Publicly SHAMING an evicted former Tenant? Do it or not?

Publicly SHAMING an evicted former Tenant? Do it or not?

Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2015 · 769 posts · 279 votes

I've been a landlord since 2006.  Up until now I've never had to evict a tenant.  I've had people owe me what I would consider decent sums of money however always treated those tenants with respect from our first interaction to the last and I've always been paid back even when I didn't expect to.

My cherry was finally popped and I had a tenant I was forced to evict.  I'm not sure why - but he chose to appear in court to fight the eviction - the attorney assured me he has nothing to stand on and the "trial" is set for this coming Monday - curious as to whether or not he shows up.

That being said I'm from the midwest and most people in KS and in general in states touching us operate different than other places - we can still at times do business on a handshake and a man/woman's word.  I've lived on the East cost and had culture shock when I moved there a few years ago as it is completely different there.  Anyways when we started to have issues with  him I gave him multiple, multiple opportunities to work this out like gentlemen between us.  

The man is a pathological liar as well as his dirtbag family.  He's a Captain in the military and in his 40's and has been using the military card to get people to kiss his butt and I'm assuming getting away with scamming people like me.  Well he didnt expect me to take a stand and fight against his bullying so after he tried to stiff me for another months rent so eviction court we went.  We have control of the house back as I had reports from the neighbors he moved out and he also text messaged me he left as well as was shutting off the utilities - so per the attorney that was justifiable enough to change the locks.

So - some of the damage I was aware of due to a couple inspections on the house - last time I was in it was April - 

This house was immaculate from top to bottom and I'd finished it in high end finishes as this was the house my wife/I lived in and as I continued my RE career in Wichita I wanted it to be a show piece to other folks I'd do business with I knew what I was doing.  We didnt even finish the remodeling until after we moved and purchased our business out of town.  So everything in the house was new from windows, to curtains, curtain rods, appliances (a couple we never used) granite countertops, custom kitchen cabinets (beech wood - very hard wood)  fancy backsplash, doors, HIGH END custom trim, flooring the 33 cubic yards of concrete for patio/driveway etc.  

In 6 months they broke 3 light fixtures - I had reports their kids were spraying a garden hose from the outside of the house into the kitchen, broke a large kitchen cabinet door, broke several plastic pieces of a new higher end Fridge, fist sized hole in the wall, carpet stains and the entire house may need another repaint, damaged woodwork, scratched kitchen cabinets, stole the curtain rods, curtains my wife spent a lot of time picking out stolen, destroyed the back yard - let the weeds grow several feet tall in the flower beds etc.  

So given my track record of vetting tenants I'd been good - this guy is a pathological liar and a sociopath so he was able to pull one over on me - glad he's out.

That being said I'm debating pulling photos from their FB pages and coupling them with photos of how he left the house, and putting FB posts in several local landlord forums, social shaming forums, and then paying $100 to advertise their misdeeds on FB, post the post on his military command's FB page, email it to their media relations etc - my whole reasoning is obviously I'm angry I was lied to, and to me the biggest deal of all is trust was broken which where I live is a HUGE deal and by the time this is done he's going to owe around $3-5k which to me is not an insignificant amount of money and I know with his Captains salary and BAH he can more than afford to pay me back.   

Part of me thinks I'm wanting to do this due to being betrayed but the other part of me is that he has a bullying mentality (he's a very large built imposing military man) and I dont think anyone has ever stood up to him and it's time to take a stand.  The second motivation for doing this is to motivate him to speak to me and work out a payment plan so as I remove the posts. 

Please give opinions to the ramifications of doing this and if it's a bad idea - due to our US societies love affair with the military I'm afraid this can backfire on me - if he wasn't in the military I wouldn't have second thoughts.  (No offense to the military folks on here - my dad was in for 17 years and many other family members have served - however the current military folks are far different from the old school ones and feel it's everyones right to kiss their butt and they can get away with anything - dont get me wrong there's a lot of good ones and they outnumber the bad by far - but we cant dispute today's generation is far different than many years ago)

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Rental Property Investor · Torrance, CA · Member since 2016 · 724 posts · 1k+ votes
8y
I think you are letting emotions guide your decision making process, and in business that is never a good idea. What financial benefit will shaming him bring? Absolutely none. If it doesn’t bring a financial benefit it’s a waste of time and energy. The attorney said he has zero ground to stand on in this case. Make sure you keep it that way. Don’t give him anything to sue you for....like defamation of character. Beat him in court, lick your wounds and move on. I know it’s hard not to take it personal, but that’s what professionals have to do. Don’t act like your tenant.
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  • Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2015 · 769 posts · 279 votes
    8y

    So as this plays out Ill update the thread on my success in getting my money back.

