SFR Investor · South Bend, IN · Member since 2013 · 342 posts · 56 votes
New property managers moved a tenant moved into a rental house I own on May 2. I do a drive-by and talk to the neighbors about how my properties are going about once a year or two, as I'm an out of state owner, and I did this last weekend. Turns out the first day the tenants were there, they claim they closed the front door and the window just fell out. Thought it sounded suspicious so talked to the neighbors. Neighbors report the tenants had a wild, drunken party and they said they thought a drunk person on the porch fell through the window, which it does look like.
The neighbors also report that the tenants are "really wild" (a neighbor's son hung out with them) and "stepped right off the Jerry Springer show," and they can't imagine these people will stick around for that long.
I am concerned that the proper background checks were not done - am I within my rights to ask to see the paperwork for these checks that they claimed they do on all tenants? I understand credit reports can be sticky but what about rental history, references, etc?
Beyond this, I feel there was a failure in judgement as well. If multiple neighbors detected the same thing about these people, how did my property manager miss it and hand them an application in the first place? There is one name on the rental portal for the lease, but neighbors say 2-4 people are living there. There were 3 junked out cars in the driveway as well. I am going to talk to the property manager tonight (as well as discuss the shoddy nature of the repair - just a small piece of wood attached that didn't even cover half of the broken window on the door leaving the house exposed, and had been that way for a week and a half when I saw it). I obviously would like to find out what is going on and to see whatever paperwork I am in my rights to view.
As an aside, these property managers were recommended to me by a friend and of course had stellar references.
Rental Property Investor · Everywhere, USA · Member since 2012 · 689 posts · 525 votes
8y
@Amie D. - It is very possible they just signed the first person they could, or relaxed the criteria, or didn't try or didn't at all verify their previous rental. Or the previous owner could have just said they were great tenants to get rid of them. Lots of things could have happened.
Make sure to have your PM send notices about damage, and excessive noise if there is a clause in your lease. Basically get them to start documenting everything.
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
8y
@Ray Harrell The Landlord owns the product. I provide the service.
I have a written agreement that specifically authorizes me to handle everything, without input from the Landlord. I set the rental criteria, not the owner. When I "act on behalf of the owner" I am actually telling the owner how I will handle things and they either jump on board or go to someone else. This idea that Landlords know how to manage property better than Property Managers is false. The majority of my owners have better properties and make more money than they did before hiring me.
If you hire a good PM, your only responsibility to "manage the PM" is to review your reports each month and occasionally cross-check their work. If you have to question every move they make, you haven't hired a true manager; you've hired a glorified assistant.
I don't understand why anyone would hire a professional and then try to tell them how to do their job. It's like handing your money over to a mutual fund manager and then telling him what they should invest in or requiring them to call you and discuss options before taking action. You won't find a successful investment manager that does that.
"If both the new property manager you just hired and the tenants they found are showing red flags and you’d blow it off and say “meh, whatever” and not check on your properties ever - plus ignore an easy resource to find out what’s really going on - different business model I suppose.."
Nope I would simply fire them and go back to my original statement. I won't have a property manager I trust with my investment less than the neighbors. I refuse to micromanage people who I pay to perform tasks. If the results are not what I want, I get somebody else next time (or remove them early if the results are not acceptable). It is the results I care about not the method they use to get there.
You are looking at keeping someone on who you are going to watch perform every task and question it. If that's the case do it yourself. Regardless if there was or wasn't a party. If the tenants looked good or did not look good on paper, you do not trust your property manager. You found things you did not like. The answer is simple..... find someone you do trust. You appear to be taking this as a personal slight. It is not intended that way, far from it.
I honestly do wish you the best with your property. From what I am reading you do not believe it is being taken care of how you would like. If that's the case, I do not see a reason to go digging for paperwork, double checking work or building a case. Just get someone who you trust to handle that asset.
Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 930 votes
8y
@Nathan Gesner, it's not a matter of telling them how to do their job, it's a matter of having access to documents related to YOUR tenant in YOUR property. If something goes awry with YOUR tenant, the PM is not on the hook. The property owner is. Having a PM doesn't insulate the owner from any liability or responsibility.
SOME landlords know how to manage properties better than PMs. Maybe you are great at what you do, but my observations from real people, and even on this forum, indicate that about half of PMs aren't worth a dime! My first experience with a PM company almost cost me my property. Now I have "a guy" managing it and he does much better.
"If both the new property manager you just hired and the tenants they found are showing red flags and you’d blow it off and say “meh, whatever” and not check on your properties ever - plus ignore an easy resource to find out what’s really going on - different business model I suppose.."
Nope I would simply fire them and go back to my original statement. I won't have a property manager I trust with my investment less than the neighbors. I refuse to micromanage people who I pay to perform tasks. If the results are not what I want, I get somebody else next time (or remove them early if the results are not acceptable). It is the results I care about not the method they use to get there.
You are looking at keeping someone on who you are going to watch perform every task and question it. If that's the case do it yourself. Regardless if there was or wasn't a party. If the tenants looked good or did not look good on paper, you do not trust your property manager. You found things you did not like. The answer is simple..... find someone you do trust. You appear to be taking this as a personal slight. It is not intended that way, far from it.
I honestly do wish you the best with your property. From what I am reading you do not believe it is being taken care of how you would like. If that's the case, I do not see a reason to go digging for paperwork, double checking work or building a case. Just get someone who you trust to handle that asset.
@Mike Cumbie if you do not ever go visit your properties, how do you know if they are managing them right or not? Especially a new manager to you? You just notice something might be off and then fire them without finding what’s going on? Maybe that works for you, but I find leaving properties for years and just believing the property manager will handle it is a recipe for disaster. At the same time if there are irregularities I am going to do my best to find out what is really going on. Maybe there is something or maybe is was a miscommunication. I’m not going to fly off the handle and fire when I don’t know what’s really going on yet.
Same with blindly trusting a property manager or new tenant. You may not trust/like/know the people that live around your properties, but one of the first things taught in an MBA program isn’t so much business but that your relationships and network are key. The neighbors are part of my network. Not only do they help me with existing rentals, they have tipped me off to other properties I may want to talk to to buy in the neighborhood. Why? Because they know me personally and know I care about keeping up my properties and not bringing anyone in who will be a problem. Sure some people see properties as a cash cow as long as the payments go in, they might not care about the method - the house can look like crap for years, renters could be an annoying nuisance to the entire neighborhood - maybe fine for them, but that’s not me or the mission of my company. Sure I want to make money but also value maintaining quality places to live, as well respecting the quality of the community and neighborhoods I’m involved in.
It is not only me, but love him or hate him (and not trying to make this political either way) Donald Trump visits his properties as well, talks to people and sees how it’s going. So does Jeff Bezos of Amazon. He will stop into his businesses, buy things, talk to the workers and customers, ask them how things are doing. If they see anything off, corrections are made. Brian Chesky, Airbnb’s CEO, will do the same to see how things are going. Richard Branson of Virgin Airlines. I could go on and on. Again, perhaps it’s not the way you do your thing but that’s fine.
And no, not taking it personally however when someone who doesn’t know anything about me, the full situation or the way I run my business starts typing with verbosity that, “you are doing this, you believe this, you are going to do this” (when I’m not...) etc, based on a question I posted online - I find it a bit odd.
