Has anyone been extorted/threatened for the deposit back?

OP

Rental Property Investor · NC · Member since 2018 · 29 posts · 11 votes

7y

This is interesting in hearing the different replies. My temperament for this kind of thing is to lock horns something fierce, but I totally get the "is it really worth it" argument. I'm finding myself constantly brooding over what my reply should be, if any at all. We have till Wed of next week to mail the check.

Clearly being a landlord takes a certain kind of temperament at times. Just didn't see this coming.

0 Reply

Caleb Heimsoth

Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

7y

@Jim Morris my thoughts are:

1. Don’t allow tenants to text you, ever. What a bad idea.

2. Why are you even arguing over this with him? Just pay for the repair and give him the deposit back. This is so not worth the headache.

3 Reply

Wesley W.

Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

7y

I admire @Joe Splitrock for this thoroughness during the move-out walk through, but I always always always find more damage once the turnover cleaning begins. I myself take copious pics on the day of move-in, and then have the tenant fill out the move-in inspection report, noting any damage or putting "no damage" next to each item. Upon move out, I inform tenants to document the condition of the unit with their own pics. I do not offer a final walk through, but if they request such I tell them I will be happy to do it but I cannot guarantee a final accounting until after the turnover is done.

In this situation, I would have done a thorough inspection for damage (with pics) before the cleaning crew went through. Then there would be no question as to whom caused the damage. I think it would bother me a bit having a lingering doubt about whether or not the cleaning crew could be responsible. If they did it, there is 100% chance they would blame it on the tenant instead.

On principle, based on how this tenant responded, I would bill him. It just shows an utter disdain for you and your business, and frankly a lack of appreciation for the effort you made to provide a well-maintained home at a reasonable price for he and his family.

If he had responded more diplomatically, explaining he did not cause the damage and if he generally took care of the unit and was not a problem tenant, I might have been more inclined to work something out.

1 Reply

Matthew Olszak

Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @Jim Morris:

Team-

We've had a really smooth 5 years of renting until now. My head is still spinning a little over the text we received from our tenant that just moved out. They have been good renters over the year, so I'm really surprised by this. All of this for "up to $200". The simple back story. The renter moves out, we inspect the apartment, it seems fine, we have the apartment professionally cleaned and they tell us the glass on the inside of the vanity mirror is cracked. Our mistake was to not check inside that stupid cabinet when we did the walk thru... So we tell the renter we're going to deduct it from his deposit to replace the unit. It's maybe 200 bones tops. So here's how he responds.

"I sincerely hope we don’t go down this road as I have done as I told you. If we can’t agree then I will also go after the two days of rent reimbursement for the days I turned over the residence to you as to help get you new tenant in the duplex and also seek additional damages for the change of plans with work (that's actually not true, he moved out and the apartment was vacant until the 1st). Shall I keep going. Trust me there are a few other things up my sleeve that you really don’t want me to pull out. Remember we are not the kind of people who fit with you tenants. I have every email and every text and I promise I will do everything possible to make things totally difficult for the future. I have deep contacts that I have developed over the last couple of years and I am done playing. No threats here just proof I have and I saved it all for this time. Please forward the deposit as agreed and I will go away. Please respond as I need to know how to proceed tomorrow."

Is this extortion? It's definitely a threat. We've had no issues either, so him keeping the texts and e-mails make no sense. Great, you have the text I sent you that the dryer repair guy is coming by today... I don't know how to handle this one. 200 bucks here, on a $1500 rental. He claims he didn't break it, but the cleaners are emphatic it was broken when they cleaned.

Thoughts?

I've received numerous messages like this. One time a tenant even called the cops on me while delivering a 5-day notice. I used to get riled up about it and respond in kind, which just unnecessarily escalates the situation. Then I came to realization that 1. 99% of people who threaten to sue haven't the slightest idea what that entails and never do, and 2. They have much less to lose than I, so there's no point in escalating things to the point of a fistfight or shootout.

