Publicly SHAMING an evicted former Tenant? Do it or not?

Publicly SHAMING an evicted former Tenant? Do it or not?

Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2015 · 769 posts · 279 votes

I've been a landlord since 2006.  Up until now I've never had to evict a tenant.  I've had people owe me what I would consider decent sums of money however always treated those tenants with respect from our first interaction to the last and I've always been paid back even when I didn't expect to.

My cherry was finally popped and I had a tenant I was forced to evict.  I'm not sure why - but he chose to appear in court to fight the eviction - the attorney assured me he has nothing to stand on and the "trial" is set for this coming Monday - curious as to whether or not he shows up.

That being said I'm from the midwest and most people in KS and in general in states touching us operate different than other places - we can still at times do business on a handshake and a man/woman's word.  I've lived on the East cost and had culture shock when I moved there a few years ago as it is completely different there.  Anyways when we started to have issues with  him I gave him multiple, multiple opportunities to work this out like gentlemen between us.  

The man is a pathological liar as well as his dirtbag family.  He's a Captain in the military and in his 40's and has been using the military card to get people to kiss his butt and I'm assuming getting away with scamming people like me.  Well he didnt expect me to take a stand and fight against his bullying so after he tried to stiff me for another months rent so eviction court we went.  We have control of the house back as I had reports from the neighbors he moved out and he also text messaged me he left as well as was shutting off the utilities - so per the attorney that was justifiable enough to change the locks.

So - some of the damage I was aware of due to a couple inspections on the house - last time I was in it was April - 

This house was immaculate from top to bottom and I'd finished it in high end finishes as this was the house my wife/I lived in and as I continued my RE career in Wichita I wanted it to be a show piece to other folks I'd do business with I knew what I was doing.  We didnt even finish the remodeling until after we moved and purchased our business out of town.  So everything in the house was new from windows, to curtains, curtain rods, appliances (a couple we never used) granite countertops, custom kitchen cabinets (beech wood - very hard wood)  fancy backsplash, doors, HIGH END custom trim, flooring the 33 cubic yards of concrete for patio/driveway etc.  

In 6 months they broke 3 light fixtures - I had reports their kids were spraying a garden hose from the outside of the house into the kitchen, broke a large kitchen cabinet door, broke several plastic pieces of a new higher end Fridge, fist sized hole in the wall, carpet stains and the entire house may need another repaint, damaged woodwork, scratched kitchen cabinets, stole the curtain rods, curtains my wife spent a lot of time picking out stolen, destroyed the back yard - let the weeds grow several feet tall in the flower beds etc.  

So given my track record of vetting tenants I'd been good - this guy is a pathological liar and a sociopath so he was able to pull one over on me - glad he's out.

That being said I'm debating pulling photos from their FB pages and coupling them with photos of how he left the house, and putting FB posts in several local landlord forums, social shaming forums, and then paying $100 to advertise their misdeeds on FB, post the post on his military command's FB page, email it to their media relations etc - my whole reasoning is obviously I'm angry I was lied to, and to me the biggest deal of all is trust was broken which where I live is a HUGE deal and by the time this is done he's going to owe around $3-5k which to me is not an insignificant amount of money and I know with his Captains salary and BAH he can more than afford to pay me back.   

Part of me thinks I'm wanting to do this due to being betrayed but the other part of me is that he has a bullying mentality (he's a very large built imposing military man) and I dont think anyone has ever stood up to him and it's time to take a stand.  The second motivation for doing this is to motivate him to speak to me and work out a payment plan so as I remove the posts. 

