Would you evict a 102 year old woman?

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Would you evict a 102 year old woman?

Joe A.Business Member
Realtor · Waco, TX · Member since 2018 · 76 posts · 80 votes

https://www.foxnews.com/us/102-year-old-california-woman-evicted-so-landlords-daughter-can-move-in

This guy is evicting a 102 year old woman so his daughter can move in to the apartment. The woman had been living there for 30 years! I know what I’d do. What would you do?

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
7y

I think they're pretty generous giving her 90 days to move. 

I think the real crime here is that families no longer take care of their elderly. It's cool she's able to live on her own but that's going to change any day now. If I had a relative that age, I would be encouraging them to move in with me so we could keep an eye on them and help them. I certainly wouldn't leave them out on their own, paying rent and exposed to unscrupulous contractors or landlords or door-knockers or whatever.

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  • Syed H.
    Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Ann North:

    @Joe A. No.

    No, I would not.

    Also, for those who blindly think rent control is bad -- it isn't. In some cities, it's necessary. If you don't want to be a landlord in rent control don't own where there is rent control. I lived through the condo conversion craze in Los Angeles and it wasn't fun. If it goes statewide, that's a different story. I doubt it ever will. Many ppl in California really stretch the ethical boundaries of "normal" interactions.

     Rent control is wrong. Regardless of what city. Many economists agree. If you take a huge portion of the housing supply and subsidized the rent, it increases rent for everyone else. Rent control isn’t fair especially when expenses aren’t controlled either. These cities don’t care about raising their property taxes as needed. 

    Also rent control is a contributing factor to condo construction. Many developers don’t build rentals because of Rent control and would rather build condos. 

    1Reply
  • Albert Ng
    Rental Property Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 401 posts · 221 votes
    7y

    @Anthony Rosa

    It’s the effect of rent control. Without rent control, landlords love long term tenants. With rent control, landlords target students, ... who won’t stay for too long & would be very happy when their long term tenants move.

    I personally know a guy who rented a 3 bed / 2 bath apartment in San Francisco for a long time & paying less than $500/month. He has a couple houses, but still hand on to his apartment.

    0Reply
  • Anthony Rosa
    Rental Property Investor · New York City · Member since 2019 · 703 posts · 538 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Albert Ng:

    @Anthony Rosa

    It’s the effect of rent control. Without rent control, landlords love long term tenants. With rent control, landlords target students, ... who won’t stay for too long & would be very happy when their long term tenants move.

    I personally know a guy who rented a 3 bed / 2 bath apartment in San Francisco for a long time & paying less than $500/month. He has a couple houses, but still hand on to his apartment.

    I'm not a fan of rent control at all. Plenty of people live in apartments in upscale Manhattan buildings paying pennies when comparing market rent to the exact unit.  The rent control tenants abuse the system and try to pass-on the apartment to family for generations.  Its a landlords dream to get rid of rent control.  Many times the rent collected won't even cover the expenses for the unit. On the other hand, rent control was already in place when the landlord bought the building.  

    0Reply
  • Chris Miller
    Member since 2018 · 83 posts · 26 votes
    7y

    @Brian Ellis. I’m assuming the owner is a new owner with much higher mortgage than previous owner. I’ve been in similar circumstances and if rent is half of what it should be or way under market I definitely see the dilemma for the new owner, especially if they’re negative on the property substantially. Hopefully she could handle a rent increase?

    0Reply
  • Steve B.
    Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Anthony Wick in all fairness there is probably no correlation between what any of these posters say and what they would actually do. These “moral and ethics” questions are only as material as to when someone actually has to make a real decision, otherwise people will justify and rationalize any narrative which makes them feel good.

    1Reply
  • Ann North
    Rental Property Investor · Wayzata · Member since 2019 · 80 posts · 24 votes
    7y

    @Syed H. I get that owners and landlords don't like rent control but it's necessary in places like Los Angeles. People spend over 60% of their income on housing and even then - it doesn't cover it. They will roll it out to apply to older properties. The reality of living there and personal experience I know 1000% it is necessary. We went through three condo conversions and were forced to move each time. Due to rent control (when I was in graduate school) we were paid $3000 to move which barely covered the move and it was an immediate request. The owners didn't care, they sold the unit for around $110 million right before the bubble burst. Most of the tenants didn't even know about the rent control division but I did and I was glad to have it. There were so many condo conversions there were no rentals available. Back then in LA, tear downs were $800,000. This is the reality. Then good, hard working people and smart people, like grad students, just flee the city as soon as they can. Rent control has its place, but I realize I won't convince anyone. I'm also a landlord but I also respect people trying to make a living and live.

    0Reply
  • Ryan IngramBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2017 · 247 posts · 225 votes
    7y

    I most certainly would not.

    1Reply
  • Solomon Amusan
    Investor · Savannah, GA · Member since 2016 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    @Joe Alford

    0Reply
  • Solomon Amusan
    Investor · Savannah, GA · Member since 2016 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    I will evict any tenant for failure to pay rent not for my daughter.

    SAA

    0Reply
  • Eric Lau
    New York, NY · Member since 2019 · 60 posts · 82 votes
    7y

    When my daughter is 30, I’ll be 67

    By then she might even have a child of her own.

    Maybe a ugly divorce

    Or lost of job.

    I might have health issues of my own. and want my child closer to assist but do not have enough room at my current residence.

    So many factors that can justify why this is being done.

    So, will I do it myself....does one or more of the condition i listed above a factor?

    Answer will be: it really depends on the situation.

    But I think it is wrong to use age here or any other time.

