Tenant is dirty but Pays on time

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Tenant is dirty but Pays on time

Paul Stewart
Specialist · Atlantic City NJ · Member since 2018 · 114 posts · 50 votes

Hi Everyone

 So I currently House hack my home in Long Island NY.  I have owned the property and lived in it for almost 3 years. I'm on my 3rd tenants that are a couple. They are very nice and always pay on time but being that I live on the premises I notice how dirty they are in many aspects. I have tried to speak on the issue with them before and they were receptive and apologized but yet its still the same thing. I have been inside the apartment several times to pick up rent and to fix a bathroom fan and a jammed window on another occasion and every time the apartment smells there is a sink full of dirty dishes old food laying around and just overall dirty... I have had mice in the apartment a few years ago and I know it is only a matter of time before I get mice again or worse Roaches...Other then them being dirty and their trash outside over flowing I have to say they are good Tenants... Any idea's on how to drill the message home to them that they need to clean the premises more..lol I know weird issue to have especially when its a house hack so we share the overall property. I have the main house they have a smaller 2 bed room on the side of the house. Any creative Idea's would be appreciated. Thanks 

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James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Paul Stewart:

Hi Everyone

 So I currently House hack my home in Long Island NY.  I have owned the property and lived in it for almost 3 years. I'm on my 3rd tenants that are a couple. They are very nice and always pay on time but being that I live on the premises I notice how dirty they are in many aspects. I have tried to speak on the issue with them before and they were receptive and apologized but yet its still the same thing. I have been inside the apartment several times to pick up rent and to fix a bathroom fan and a jammed window on another occasion and every time the apartment smells there is a sink full of dirty dishes old food laying around and just overall dirty... I have had mice in the apartment a few years ago and I know it is only a matter of time before I get mice again or worse Roaches...Other then them being dirty and their trash outside over flowing I have to say they are good Tenants... Any idea's on how to drill the message home to them that they need to clean the premises more..lol I know weird issue to have especially when its a house hack so we share the overall property. I have the main house they have a smaller 2 bed room on the side of the house. Any creative Idea's would be appreciated. Thanks 

 As landlords we have to understand that our tenants aren't going to live how we live. Some of them are just dirty savages. It's part of the business. You have people who say that "the lease says this" ok great still have to enforce it. There is a cost to enforcing it & is it really that enforceable? Evicting a paying tenant is damn near impossible. A magistrate is going to look at you side eyed if you bring that case to court. Is the fact that they live like savages really going to hurt your bottom line? I mean damage is already done. House is already nasty. All you'd be doing trying to change their lives is making your life harder.

Take a look at these steps below.

These are steps from one of the properties in my portfolio. Those are friggin gross & I'll be the 1st person to say that the dude who lives in that property is a total savage.............So what? I've gotta pay the same amount of money to repaint those steps if he moves out 5 years from now as I do if I forced him out tomorrow. How does spending time & money removing an income stream from my life only to replace it with another one that may or may not be worse increase my bottom line?

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  • Paul Stewart
    OP
    Specialist · Atlantic City NJ · Member since 2018 · 114 posts · 50 votes
    7y

    Oh and the Title of this post " Tenant is a dirty but pays on time" 

     Should say Tenant is dirty but pays on time... But i can't edit the post the "is a dirty" is driving me crazy..sorry..lol 

    1Reply
  • Andrew B.
    Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    Your lease should have a clause that states that the unit will be kept in clean, habitable conditions. In that case send notice of lease violation.

    4Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    You can not change people. You are in a situation that comes down to making a basic business decision. Do you risk rodent/insect infiltration in exchange for on time rent payment or do you non renew at the end of lease to find better tenants. Many landlords will do anything to avoid a tenant tern over like it is some type of plague. In the end this usually does not work out well for them. If your only priority in assessing the value of tenants is money then your decision is easy. If you view a tenants quality in broader terms then your decision is much more difficult. You should be looking to replace them. 

    7Reply
  • Missy H.Pro Member
    Investor · Bloomfield, NJ · Member since 2015 · 207 posts · 121 votes
    7y

    If your concerns are roaches and mice, you should consider having a pest control company on contract and raising their rent upon renewal to cover the cost.  