I'd ignore the message all together. You have your money, and if he wants it he'll have to sue. Respond only when you get served a summons, otherwise call his bluff by moving on. If you've crossed your T's and dotted your I's you don't legally have much to worry about, and frankly if he does sue you, you might as well just pay the $ to avoid losing more time and money to prove yourself right in court. No point in calling the police either unless there are direct threats (IE I'm coming to kill your daughter at 123 Main Street if I don't get paid by tomorrow).

2 Reply

Clint ShelleyPro Member

Surveyor · Dothan, AL · Member since 2014 · 425 posts · 391 votes

7y

I'll piggyback on @Dennis M. : "your arrogance offends me, and for that, it'll cost you another 10%." 😝

Clint

2 Reply

Jonathan W.

Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 512 posts · 301 votes

7y

@Jim Morris you got some prettrenters good advice already

I’ll just say, when people feel powerless they go overboard and try to act like they do.

He clearly is delusional and thinks he has power. The old saying, look strong when weak, look weak when strong. Pretty much applies here.

He seems vindictive and this is probably a great reason why landlords use P.O boxes and never let tenants know about their personal life.

:) lord carefully

0 Reply

Timothy Gagnon

Southcoast MA · Member since 2019 · 12 posts · 1 vote

7y

He's being petty and unreasonable, but then again maybe so are you over $200. What did they mean when they said "I told you we're not the type of renters you rent to" was the experience poor for them due to other tenants on the property?

With that said I'd send him the Notice of Payment Due with your attorney's business card stapled to it and instructions for mailing the check. Good luck =).

0 Reply

Account Closed

Specialist · Paradise Valley, AZ · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @Anthony Wick:

@Jim Morris

Everybody else handled what to do. Now, no texting?! Of course I text! You will actually limit your rental pool nowadays if you don’t. Young people text. What’s next, no advertising on social media? Now, if it needs to be a legal or official matter, I tell them to email or mail me. For example, I send email as official notice for new lease, move out, etc. The other day a tenant text me their shower wasn’t working. We text back and forth a couple times and I determined it was probably the shower diverter. Text them back what I think it is and when I’ll come by to fix it. Easy and quick.

Heck yea I text. I won a court case because I could prove what transpired. (I have software that downloads Texts and Voicemails and was able to produce the evidence).

My best threat was:

"Grab your gun and I'll meet you out in the desert. You pick the place, we're gonna resolve this right now".

Granted it was over a little more than a cracked bathroom mirror, but I nicely explained to him that I don't socialize with loonies in the desert. After I texted that I now was turning the threat over to the police, he disappeared and no problems since.

By the way, I take an extensive number of photos on my phone for the move in, give them a copy at move in with their agreements, and put the originals in the property's folder on my computer with appropriate notations. Then if we have any issues we can look at the photos. It saves a lot of hassles.

2 Reply

Jim Morris

OP

Rental Property Investor · NC · Member since 2018 · 29 posts · 11 votes

7y

What software do you use to download texts and voicemails? Sounds like something worth having.

0 Reply

Account Closed

Specialist · Paradise Valley, AZ · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @Jim Morris:

What software do you use to download texts and voicemails? Sounds like something worth having.

I Use Decipher Tools.

https://deciphertools.com/

Disclaimer: I am not associated with this company and I do not receive royalties but I sure wish I had been in on the ground floor.

0 Reply

Anthony Wick

Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes

7y

@Caleb Heimsoth

Did you just say don’t ever text with a tenant and also don’t charge them if they don’t want you to?

0 Reply

Alex KhanPro Member

Specialist · Southeast Michigan · Member since 2015 · 300 posts · 244 votes

7y

@Jim Morris obviously the guy really needs the 200 more than you be the bigger man and if you didn’t notice it in the walkthrough then it is what it is.

If it was me. I’d split it with the guy give him 100 I’m sure that would be better than nothing. It’s not worth loosing the sleep at night. The people that have nothing to loose can be very dangerous people.

248-979-8119

1 Reply

Martin Morales

Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2017 · 47 posts · 25 votes

7y

@Dennis M you had me and my wife laughing!!! great letter!

