Problems with tenant BEFORE she moves in...HELP!!!!!

Problems with tenant BEFORE she moves in...HELP!!!!!

Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes

Hubby and I have multiple units out of state in Michigan. What that said, we have contractors doing the work for us, and overseeing things, while they communicate with us. I just had someone sign a lease on Monday, and she later called me to tell me that the bathroom was leaking under the sink, and the basement had water in it. When I originally advertised this property, I advertised it as an efficiency with/a small room that can be used as a small bedreoom/den...due to the size of the room (the porch was enclosed to create the room). So although the room has windows, a door, and a closet, I didn't feel right calling it a one-bedroom. It also has a basement, which is unusable for anything other than storage because it's one of the ORIGINAL Michigan basements. Anyways, that's a little background...when I spoke to the tenant yesterday about the leak, she obviously sounded unhappy, so I asked her were there any other problems? She said, "well, there's just a lot of little things"...I proceeded to tell her that I am not a slumlord, and I rely heavily on my contractors to tell me the condition of the properties, but that if she gives me a list, I'll be more than happy to fix all reasonable requests. I JUST received her list. Take a look at it. And keep in mind that her rent is $325 a month, she has a dog, and she has NOT moved her things in yet...she has signed a lease, received her keys, and has given me her prorated 1st month's rent and her security deposit. Take a look at her list! What should I do? I will definitely fix all of the reasonable issues, but I do NOT want her as a tenant going forward...I want to evict her NOW!

Radiator in kitchen is hanging off the wall
no outside light- no bulbs, they are broken on the ground outside
no screens on any windows. The porch has a screen but it is all ripped up
paint on porch windows are chipped off
door frame was not painted, on the inside and outside, also where they added new wood for the lock.
No dead bolt
Dining Room(hardwood) Radiator control wires are exposed and this radiator does not work
Living Room(carpet area) top left corner of the window you can see through it
Trim around that window has not been sealed in, or painted.
all trim around the base of the room has paint drips and roller marks on them
smoke alarm in LR does not work
Smoke alarm in bed room does not work
kitchen ceiling at corner leaks water
water running down wall by bathroom in kitchen
kitchen ceiling has cracks from damage
bathroom door frame is not painted
bathroom needs to be repainted.
bathroom sink leaks underneath. The bottom of the cabinet is bowed and may have mold, it is wet.
Stopper is missing for the sink and the tub
tub seal is not sealed, just a few finishing nails are in it. There is a gap toward the bottom that is 1/2 inch wide.
toilet tank lid is cracked and broken, it has been glued
floor seems really soft next to toilet.
cove base is pealing off, and bubbled around the room
switch plate is not screwed on right, with the screw sticking out at an angle
no basement door
stairway is not painted, the walls are DIRTY
Basement walls are chipping with paint falling off
Moldy paneling laying on the raised part of the basement. In the far corner there is white stringy mold under the panels.
no furnace filter
duct tape on tub drain
tub drain leaks
carpet in basement is wet
no sink stoppers in the kitchen
mold under the sink in the kitchen
no shut offs to any of the water lines to unit 1
stove is coated with grim and dirt, on top and down the sides
no blinds on any windows
drip pans on stove are filthy and filled with grim
carpet in LR has stains and paint spilled on it
kitchen outlet on wall with the door to the apartment is loss, it moves back and forth
Oven handle is falling off
Broken circut breaker in the fuse box, a couple are not in the box right
ghi's are bad in the kitchen and bathroom
all drawers in the kitchen are nailed shut except for 1. The drawer to the left of the stove is falling apart.
flooring under the stove has dead bugs and possible mold
fridge drawer is not on a runner, the shelf to this drawer is cracked. The fridge has a lot of filth in it as does the freezer.
no closet doors in the bedroom
No overflow valve on the water heater--pressure relief valve
window in bedroom latches, and handles.
window in the bedroom is also painted shut. They painted over cigerette butts by the old lock...
counter tops in the kitchen have chips, nickle size, and knife marks all over the tops of them. The edge toward the basement door is all chipped up and missing.
On top of the upper cabinets there are two syringes aith needles attached, and garbage on top.