Please give opinions to the ramifications of doing this and if it's a bad idea - due to our US societies love affair with the military I'm afraid this can backfire on me - if he wasn't in the military I wouldn't have second thoughts.  (No offense to the military folks on here - my dad was in for 17 years and many other family members have served - however the current military folks are far different from the old school ones and feel it's everyones right to kiss their butt and they can get away with anything - dont get me wrong there's a lot of good ones and they outnumber the bad by far - but we cant dispute today's generation is far different than many years ago)

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Rental Property Investor · Torrance, CA · Member since 2016 · 724 posts · 1k+ votes
8y
I think you are letting emotions guide your decision making process, and in business that is never a good idea. What financial benefit will shaming him bring? Absolutely none. If it doesn’t bring a financial benefit it’s a waste of time and energy. The attorney said he has zero ground to stand on in this case. Make sure you keep it that way. Don’t give him anything to sue you for....like defamation of character. Beat him in court, lick your wounds and move on. I know it’s hard not to take it personal, but that’s what professionals have to do. Don’t act like your tenant.
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  • Member since 2018 · 563 posts · 562 votes
    8y

    Pretty obvious what the right answer is after reading all the replies. thanks to all the respondents for the great level headed advice. I'm new to BP,  l learned on the job, but could avoided sooooo many mistakes with resource like this.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Buffalo, NY · Member since 2017 · 257 posts · 130 votes
    8y

    I would only take reasonable measures to collect and maybe inform the troop like the response below if possible. I wouldn't do anything that will create more animosity towards them and you're better off never losing your cool and treating even terrible people respectfully.  You will also have a clear conscience, will sleep better at night and won't be as bitter against them as you would if you tried to take any sort of personal revenge. I just had a younger couple with 2 kids trash my rental that was spotless when they moved in and they silly accusations and threats toward me. I also had a house where the lady let it get overrun by her crackhead friends and they did some damage. I just did what I needed to do to get them out and collect what I could and although not always easy, I treated them well and moved on and I'm happy about that. 

  • Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    8y
    @Shane H. I didn’t read the entire thread but I do know that you can go to the tenants command and inform them that so and so isn’t paying there rent and I’m about to evict him and the command will handle a lot of things that way. Mainly because he’s kind of an ambassador for the military and being irresponsible like that looks bad on the military. I would definitely inform his command though because then he’ll also have to face “charges” (more like issues) on the military’s behalf as well. I’m currently serving active duty and I’ve always made sure my rent was paid on time because I didn’t want to be humiliated in front of my command for something that simple. We get paid a housing allowance so it shouldn’t be an issue. But I’ve also known plenty of scum bags that do stupid **** like that. To save as much money as possible. Hope this helps if it hasn’t already been answered.
  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Shane H.:
    Originally posted by @Dan Tessman:
    @Shane H. You dont need to publicly shame him, get into contact with his chain of command, captain isnt the highest rung on the ladder when it comes to officers in the military, and they hold all of us to higher standards than the picture you painted here, also talk to a former JAG lawyer or possibly even current JAG (Army Lawyer) on his post to see what kind of Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) actions you can initate, that would be a better approach and a way to possibly get the military on your side helping you to forcibly get what your owed either through garnishment etc

    Thank you sir - I've outline all the UCMI codes he violated above so it'd be easy for the JAG lawyer.  Im sure they'd find more.

    Oddly enough I cleared my head this afternoon as this has been boiling over since I found out the final condition of the house Friday night - I sent a firm but polite text message and after a couple back and forths - he actually called me and we had what I'd consider given the situation a civil discussion - He truly is a sociopath as he was trying to play the victim and twist things into the fact we gave him all the window treatments - He attempted his bullying in the conversation as well which was shut down - The ultimatum was given to bring the stuff back to court Monday or to our attorney's office by end of business or I'd file a police report Tuesday morning.  In our text message exchange he admits to having possession of the curtains/rods.  Again maybe it's small but I'm a principle of the matter guy.  I operated the same way in insurance and as much as I hated the industry it taught me how to handle jackwagons like this guy - 

    I'm still curious why in the age of public shaming a landlord has not resorted to this.  I wont be the guinea pig here as I'm hopeful we can work it out.  Id assume if it hasn't been done it's a matter of time.  

    If I have to resort to more formal steps I'll keep this thread updated - hopefully it can help someone attempting to bring a case for garnishment against a current military member.