0 Reply

Bryan S.

Rental Property Investor · CA · Member since 2018 · 225 posts · 180 votes

7y

@Jim Morris regardless of his text, if you cannot prove it was the cleaners or the tenant I think you’re SOL.

1 Reply

Caleb Heimsoth

Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @Anthony Wick:

@Caleb Heimsoth

Did you just say don’t ever text with a tenant and also don’t charge them if they don’t want you to?

Let me clarify. I meant don’t allow a tenant to have you actual cell phone. If you want to set up a google voice or have a separate number for tenants (that goes to the Same phone). That’s fine, but to give tenants your normal cell number is generally a bad idea.

I think you charge tenants when it makes sense but for 200 bucks to deal with a difficult case like this, and potentially (albeit it unlikely) being sued over, seems silly to me, but someone else may feel different.

0 Reply

Kyle Southard

Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 11 votes

7y

This stuff happens a lot with AirBnB...He probably never noticed the mirror was chipped, and is upset with his landlord for ending what sound like an amicable lease with “Hey you owe me a hundred bucks” or something. Of course he’s unjustified in his approach, but if he really rented for a long time and was otherwise a good tenant, he’s just indignant to have gotten hit up for a simple expense like that.

Not saying his pretend gangsterism is OK, of course—I’d be perplexed if I were in your shoes too!

1 Reply

Steve Morris

Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 0 votes

7y

Immediately reminded me of this: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/navy-seal-copypasta

While I haven't had this happen to me yet, my parents owned a rental and had a similar experience. The end of their story is that they received a final check with a middle finger stamped on it. Tells you what kind of person that was that had a middle finger rubber stamp. My parents found this amusing because back then processed checks got returned to the issuer. Following this my father kept a newspaper article he found detailing dollar amounts of what you're allowed to charge tenants out of their security deposit (and beyond if necessary), most people don't realize it's quite extensive. Whenever he had a dispute he would just send the tenant a copy of the article and that was invariably the end of it. You might consider sending his deposit via certified mail, which always denotes an air of legality. On the other end of the spectrum my college roommate and I once received our full security deposit plus several hundred dollars. The apartment was spotless when we left, we mopped the floors, Chloroxed the entire kitchen, etc. It was move-in ready when we were done. Took us half a day and we figured the property manager gave us what he would have spent on a cleaning company.

0 Reply

Ann North

Rental Property Investor · Wayzata · Member since 2019 · 80 posts · 24 votes

7y

Originally posted by @Jim Morris:

Gentlemen, this is great insight...

Um, and Ladies ? ;-)

1 Reply

Eric L.

Rental Property Investor · Royersford, PA · Member since 2018 · 25 posts · 19 votes

7y

@Jim Morris $200?!? A roll of duct tape to fix the mirror doesn’t cost $200. If it’s inside the cabinet, I would remove it and not replace it (this costs $0), write a check for the full deposit, stink palm it, and send it to your ex-tenant.

1 Reply

Phil Sotelo

Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2010 · 13 posts · 2 votes

7y

@Jim Morris I had a client a while back threaten to put a lis pendens on the property. They got their deposit back.

1 Reply

Alissa Engel

Great Falls, MT · Member since 2017 · 97 posts · 172 votes

7y

@Jim Morris

I’m not a gentleman, but gonna chime in on the “gentlemen’s conversation” anyways.

At least make it difficult for him due to his little tantrum. I hate being threatened, so I make it a point to give them the figurative “middle finger.”

1. Ignore.

2. If he contacts you via a lawyer....ignore.

3. If he files in small claims....maybe pay him then. But at that point, he had to earn that money and pay a lawyer...lol.

4. If I’m feeling snarky...I might go to small claims to teach him a lesson. You should win if you followed all laws and documented correctly.