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Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
15y

I'll take a slightly different perspective here. While I agree that a tenant who identifies all these issues up front may be a problem on an ongoing basis, many of these items really should be dealt with. Some of these are piddly items that are perhaps just part of the deal for $325 a month. Some are serious hazards and would be code violations in my area. Some sound like real problems in your property that I would want to fix if this was mine. The place sounds like its not very clean. Who ever did some of this work did a sloppy job (paint over cigarette butts? really?) and I'd never use them again.

I don't rent my units with these sort of issues. There are quite a number of items on this list that I would address. OTOH, I don't have $325 units, so maybe this just comes with the territory.

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  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    Did you also sign the lease? I'd suggest she find another rental that is more in line with her expectations and return her money, if possible at this point.

  • Real Estate Investor · Alpharetta, GA · Member since 2010 · 415 posts · 484 votes
    15y

    Presumably she saw the place before she signed a lease, and presumably she is doing a walk-through (which apparently she has already done, hence the list).

    Now it's up to you to decide what you're willing to fix and what you need to leave as-is.

    I think your tenant is right to expect certain things to be repaired (leaks), but some things (like nicked countertops) were there when she first saw the place. She can't expect you to change them now.

    Sounds to me like she's throwing everything at you, knowing she is not going to get it all.

    I'd simply come back to her with the things you're willing to do and see how it plays out. Sounds like some of these things you're going to have to do regardless of who moves in.

  • Real Estate Investor · Alpharetta, GA · Member since 2010 · 415 posts · 484 votes
    15y

    Or, we could just delete the thread and pretend the whole thing never happened.

    There's three minutes of my life I'm never getting back...

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    We had the same dream, but its fading...

  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    15y

    The thread was killed by the OP, but she then reposted it -- I moved all responses here from the previous thread.

  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y

    Thanks, guys (Hi Josh!!! I feel honored to get you on my thread. You're a super star! :)). My dad told me to get rid of her ASAP...he told me that she will be a problem from here on out. Yes, I signed the lease, but she has not moved her things in yet. I'm wondering what my rights, and hers are, legally (I'm not expecting any legal advice here...just want opinions). My dad told me that I should change the locks, and let her know that we found something majorly wrong with the apartment that we need to fix prior to renting it out, and refund her money...fix all the necessities like any leaks and non-working smoke detectors, and re-rent. Yes, she saw the place before she rented it, and LOVED it. She knows she's getting a LOT for her money because I could really be charging around $450 for the place, considering it's "technically" a one-bedroom with a basement for plenty of storage space.

  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y

    Actually, come to think about it, I do not think she has a signed (by me) copy of the lease. Is that my out?

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by newlife30:
    ... She said, "well, there's just a lot of little things"...I proceeded to tell her that I am not a slumlord, and I rely heavily on my contractors to tell me the condition of the properties, ...

    Somebody here is obviously not telling the truth. Either the list is bogus (hard for me to believe that, it's pretty detailed), OR the landlord is a slumlord, OR the contractor's description of the condition of this property is inaccurate. I can't say who isn't being truthful here, though my guess is door #3 :D

    As the landlord, have you seen the place? Did you perform a walkthrough with a checklist to establish the condition? Did you walk through with the contractor before move-in, so that any needed repairs were identified?

    Here is a thread with a contractor list for things to look at:
    http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/56971-punch-lists-for-contractors

  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y

    I guess the contractor is not detail-oriented. Yes, I walked-thru with the contractor, and established what needed to be done. However, I am new at this, and I did not think of every little thing (like opening up all of the cabinets). The reason I was going to delete my thread is because I am not looking to be "dogged" for this list; I am just looking for some opinions on how I should handle this woman. I am have every intention of fixing all major issues that we missed, so please don't slam me on that.

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    15y

    I'll take a slightly different perspective here. While I agree that a tenant who identifies all these issues up front may be a problem on an ongoing basis, many of these items really should be dealt with. Some of these are piddly items that are perhaps just part of the deal for $325 a month. Some are serious hazards and would be code violations in my area. Some sound like real problems in your property that I would want to fix if this was mine. The place sounds like its not very clean. Who ever did some of this work did a sloppy job (paint over cigarette butts? really?) and I'd never use them again.