     Because most (not all) landlords look at it as business, nothing more. In business, your ultimate goal is to make money. When making money isn't possible, your next goal is to break even. When that isn't possible, your final goal is to limit damages to the greatest extent possible relative to the amount of time, money and energy you have to spend. Emotions really have no place whatsoever, even though we are all human and don't like being wronged. 

    Personally, I don't get emotionally invested with my houses or tenants. They are people there to buy my product, and my product exists to make me money. There are ancillary benefits - we provide nice housing at good prices in safe neighborhoods, we clean up dilapidated houses, etc - but at the end of the day pretty much all I care about is making money. That is really the only reason I do this. I can find plenty of ways to get aggravated outside of tenants 😀

    Skyline Properties
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  • Rental Property Investor · Everett, WA · Member since 2015 · 458 posts · 386 votes
    8y
    @Shane H. This is a business and you need to act in a professional manner. Absolutely nothing to be gained by going down this route. Landlording is a people business and public shaming would only serve to hurt your business. Use this as a lesson to make you a better landlord going forward. Best of luck.
  • Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    There are two types of landlords those who:

    A) View their tenants always as a paycheck, sometimes as an inconvenience, and rarely as another human being. 

    B) Those who view them as the people we are fortunate enough to have paying our mortgages.

    I'll go with option B.

    Do we have rules, policies, and procedures? Yes. Those dictate what we do when residents are late. (Including when we show Grace & how often.) 

    We still provide quality housing and treat our residents with dignity and respect. (Even in an eviction.) 

    Vengeance is not mine to take.

  • Investor · New York City, NY · Member since 2017 · 65 posts · 32 votes
    8y
    @Shane H. When I was a freshman in college I joined the campus radio station, there was a series of broadcasts (not mine) targeted at the university president... needless to say, there was a mandatory meeting for all on-air personalities called.. the facility advisor opened by saying somthing along the lines of “everyone has a righ to free speech, that being said, the average cost to defend a defamation lawsuit in the US is 300k (circa 2001), the station is not responsible for your speech, are you ready?” As other folks have said, be glad they’re gone and move into legal recovery mode for damages, this is a cost of doing business... double check your vetting process for potential enhancements and ensure your ready if you get a call for a reference check.
  • Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2016 · 214 posts · 95 votes
    8y

    If this were me, I would invest my time reviewing my & my teams process to find how this applicant slipped through.  There is nothing to be gained by continuing to take time after they are evicted.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2018 · 1 post · 2 votes
    8y

    Be professional at all times. Investing is about profit AND loss. If you have documentation, contact his PSD (personnel support division) on the base he is at and find out who his CO (commanding officer) is and address the issue with tact and respond. Alert him you are contacting his chain of command and be done with it. Never be emotional or go over the top, it will come back on you one day. Just be professional. 

  • Tampa, FL · Member since 2018 · 28 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    If you do that I can guarantee you’ll get sued for defamation or cyber bullying. Especially if someone from his command finds out, everyone where he works will know, and that’ll get you screwed.
  • Owosso, MI · Member since 2018 · 1 post · 2 votes
    8y
    @Shane H. You definitely need to bring it up to his command. They won’t put up with that kind of behavior and they will make sure he pays you what he owes. But publicly shaming him won’t do any real good.
  • Real Estate Agent · Bellingham, WA · Member since 2017 · 427 posts · 182 votes
    8y
    @Shane H. Let the court know, and pull info from his public records if your lawyer believes it to be legal and will help. Do NOT post anything else on Facebook or do any other “shamming”. What you CAN do, especially after you win, is to take the evidence to his chain of command (you sound fairly knowledgeable about the military) and show them. Enlisted can get hammered if they are bad remnants, and officers are held to a higher standard. His major will real him a new one.
  • All Over, USA · Member since 2017 · 689 posts · 756 votes
    8y

    BP Note(s) to self:

    1. Don’t rent to lawyers.

    2. Don’t rent to military.

    3. Don’t rent to anyone with bankruptcy due to medical debt.

  • All Over, USA · Member since 2017 · 689 posts · 756 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Ryan Dossey:

    There are two types of landlords those who:

    A) View their tenants always as a paycheck, sometimes as an inconvenience, and rarely as another human being. 