3 Reply

Judy Murphy

Investor · Copper Center, Alaska/Indiana · Member since 2018 · 44 posts · 33 votes

7y

Whoa....am I missing something here? If you "failed" to check the inside of the vanity on the (exit) walk-through inspection, did you also "fail" to examine the inside of the vanity prior to renting? Do you know for a FACT that the vanity was broken while this tenant was occupying the residence? Innocent until proven guilty... A tenant for 5 years with smooth sailing...hmm...I just might let such a small amount be a learning opportunity for you. Next time it might behoove you to do the walk through with a checklist in hand...

4 Reply

Nick Bolding

Realtor · Memphis, TN · Member since 2018 · 19 posts · 9 votes

7y

@Jim Morris

I work in Property Managemebt and I hear these emails, texts and phone calls at least 20 times per day.

In my opinion $200 isn’t worth the head ache.... but on the other side, I like to stick to my guns (morally speaking).

So if I know I am in the right as long as you did all that was required of you by your state laws with the inspection, notice of repairs, property documentation of property condition before and after and you weren’t a slumlord while renting it out, then they don’t have any trucks up their sleeves and will be stuck paying your court costs when they lose.

It’s also very dependent on your state and if it’s a landlord friendly or tenant friendly state. Some states are pro tenant which makes general sessions cases a pain for owners.

0 Reply

Randy E.

Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

7y

Originally posted by @Jim Morris:

Team-

We've had a really smooth 5 years of renting until now. My head is still spinning a little over the text we received from our tenant that just moved out. They have been good renters over the year, so I'm really surprised by this. All of this for "up to $200". The simple back story. The renter moves out, we inspect the apartment, it seems fine, we have the apartment professionally cleaned and they tell us the glass on the inside of the vanity mirror is cracked. Our mistake was to not check inside that stupid cabinet when we did the walk thru... So we tell the renter we're going to deduct it from his deposit to replace the unit. It's maybe 200 bones tops. So here's how he responds.

"I sincerely hope we don’t go down this road as I have done as I told you. If we can’t agree then I will also go after the two days of rent reimbursement for the days I turned over the residence to you as to help get you new tenant in the duplex and also seek additional damages for the change of plans with work (that's actually not true, he moved out and the apartment was vacant until the 1st). Shall I keep going. Trust me there are a few other things up my sleeve that you really don’t want me to pull out. Remember we are not the kind of people who fit with you tenants. I have every email and every text and I promise I will do everything possible to make things totally difficult for the future. I have deep contacts that I have developed over the last couple of years and I am done playing. No threats here just proof I have and I saved it all for this time. Please forward the deposit as agreed and I will go away. Please respond as I need to know how to proceed tomorrow."

He claims he didn't break it, but the cleaners are emphatic it was broken when they cleaned.

Thoughts?

I have a slightly different take most of the others. I agree with Splitrock.

You said that, at walk-through, you did not notice the damage in question. I assume you then told the tenant (or implied) that he would be receiving a full refund of his security deposit.

At this point, stop and look at it from the tenant's point of view. If you inspected the unit and he was told he would receive full deposit, but he later was blindsided with a $200 deduction, that would have made him feel you were taking advantage of him. That feeling might have made him respond as many landlord here on BP say they respond: with force to demand what they want and think is fair. At this point, you look to him as just another "greedy landlord trying to harass the poor tenant."

My opinion is if you did indeed tell the tenant he was to receive a full refund, you should refund the deposit in full. It is not his fault you missed the supposed damage. After all, it is entirely possible the damage occurred after you performed the walk-through. You really don't know.

The mistake of missing the supposed damage was yours -- as such, you should bear the cost.

7 Reply

Max T.

Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

7y

@Randy E. and @Joe Splitrock

I never do the walkthrough with the tenant present for a few reasons:

1. scheduling

2. to avoid this situation - some damages are found right away, others found during the turnover process. I tell my tenants where to leave the keys and when they can expect the return of their deposit minus damages beyond wear and tear.

I agree with you about how the tenant here probably felt swindled due to the OP doing the walk through with him present and then coming back later with damages.

0 Reply

Has anyone been extorted/threatened for the deposit back?

Has anyone been extorted/threatened for the deposit back?

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