    I don't rent my units with these sort of issues. There are quite a number of items on this list that I would address. OTOH, I don't have $325 units, so maybe this just comes with the territory.

  • Investor · Randallstown, MD · Member since 2010 · 185 posts · 57 votes
    15y

    No, I don't think it comes with the territory. I plan to take the list home and discuss each item with hubby, and we will definitely address some things with teh contractor, and get his take. Don't get me wrong..I WILL make necessary changes (fix the necessary stuff & get rid of the contractor if I have to), but I just don't want to get in over my head with this woman if she's going to be nit-picky about every little POSSIBLE thing going forward. In it's current state, I do not feel the apartment should be rented out...

  • Full-Time Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    15y

    i agree with jon...almost all of those items would violate minimum housing code in my area...i would also ask the contractors what the heck they've been doing...lol...that sounds like some pretty basic stuff that they shouldn't have missed

    it's possible this tenant saw the work being done or saw a contractor, and loved the apatment, because she was thinking it would be fixed correctly...the more i read that list, the more i think, almost everything on that list is a code violation...i think you need a new contractor

  • Specialist · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
    15y

    I would meet her at the apartment to go over everything. Go through the list, and just tell her you cant afford to do all of those items. Offer her a refund, and have her sign off that she is forfeiting the place.Get the keys back, and move on.
    I have NEVER had dealings with anyone that was a pain in the beginning and turned out to be easy going in the end.
    You are not making enough on this unit to have headaches!

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by newlife30:
    ... In it's current state, I do not feel the apartment should be rented out...

    No intent on slamming here - just pointing things out for all to learn from.

    This is almost sounding like a confession. If it should not be rented out in it's current state, then you shouldn't be signing a lease (unless it is to begin on some future date where the corrections to the premises are in place).

    Jon's post is spot on IMO.

  • Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 671 votes
    15y

    This woman seems like she knows a lot about construction and the parts of a house. You should hire her to be your project manager. I would expect most people in that price range to not care and not be able to write a list that long.

  • Real Estate Investor · Alpharetta, GA · Member since 2010 · 415 posts · 484 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Jeffrey K.:
    This woman seems like she knows a lot about construction and the parts of a house. You should hire her to be your project manager. I would expect most people in that price range to not care and not be able to write a list that long.

    It's almost as if the contractor wrote it for her, isn't it?

    (Follow the money...)

  • Real Estate Investor · NY · Member since 2008 · 313 posts · 87 votes
    15y

    I would take a trip out there and personally inspect the unit. If there is that many issues wrong then maybe you need a new contractor.

    Also I never really had a tenant who noticed so many things which might scare me. She noticed somethings which if you don't fix she might be able to sue you for especially since she put it in writing. Paint chipping, Water heater tube missing, mold etc. In my area I would be nervous to rent to someone like this, not saying it is the case here but some tenants are searching out landlord to pay them

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    15y

    Sounds like a really rough area you are renting out in.

    Syringes and those other details are just gross.

    I don't know how this property ever could have been deemed (rent-ready) regardless of the finishes.

    Low finishes to high finishes everyone expects a clean place to move into.The list that was given I don't know a quality renter in any rent range that would move into a property in that shape.

    I think you definitely do not want anyone moving in there.

    I don't think the list is that unreasonable.

  • Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2008 · 244 posts · 36 votes
    15y

    that's more items than a section 8 inspector can find!

  • Real Estate Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 671 votes
    15y

    Who tests the GFIs before they move in?

    I know less about most buildings I buy.

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    15y

    More evidence of the profitability of long-distance investments. Is this prospective tenant pointing out legitimate problems and the contractors are "fudging" when they say the property is ready to rent? Are the prospective tenant and contractors in cahoots and trying to get the owner to pay for a bunch of unnecessary work? Who knows? All you really know, Katrina, is that something isn't right.