    In my opinion, your only other option is to not renew and find someone new.  You can't change people's habits

    4Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Paul Stewart:

    Hi Everyone

     So I currently House hack my home in Long Island NY.  I have owned the property and lived in it for almost 3 years. I'm on my 3rd tenants that are a couple. They are very nice and always pay on time but being that I live on the premises I notice how dirty they are in many aspects. I have tried to speak on the issue with them before and they were receptive and apologized but yet its still the same thing. I have been inside the apartment several times to pick up rent and to fix a bathroom fan and a jammed window on another occasion and every time the apartment smells there is a sink full of dirty dishes old food laying around and just overall dirty... I have had mice in the apartment a few years ago and I know it is only a matter of time before I get mice again or worse Roaches...Other then them being dirty and their trash outside over flowing I have to say they are good Tenants... Any idea's on how to drill the message home to them that they need to clean the premises more..lol I know weird issue to have especially when its a house hack so we share the overall property. I have the main house they have a smaller 2 bed room on the side of the house. Any creative Idea's would be appreciated. Thanks 

     As landlords we have to understand that our tenants aren't going to live how we live. Some of them are just dirty savages. It's part of the business. You have people who say that "the lease says this" ok great still have to enforce it. There is a cost to enforcing it & is it really that enforceable? Evicting a paying tenant is damn near impossible. A magistrate is going to look at you side eyed if you bring that case to court. Is the fact that they live like savages really going to hurt your bottom line? I mean damage is already done. House is already nasty. All you'd be doing trying to change their lives is making your life harder.

    Take a look at these steps below.

    These are steps from one of the properties in my portfolio. Those are friggin gross & I'll be the 1st person to say that the dude who lives in that property is a total savage.............So what? I've gotta pay the same amount of money to repaint those steps if he moves out 5 years from now as I do if I forced him out tomorrow. How does spending time & money removing an income stream from my life only to replace it with another one that may or may not be worse increase my bottom line?

    16Reply
  • John Pierce
    Rental Property Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2014 · 100 posts · 50 votes
    7y
    @Paul Stewart I have been in this situation before. If I were you, I would not get rid of the tenants. Let them know that you expect them to be cleaner, but getting rid of them will cause a vacancy and turnover costs. If the problem progresses from dirty dishes lying around to a pest infestation and rooms full of trash, you should take action. When I find myself in this situation, I always pre-emptively place mouse/rat bait stations around the house, and bait for roaches with Advion. Better to get in front of the pests than to deal with an infestation.
    3Reply
  • Dennis M.
    Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y

    As long as they pay the rent ,I’d let them marinate in their own filth ! You can scold them ..you can get a team of lawyers to draft up an iron clad lease stating they must clean daily .. you can post up notices .. but at the end of the day a slob is a slob and always will be 

    9Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    If you care about your investment simply choose not to rent to anyone that does not meet your requirements. If you have a C/D class property then money is your primary concern. If you have a B class or better you should have standards, If not you will soon own a C/D class property.

    4Reply
  • Mark Fries
    Contractor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y
    @James Wise Well said...trying to change a renter is an exercise in futility...
    3Reply
  • William W.
    Rental Property Investor · south Alabama · Member since 2018 · 121 posts · 88 votes
    7y

    @James Wise

    I don’t know, there are times if the home stays nasty for so long that the odors will start getting into the walls. Once it gets that bad it’s almost impossible to remedy without gutting it down to the studs.

    3Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    7y

    Here's my philosophy. As long as they are not causing damage to the property or a nuisance to anyone, let it go.

    "Damage" can be defined as stains in the carpet but it also includes mice and roaches and other pests that can cause damage to the property over time. If they live in a manner that attracts pests, those pests will eventually meander over to the neighbors. You also don't want odors leaking from one unit to another.

    The only real solution is to get rid of them. You can simply tell them you won't renew their lease and spend the deposit cleaning up after them. There are ways to warn them or punish them but I think it would be a lot more work with very little payoff. Just get rid of them and start fresh...literally.

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    2Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @William W.:

    @James Wise

    I don’t know, there are times if the home stays nasty for so long that the odors will start getting into the walls. Once it gets that bad it’s almost impossible to remedy without gutting it down to the studs.

     Maybe, maybe not. I would argue that if you're at the point of wanting to remove an income stream from your life the property has probably gotten to the point of mass nastiness, lol.