    Here are the military statutes that will apply in his case and the steps in garnishing his military wages:

    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title10/...

    Art 133 is what pertains

    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title10/...

    Art 129 - a police report will be filed Monday when I'm in town

    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title10/...

    Art 123a for his 1 bounced rental payment

    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title10/...

    the insinuation he broke 112A as he or his family were smoking weed in the basement (I dont really care - the precedent is set no smoking inside - they chose to break that and most definitely him or his adult step daughter or wife or his step daughters live in boyfriend were smoking pot in the basement a lot - the bathroom wreaks of it)

    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title10/...

    Art 109 - destruction of property other than govt

    Link to all the codes if someone needs to bring a case against a military person

    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/search/pagedetails.actio...

    https://www.daig.pentagon.mil/faq.aspx

    Link to Inspector General to file complaint against an enlisted Army personnel

    (though they recommend you attempt to handle w local command first)

    Most importantly for another poster in this thread - directions on how to garnish full time military personnel wages

    https://www.dfas.mil/garnishment/milcommdebt/debtc...

    Lastly - link to the forms - with full instructions on how to insure garnishment is successful

    http://www.esd.whs.mil/Directives/forms/dd2500_299...

    (This is the actual form you need)

    http://www.esd.whs.mil/Portals/54/Documents/DD/for...

    The only thing I have left to do is obtain emails for one or two of his higher ups - I'll be in Wichita most of next week and will have plenty of time to do this.  Staying at a relatives place as I have other unrelated business to attend to and they dont live far from the base so will be easy to stop by.

  • Member since 2018 · 22 posts · 12 votes
    8y

    Shane H. You’re making a business decision but I don’t get what going on FB does for you?

    You bought property to be a landlord. Now you’re one. This is just part of it. 

    I’d suggest given what you wrote about your past experiences with this tenant and other that you focus on a better processs of tenant selection. 

    My guess is this isn’t the first time this Captain has done this so there were signs to look for along with other non paying tenants you’ve had. 

    Part of the reason people back East as you call us rarely can do transactions on a handshake anymore is exactly this reason. What are we suppose to do go on FB or whatever and report it to the Internet? Complete waste of time, energy and thought. 

    Like I said you wanted to be a landlord and maybe this will be some type of lesson for you. He’s not going to change and you’re not going to change him or anyone else. Many are not cut out to be landlords. If a couple of thousand dollars bothers you that much then maybe it’s not for you. This situation is just a line item on a spreadsheet marked cost of doing business. 

    I’d think at the very least about getting a property manager and focusing on building your portfolio of properties if you’re going to be a landlord for a living. You’re way too emotionally tied up in the day to day. 

    Just my two cents...

  • Rental Property Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 401 posts · 221 votes
    8y
    If he has a government job, you might be able to ask for compensation & collect them. Just follow the law suit, document, and ask the judge for compensation.
  • Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2015 · 769 posts · 279 votes
    8y

    This will also apply - when taking the military member to court for a judgement - make sure you read this and follow the guidelines

    https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/crt/legacy/2011/03/23/scratext.pdf

  • Fairway, KS · Member since 2018 · 82 posts · 28 votes
    8y

    You may or may not have been doing this long enough to know that there is nothing gained by any display of disapproval outside of an eventual call for a reference.

    You should start to operate like anyone is a ticking time bomb and remember that you don't want that to explode near you.

  • Member since 2018 · 1 post · 0 votes
    8y

    Being a landlord is being in business. I can't imagine a business, Let's say Target going after an unruly customer to publicly humiliate them.  They might use the law, as you have done, to remedy the issue. To "shame" a person would only escalate what is already a bad situation into a highly charged, emotional and personal vendetta. Who can predict how that would eventually turn out?

    Take the high road and move on.

