises because of a maintenance emergency (or otherwise valid reason) and happens to notice something that violates the lease?
No brain-teaser, you issue notice of intent to terminate the lease due to noncompliance. If you aren't willing to do that for "X" item, "X" shouldn't be in your lease. No "well they pay on time for the past 3 years", no "but they haven't called me even once with a complaint and are paying above market". If you have something in your lease, you should enforce it. Otherwise you need to reflect on if it really needs to be in your lease and if so, you need to hire someone to ensure enforcement if you aren't willing to do so yourself.
I understand what you’re trying to say, but late rent is pretty hard to “hide.” Unless you’re rummaging through every square inch of a tenants house/apartment, finding a gun can be extremely difficult. And yes, there are occasions where tenants can be reckless and leave a gun out, but they’re most likely a person who shouldn’t have one in the first place. Responsible gun owners keep them locked away in a safe where only they can access them. By having a no gun policy, you’re only keeping responsible gun owners out of your properties. Criminals do not follow rules/laws, so they aren’t going to care if you allow guns or not.
You keep criminal out of your property with criminal background checks.
A no guns policy is because I don't want guns or people who will brings guns in my rental whether they are responsible or not. I'm not going to rummage through looking for one but I want a policy in place that allows me to remove a tenant if I encounter one and I want a tenant to know that before they sign on to rent from me.
I'm happy that there are landlords who will allow guns because that means gun owners don't need to rent from me.
Different analogy for you. Just because the police are not going to go door to door rummaging for crime it doesn't mean there is no point in having laws.
Actually, the police are ALWAYS looking for crime. It’s their job to do so. They don’t just sit around at the station and wait for a call. They are out patrolling, being proactive against crime.
The police need probable cause and a search warrant before they can search your home.
Correct. And you also need to give notice before entering a tenant's apartment which gives them ample time to hide their guns.
But just because police need probable cause and a search warrant doesn't mean they aren't looking for crime in public areas where they are patrolling on a daily basis.
You cannot search a tenants home period.
I never said search. I said enter.
Enter to search for a gun. Bruv I am done with this.
I wasn't saying to search for anything. I meant you need to give notice to enter for any matter (maintenance, monthly/bi-monthly/yearly inspection, etc). It seems as though you found things that violated your lease when doing basic maintenance or whatever, not "searching" for anything. My point was that if a tenant knows the LL is coming, they are most likely going to try to hide whatever isn't allowed...(pets, un allowed "guests", smoking, guns, etc.).
The brainteaser question is what happens if the landlord legitimately enters the premises because of a maintenance emergency (or otherwise valid reason) and happens to notice something that violates the lease?
No brain-teaser, you issue notice of intent to terminate the lease due to noncompliance. If you aren't willing to do that for "X" item, "X" shouldn't be in your lease. No "well they pay on time for the past 3 years", no "but they haven't called me even once with a complaint and are paying above market". If you have something in your lease, you should enforce it. Otherwise you need to reflect on if it really needs to be in your lease and if so, you need to hire someone to ensure enforcement if you aren't willing to do so yourself.
Not even the law works like that. There is stuff on statute that nobody ever gets prosecuted for.
The reason stuff really needs to be in the lease is for the day when you really need the protection it offers.
I wouldn't put it in my lease personally. I prefer to be as competitive as possible. I want a large stack of applications so I can skim the top of the stack for the best applications. I want the best tenants, period. Why would I restrict my ability to get as many applications as possible so that I can pick the most qualified tenant? What if the best qualified tenant is a police officer that owns a gun personally? I am not going to pick a less qualified tenant just because they own a gun.
The trouble with best qualified tenants is that they do not stay in your house for long because they can just as easily qualify for somebody else's rental. That's why I don't want them.
If qualified tenants are not staying with you long, perhaps you are doing something to alienate them?
The marijuana argument doesn’t really hold any weight. Marijuana is still illegal at the federal level while owning a firearm is legal at the federal level (for most people). If you have a loan on your rental property it’s most likely with a federally regulated bank that must follow federal laws. If they found out you were renting a property that they provided a loan for, for something illegal at the federal level, there could be some issues!
OK. Does owning a pet violate any constitutional provision or amendment. Are you going to argue that landlords should have to accept them.
Owning a pet is not a right given to people under the U.S. Constitution.
@Anthony Dooley Gun owners are not a protected class and the Constitution in this case does not apply to contracts between private citizens. He is well within his rights to ban firearms from any property he owns.
Also, he asks some honest questions and you come back with "please stay in LA" Not cool and not what BP is about.