    If I have learned one thing dealing with 1,000's of tenants & 100's of evictions over the years it's that removing paying tenants from units is not a recipe for success. As they say, sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don't.

    2Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    "As they say, sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don't."

    With C/D class properties this is the case. With B class and above you must be more concerned about the condition of your propery.

    2Reply
  • Paul Stewart
    OP
    Specialist · Atlantic City NJ · Member since 2018 · 114 posts · 50 votes
    7y

    Thanks all for the input. This is a B class property as it is in the better area of the Town as well as my own personal home that I keep very well maintained etc. The Tenants are great other then the dirtiness... after speaking with some local land lords I know that house hack I was giving some good advice and will try it. I found a cheap cleaning service that will clean the Apartment once every 2 weeks. I kind of ********ted the Tenants and told them I was getting the service free because I use them for the part of the property that is mine. The Tenants were very excited to have a cleaner come in and were very open to it. I make a great Return on this rental so I would rather lose 100$ a month to a cleaning service and keep the Tenants that are otherwise great. I'm worried if I try to get rid of them or I just let the issue go on it will only get worse and cause more issues in the future or I always risk the chance of getting worse Tenants to move in. I will update this post in a few months to see how my resolution has played out. 

    3Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    if your house hacking meaning your living there.  you create the standards they dont follow you boot em..  you have to be a real pig to create those types of infestations.

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    2Reply
  • Jassem A.
    Investor · PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes
    7y

    Increase the rent by $100 and they'll probably leave and you can replace them

    1Reply
  • Paul Stewart
    OP
    Specialist · Atlantic City NJ · Member since 2018 · 114 posts · 50 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    if your house hacking meaning your living there.  you create the standards they dont follow you boot em..  you have to be a real pig to create those types of infestations.

     Yes it is a Multi Family house Hack I live in the main part of the house they live in a attached apartment. 

    0Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    Definatly increase the rent to cover your additional costs. Having great return does not mean we supplement tenants rent and throw money away.

    Your business decision is to choose to rent to a pig and make less money rather than find a good tenant that is not a pig and make more money. You lost me on the logic of that decision. My assumption is that you fear tenant turn over and prefer not to manage your business. The fact is they will leave someday and you will have to find new tenants. All you are acompliching by delaying is to lose money. Replace them now or replace them later either way you will replace them.

    1Reply
  • Ned J.Pro Member
    Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    Issue is a little different since you house hack...... its your house too, so living with slobs will directly effect you vs "sight unseen" and deal with the issue at turnover.

    You wont change them...not gonna happen.

    The cleaning service is a great compromise but fitting the entire bill yourself is not....... I would increase the rent. No reason for you to eat that $$ to correct a tenant issue.

    1Reply
  • Dennis M.
    Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y

    No way I’d give up 100$ cashflow a month to tidy up the place !

    2Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    I have the same situation , except its a small single family . Place is filthy , but they pay the rent . They pay on time . it will be just as filthy when they move out , in the mean time , I let the money roll in 

    3Reply
  • Nik Moushon
    Architect · Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2018 · 843 posts · 907 votes
    7y

    What ever you do take plenty of notes/pictures and send them emails or letters instead of talking to them. Get everything on record. This will show how messy they are when you spend their entire deposit on cleaning and when they fight you on it you'll have proof. And they will fight you.

    1Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Paul Stewart:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    if your house hacking meaning your living there.  you create the standards they dont follow you boot em..  you have to be a real pig to create those types of infestations.

     Yes it is a Multi Family house Hack I live in the main part of the house they live in a attached apartment. 

    check your city or state laws  but federally if your owner occupying you are exempt from federal fair housing laws. 

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  • Brian Ploszay
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    As landlords, we have to be tolerant.  Quite a few tenants are not as tidy as we want them to be.  Assess if they are causing damages.  Since they live in the same building as you, I understand your pain.

    0Reply
  • James Wise
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

    "As they say, sometimes the devil you know is better than the one you don't."

    With C/D class properties this is the case. With B class and above you must be more concerned about the condition of your propery.

     Agreeable. If you've got units renting for $1,500+ it does change things from how you need to view units renting in the $600-$700 range.

    0Reply
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