  • Rental Property Investor · Hutchinson, MN · Member since 2018 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    8y
    @Shane H. You dont need to publicly shame him, get into contact with his chain of command, captain isnt the highest rung on the ladder when it comes to officers in the military, and they hold all of us to higher standards than the picture you painted here, also talk to a former JAG lawyer or possibly even current JAG (Army Lawyer) on his post to see what kind of Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) actions you can initate, that would be a better approach and a way to possibly get the military on your side helping you to forcibly get what your owed either through garnishment etc
  • Real Estate Agent · Santa Rosa, CA · Member since 2018 · 84 posts · 105 votes
    8y
    @Shane H. Your integrity is everything, do the right thing and be the better person even when it’s difficult. Good luck!
  • Investor · Suwanee, GA · Member since 2015 · 114 posts · 24 votes
    8y

    Act and Handle this professionally and legally.  Law and judge be the decision maker and ultimately he will have an eviction in his records. He dont have any ground to stand. I am going through a similar situation. The tenant was a fraud and he gave me deposit and rent checks which returned back in April. Since April, I went to Court 3 times because in between he filed for bankruptcy which cost me another $1000. 

    Long story short, the tenant is still staying in the house with out paying a single penny for last 4 months. At last Court ordered favoring me last week and $3500 in penalty. I am looking forward for the writ and the Sherif to kick him out.  That will be my happy day..

  • Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2015 · 769 posts · 279 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Dan Tessman:
    @Shane H. You dont need to publicly shame him, get into contact with his chain of command, captain isnt the highest rung on the ladder when it comes to officers in the military, and they hold all of us to higher standards than the picture you painted here, also talk to a former JAG lawyer or possibly even current JAG (Army Lawyer) on his post to see what kind of Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) actions you can initate, that would be a better approach and a way to possibly get the military on your side helping you to forcibly get what your owed either through garnishment etc

    Thank you sir - I've outline all the UCMI codes he violated above so it'd be easy for the JAG lawyer.  Im sure they'd find more.

    Oddly enough I cleared my head this afternoon as this has been boiling over since I found out the final condition of the house Friday night - I sent a firm but polite text message and after a couple back and forths - he actually called me and we had what I'd consider given the situation a civil discussion - He truly is a sociopath as he was trying to play the victim and twist things into the fact we gave him all the window treatments - He attempted his bullying in the conversation as well which was shut down - The ultimatum was given to bring the stuff back to court Monday or to our attorney's office by end of business or I'd file a police report Tuesday morning.  In our text message exchange he admits to having possession of the curtains/rods.  Again maybe it's small but I'm a principle of the matter guy.  I operated the same way in insurance and as much as I hated the industry it taught me how to handle jackwagons like this guy - 

    I'm still curious why in the age of public shaming a landlord has not resorted to this.  I wont be the guinea pig here as I'm hopeful we can work it out.  Id assume if it hasn't been done it's a matter of time.  

    If I have to resort to more formal steps I'll keep this thread updated - hopefully it can help someone attempting to bring a case for garnishment against a current military member.

  • Specialist · St Petersburg, FL · Member since 2017 · 62 posts · 34 votes
    8y

    Shane, 

    There maybe a really simple solution to this. If he is still active duty, you can easily call his command and let them know htat he wreck your house and owes you money.

    That should do it easily. Officers are held to a higher standard in the military. This will hurt his reputation and maybe even a prevent him from getting a promotion. 

    I had an old Marine buddy tell me his real estate game plan years ago. He bought near bases and rented out to service members. If they were late on payment or damaged anything, he would simply call their command. Their command forced their hand and issues went away quickly. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    8y
    @Shane H. there was a fella who wrote about this many many years ago Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone
  • Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2015 · 769 posts · 279 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Anthony Rodriguez:

    Shane, 

    There maybe a really simple solution to this. If he is still active duty, you can easily call his command and let them know htat he wreck your house and owes you money.

    That should do it easily. Officers are held to a higher standard in the military. This will hurt his reputation and maybe even a prevent him from getting a promotion. 

    I had an old Marine buddy tell me his real estate game plan years ago. He bought near bases and rented out to service members. If they were late on payment or damaged anything, he would simply call their command. Their command forced their hand and issues went away quickly. 

    I did that in June when he bounced his rent payment.  Spoke to a Lt Colonel and within 6 hours of that phone call rent and late payments were paid - however the cycle repeated in July and I was done - luckily in KS it's easy to get possession back for non payment of rent

     - however the command he's at has no VM set up and no one ever answers the phone - never been able to reach anyone since.  If he doesnt play ball with me I'll be calling the media relations which is the only one with a voicemail.  I would have evicted in June but needed his rent one more month in June.  