    B) Those who view them as the people we are fortunate enough to have paying our mortgages.

    I'll go with option B.

    Do we have rules, policies, and procedures? Yes. Those dictate what we do when residents are late. (Including when we show Grace & how often.) 

    We still provide quality housing and treat our residents with dignity and respect. (Even in an eviction.) 

    Vengeance is not mine to take.

    B is how you view them when you are starting out.

    A is what happens down the road.

  • Yuma, AZ · Member since 2015 · 140 posts · 137 votes
    8y
    Enjoy the tax write off. It's only 4 walls and a roof.
  • Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 625 posts · 601 votes
    8y
    I haven't read any replies to your story but I think your being to emotional.
  • Investor · Mohnton, PA · Member since 2016 · 3 posts · 1 vote
    8y
    @Shane H. I would say this is a no. Regardless of what he did, keeping it off social media is a plus. I am heading to one if my out of town properties this evening, and even if it is trashed I will not do this. It closes potential doors, and makes you and your business look short tempered and amateur. Venting is always good, and I have been venting my frustrations with my wife since my tenant abandoned my property. I think there is even a person on your ten man team that is for venting. That would be the best place to let this go. It is a part of the business, and unfortunately a part that we as business men and women have to bear the brunt of. You will recover and hopefully learn from this. I rewrote my lease to include stipulations for removal of items in the house, as well as stipulations for potential trial costs incurred if a tenant abandons a house, such as funding them to serve them, and costs associated with filing, ect. I hope this helps. Best of luck to you. -Jot
  • Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2014 · 177 posts · 213 votes
    8y
    Stop going back and forth with him, just take the legal actions you need to. Like Mark Twain said... Never argue with stupid people, they’ll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
  • Real Estate Investor · Katy, TX · Member since 2016 · 109 posts · 46 votes
    8y

    I would just focus on getting the tenant evicted and the property rented again. Shaming the tenant wont bring anything good but more drama.  I have been on a similar situation and is just easier to move on.

  • Saint Simons Island, GA · Member since 2017 · 34 posts · 64 votes
    8y

    I'm a retired Army Colonel and now into real estate on the side. Next time you place a military member, have them give you their chain of command's names and contact information. If they are not willing to, then they are probably not the tenant you want in there.

  • Jason GottPro Member
    Danville, IN · Member since 2017 · 63 posts · 17 votes
    8y

    I'd be surprised if you went to HIS commanding officer (Major, commander, Colonel), that they wouldn't MAKE him fix his wrong doing.  I may be wrong on this.  As far as the public shaming I agree with the majority here.  Do unto others, even if they screw you keep doing what's right.

  • Investor · Matawan, NJ · Member since 2015 · 111 posts · 29 votes
    8y

    I know how much stress you went through with the tenant but going to that level of defamation will not be way to go in my opinion. Probably have all agreements in a contract that if any tenant have done that, you can get financial cost incurred in repairs be reimbursed to you.

    Just charge it to experience and move on.  Always think what you do to others comes back hundred folds returned by universe. 

    In this business, I think we cant have our emotions run us through, no matter how mad it can be unfortunately.

  • TBD · Member since 2017 · 43 posts · 17 votes
    8y

    I agree with just about everyone else that's posted.  The simple fact of filing a dispossessory will do enough damage to this former tenant.  Defamation can get you in trouble, or more importantly ruin your reputation.

  • MBA, CFP®, EA · Columbus, OH · Member since 2018 · 175 posts · 207 votes
    8y
    Simply put. Don’t do it.
  • Investor · Seminole, FL · Member since 2016 · 94 posts · 41 votes
    8y
    @Shane H. As long as the next guy can see that he is being evicted and the eviction is on his record there’s no need to publicy shame.
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