    Do you have any truly trusted eyes on the ground in Detroit? Someone who you personally know and is totally independent of anyone who's been involved in this deal? If not, I think you need to seriously consider jumping on a plane and having a look in person. It could well be this prospective tenant has just made you aware of a very bad situation.

  • Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
    15y

    That list looks a LOT like a summary report from a home inspector.

    As as been said - honestly, 80% of the stuff on that list would be code violations where I am. I'd be pretty upset if there were hanging wires and mold growing and leaking faucets... in fact, I'd probably be looking for a way out of the rent...

    Which may be what she wants. She saw all this stuff and is really saying, "I want out and I'm going to try and scare you into letting me out"

    If I were you, I'd either fix it to her liking or offer the woman her money back, then get the health code violations fixed and try to re-rent the place.

  • Real Estate Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 268 votes
    15y

    Is it only me who thinks that the topic starter wants to evict the tenant for not wanting to live in a dump?
    PS Wonder how much a rental like this costs

  • Involved In Real Estate · Hyattsville , MD · Member since 2011 · 298 posts · 256 votes
    15y

    I have a very strict policy with rentals- I will not rent someone some place that I would not live myself. This works out well for me because if worst comes to worst I should be able to move into one of my rentals.Could you in all honesty say that you are going to detroit and instead of hotel you can stay in that property for a few days? If you cannot say that then you shouldn't be renting it to anyone, I don't care if its $320 a month or $1 a month. We are all basically human beings. But thats just me.
    On the other matter- I say get out of this lease STAT. No matter how find a way out.
    I had a tenant like that but she started after she moved in there was nothing health standard wrong with the house, no code violations- They would call me for the littlest thing-I had so many calls after 3 weeks that I wanted to end the lease and I'm talking about at tiny piece of the stove handle broken- Okay I'll order one- special order. The toilet wont fill up- Maybe it would help if you turned on the little thing under the bottom of the tank.
    There is water leaking from the upstairs bathroom into the downstairs- Really how did that happen- we go over there and apparently someone pulled the hose that fills up the toilet tank out and so instead of going into the toilet tank the water was spraying from the bathroom into the downstairs damaging my drywall and floor..Then there was the call about there is no heat- I paid a heating guy who went out there midnight to check- Turns out they hadn't bought oil and the oil tank was empty- Thier responsbility.
    Long story short- I cant even remember all the stuff they called me for but trust me even my contractor was teed off with the amount of calls. The thing is I'm the kind of landlord that if you say x is wrong, I'm on it like white on rice, I'm not talking a week or two- I'm talking an hour to a day at most so all thier issues I resolved in under a day or so over the first few weeks of them living there. Because of that they had no out to say we reported this and therefore since you cant fix we wont pay rent - 2 months down the line they started being 30 days or more with rent. Time for eviction.
    Geez long post sorry- The point is many tenants know how the system works-If you are a landlord that will let them stay in a bad house with bad conditions then they are a tenant who will find a way to live there for free.

  • Real Estate Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 268 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Ophelia Nicholson:
    Because of that they had no out to say we reported this and therefore since you cant fix we wont pay rent - 2 months down the line they started being 30 days or more with rent. Time for eviction.
    Geez long post sorry- The point is many tenants know how the system works-If you are a landlord that will let them stay in a bad house with bad conditions then they are a tenant who will find a way to live there for free.

    Ophelia - you're (also) in Maryland, you know that the tenant cannot escrow the rent because of the small issues like low water level in the toilet tank or chipped oven handle. It takes life-threating unhealthy condition for a judge to justify the rent escrowing.
    In any case, you need to document every complaint and it's resolution to avoid problems.
    Some things you can however do to avoid numerous demands like these. In your lease you can specify that the tenant is required to notify you IN WRITING about maintenance requests. Plus, they accept the unit in as-is condition (we give them plenty of time to complete the move-in checklist) so the broken handle won't fly.
    Some LLs are charging $50 deductible for maintenance requests that were tenant-caused or even pass the cost back onto the tenant (so they will think twice before pulling the hose and spraying the floor as if they're the gardeners).
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