    Here's a tidbit on how to come up with someone's fowarding address:  Will be attempting this Monday.

    https://thedarkpark.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/how-t...

  • Deland, FL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    personally after I file for eviction I no longer communicate with the tenant

    Helps keep my blood pressure low

  • Investor · Saskatchewan , Saskatchewan · Member since 2017 · 311 posts · 233 votes
    8y
    Always step back, have a pint, chill out for a week, and evaluate. Or ask here I guess. If you’re a local landlord assc member, add his name to the list and move on. If you’re in Colorado, wet a line and be thankful that a little damage repair and some lost rent is the worst of your worries. Either way, I prescribe a good local IPA and an evening with the wife being thankful for what in time you’ll see as a minor speedbump on your road to rockstar status.
  • Arn CenedellaPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2008 · 786 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    @Shane H. Do not do it! Just move on.
  • Real Estate Broker · Des Moines, IA · Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 12 votes
    8y
    @Shane H. Learn a lesson and move on. Some people suck. Once you get burned you’ll learn that while you can certainly still give people chances, you’ll start dropping the hammer a bit sooner as to not let yourself get in this situation again.
  • Rental Property Investor · SC · Member since 2014 · 19 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    @Shane H. So very sorry to hear! Keeping your composure and going about the damages in a legal and professional way distinguishes from his type. 1. Sue for damages 2. No posting of anything negative. 3. Always due background/credit checks, and take heed using your instincts too. 4. Have in lease inspections 2x year as per your descretion. Best of luck to you!
  • Flipper/Rehabber · Highlands County · Member since 2017 · 87 posts · 33 votes
    8y

    If I were you, I wont do it. It will say more of you as a landlord than about your tenant. It is important that we maintain our professionalism at all times. Any negative tactic might scare future tenants and attrack those who are not afraind of public shame. Just a thought. 

  • Debbie W.Pro Member
    Lindenhurst, NY · Member since 2017 · 75 posts · 35 votes
    8y

    I'm glad you have chosen against the shaming route. Think past the anger. In a year, will it be something you thought was still the right thing. If you did it, there's a chance that you would still be hearing about it in a year. Wouldn't you rather move on with your business? Breathe and move on. I believe we all get what we deserve in the end. Don't let someone diminish you. Good luck. I hope you get a phenomenal tenant to replace him.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Boise, ID · Member since 2018 · 18 posts · 11 votes
    8y
    @Shane H. Don’t. Just let go and move on. Karma always wins.
  • Mesa, AZ · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 5 votes
    8y

    i had the same thing happen but i got my money back but not all of it. i know this is wrong but you can have some one call him and present a lease for a home  cause the poor guy needs some where to stay have him see any home you can get your hands on and have him give that person  deposit and 1st month rent . then the scum bag peace of shiiiiii   will 

    totally feel what your feeling its better then eating up his whole family, you work hard to let crap like this go. 

    from now on if your 1 day late slap that 5 day pay or get the hell out notice on there door .

    that way they know your serious and they wont take it further and into court . some times there a gas leak and you have to vacate the building and the tenants that didn't pay have new locks on there door . 

    much love iam a nice guy but pay your rent......

  • Property Manager · Henderson, NV · Member since 2018 · 501 posts · 317 votes
    8y

    This tenant will have an eviction on his record (assuming you proceeded with the eviction).  Anytime he tries to rent from someone else the eviction will show up.  I would then send the move out balance statement via certificate of mailing with a 30 payment due date.  If payment is not made within 30 calendar days just send it to collections and move on.  You will not get the entire balance but at least you do not have to worry about it.  And having the balance sent to collections, eventually this nightmare tenant will pay the $$$.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Tahoka, TX · Member since 2018 · 23 posts · 10 votes
    8y
    @Shane H. Misery loves company; stay hme. Learn from it and move forward. Whatever the cost you got off cheap. Count lessons as well as blessings.
  • Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 17 votes
    8y

    I have a friend who rents a lot to military people. He told me he has called the base commander a few times, to get these types of problems solved. Not sure if that's true or if it works.

    Just re-read the thread and saw that you already tried. Sorry, disregard ;-)

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