@Bill F. thanks for your opinion. You can put whatever you want on the lease, but that doesn't make it enforceable by law. Maybe in LA, but nowhere else that I have lived.
@Anthony Dooley not my opinion, its the law, which you obviously haven't read.
Your own state's concealed carry law make it legal for a landlord to exclude gun possession on private property:
"O.C.G.A.§ 16 -11-127:... provided, however, that private property owners or persons in legal control of private property through a lease, rental agreement, licensing agreement, contract, or any other agreement to control access to such private property shall have the right to exclude or eject a person who is in possession of a weapon or long gun on their private property.."
This report may help clear up any confusion.
@Gerald Peters the Constitution only says what the US Gov can and cannot do. A private property owner limiting a tenants ability to posses a firearm within the property does not limit that person's overall ability to posses a firearm in the way that the 2nd Amendment refers to.
@Bill F. concealed carry laws do not apply to owning and possessing a firearm in your residence.
@Anthony Dooley I really want to agree with you on this one, but then we'd both be wrong.
Did you read the report I linked to or the five lines of of Georgia's law?
First, what law or judicial opinion do you have to back up your assertion that concealed carry laws do not apply to owning a possessing a firearm in your residence? Second, the operative words in your unsubstantiated statement is your residence, which implies possession or ownership, since its the possessive form of you. In a rental, the applicant (the person having the gun) doesn't own the property.
From the 2016 Institute of Realty Management Report:
"If property managers are seeking to completely ban concealed weapons on their properties, they should consider revising their lease provisions to include such language, as clearly and specifically as possible. Most states have no regulations prohibiting landlords from banning firearms on their properties."
The only state having a law guaranteeing tenants the right to posses firearms in rentals is Minnesota.
@Bill F. I live in GA. Your residence is where you reside (live). In GA, as well as NC, you can own a firearm without obtaining a concealed carry permit. Concealed carry laws are restrictive and they apply to, wait for it.... carrying concealed. Even with a permit, there are places that you are not allowed to carry a firearm. Having a gun in your place of residence is not carrying concealed. Transporting a firearm in an automobile is also not concealed carry when done in accordance with the law. Please do not give out legal advice. Good day.
@Anthony Dooley since you like the red herring of concealed carry and miss the forest through the trees, how about this.
"If there's no state law that says they are prohibited from limiting guns, then the default would be that as a private landlord, you can prohibit any activities on your property that you want, other than those that might discriminate under discrimination laws," Skojec says" (Michael Skojec, senior counsel at Ballard Spahr LLP, a law firm specializing in litigation on behalf of property owners, developers and property management regarding real estate and fair housing.)
Or this: "Generally a private landlord can make a decision about whether to say "no guns in my apartments," unless a state forbids landlords from banning guns in apartments or rental property, according to Denny Dobbins, general legal counsel and vice president of RentPerfect.com."
Three is a lucky number:
"No private party can ban you from owning a gun. However, if you rent your home, your landlord might be able to prevent you and other tenants from bringing, or keeping, a gun in your own home. Also, know that you can be evicted for possessing a gun if your rental or lease agreement prohibits it.
While the Second Amendment does protect the rights of gun owners, it only protects those rights from governmental intrusion, just like the First Amendment and free speech. This means that unless your landlord is a governmental entity, like a city, or state, agency, or receives state or federal funding for rental assistance on your property, the Second Amendment is unlikely to apply."
QED: The 2nd Amendment doesn't apply to landlord's restricting firearms within their rentals and, generally speaking, the vast majority of states do not have laws explicitly curtailing that right for landlords.
Have a great Monday.
I showed my rental this weekend (renters are still living there) and I didn't notice that on top of the current tenant's gun safe was a few shotgun shells and there was a crossbow in the corner. The new potential renter pointed them out to me and I just said those items are not included in the lease.
I had this question come in from a prospective tenant once and I simply told him that he needs to follow proper safety precautions just as if it were his own home. I told him he should have the guns locked up in a safe place, gun locks on the triggers, for his safety as well as anyone who may visit him. His specific inquiry was with regards to hunting but I would hold the same stance for any other reason. If they are responsible adults that I determine are worthy of renting my apartment I should be able to trust them to take care of a gun safely as well. Just my opinion on the matter.
I actually asked Rocketlawyer with this question as My properties are in Ohio. An attorney from Ohio responded back that I am not allow to restrict guns on my tenants, as a matter of fact even their visitors are allowed to pack. So there you have it. Hmmmm....