    We’re always quick to say do not age discriminate or any discrimination for that matter. If anyone of us was presented with the ability to do an eviction based on a situation without age being one of them . And had every law in our favor to do so. We would.

    So why use age as a factor to make your decision here.

    What if the article read, landlord evicts because of religious beliefs that differs. And landlord has the ability to evict. What will you say then? But throw in age and all of a sudden it’s a no no.

    0Reply
  • Cody L.
    Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Alan Grobmeier:

    @Cody L. I would rather deal with 'realz', not speculation.  If that was the case I probably  would sold out of CA a LONG time ago.  ;-)

    Yup, there is the 'looming threat of rent control'.  There is possible repeal of Prop 13, which would HAMMER me.  

    If Prop 13 gets repealed I MIGHT have a decision to make.  In the meantime I'll collect my cash.  ;-)

     Totally agree.  I guess the devils advocate position would be if something like that happens where you're motivated to sell, that same factor will be motivating many others at the same time (and will be spooking buyers).  So if I really thought something was about to smack me in the face I might just move before I got smacked.

    Luckily for me I just live in this basketcase state.  I don't invest here :)

    0Reply
  • Cody L.
    Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Trudy Pachon:

    We deal in a business that by it's very nature is emotional. We deal in people's homes. Their places to live. This business can be tricky, and IMHO, should be dealt with humanely and conscientiously. We are not selling TVs here. We are ****ing with people's lives.

    In California, where I am from and run my apartments, landlords are perceived of as being greedy and immoral. (we are about to possibly get statewide rent control) We landlords all need to seriously consider the consequences of these perceptions and our actions. The folks in this business would do well to think about the moral and ethical implications and not just the bottom line. 

    Imagine the positive story if this was a story about a landlord that helped this 102 year old woman instead of evicting her? I don't know enough about the dynamics of this particular story, but I would love to see some stories of landlords doing positive things. I think everyone would benefit from that! 

     "Imagine the positive story if this was a story about a landlord that helped this 102 year old woman instead of evicting her?"

    Sadly positive stories like that don't get published.  :(

    Personally I'd let her stay.  But it's because I'm in a position to do so.  I wouldn't begrudge someone that wasn't in the same position.  For all I know the guy is having a hard time paying for the property. It's hard enough to cash flow in LA.  I can only imagine if you add a 30 year below-market rent tenant into the mix.

    0Reply
  • Daniel Townsend
    Flipper/Rehabber · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2019 · 75 posts · 53 votes
    7y

    @Joe Alford not to sound cruel, but at 102 does she have many years of life left? I’d keep her. Shes been paying rent, but probably won’t be for another 3-5.

    0Reply
  • Johnelle Kincannon
    Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 15 votes
    7y

    NO 

    0Reply
  • Aaron Lewis
    Rental Property Investor · Washington, DC · Member since 2017 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    @Brian Ellis You're the first sane person I've seen on here yet. This business is about more than NOI.

    1Reply
  • Jordan Autrey
    Real Estate Broker · Houston, TX · Member since 2019 · 84 posts · 12 votes
    7y

    I would Evict my mom! It’s business or personal

    0Reply
  • David Dachtera
    Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Joe A.:

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/102-year-old-california...

    This guy is evicting a 102 year old woman so his daughter can move in to the apartment. The woman had been living there for 30 years! I know what I’d do. What would you do?

    Yes, there ARE times when you have to look beyond the numbers.

    Sure, you can evict the centenarian. What will that cost you in the long run?

    Goodwill in the local business community?

    Standing in the community at-large?

    Willingness of others to cooperate with you and/or partner with you? 

    Unfavorable press / media coverage? Might lenders call their loans due when they see it?

    I have a question I've always liked to ask which has been known to cause boardrooms to fall silent for minutes: "How much money can you AFFORD to 'save'?"

    In this case, I would modify that to: "How much can you afford to lose as a result of a 'good business' decision?" (Reference: Charles Dickens: "A Christmas Carol". Fiction, true, but it gets the point across better than I ever could).

    My $0.02 ...

    2Reply
  • Sam Trentwood
    Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2018 · 34 posts · 20 votes
    7y

    If she lived there and paid rent for 30 years and still paying rent, she paid off that property on your behalf. I wouldn’t evict here. She is 102, let her live happy for the rest of her life.

    0Reply
  • Shiva Bhaskar
    Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 523 posts · 476 votes
    7y

    I live in LA, about a 25 minute drive from this property, so I know the area. I saw the landlord interviewed on TV, and from what he said, sounds like the property was inherited (I would guess he's in his late 40's or early 50's, so his parents probably owned it).  He brought up the point of taking care of family, i.e. his daughter who is in law school. I get where he's coming from, but 102, always paid on time - at her age, we know she won't be around for very long, so why not just let her stay there, and finish out her final years in peace. Being a landlord IS about money and cash flow, of course - but it's not the only consideration. 

    I also agree with what others have said, about how this reflects poorly on him, both professionally and personally. I mean, our former governor Schwarzenegger is speaking out about this, plenty of local politicians, etc. I am sure other landlords are looking at this and quietly cursing this guy for bringing so much bad publicity, given what the political environment for rental property owners is like in LA, the Bay Area and so on. Even in a big city, the world isn't that big. We can all say "I don't care what other people think", and sometimes that is the right mindset, but if you're going to be in certain businesses (this one for sure), reputation matters. I think he thought short term when he should've been thinking long. 

    2Reply
  • Lynnette E.
    Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Daniel Townsend:

    @Joe Alford not to sound cruel, but at 102 does she have many years of life left? I’d keep her. Shes been paying rent, but probably won’t be for another 3-5.

     And the landlord may have been hoping for this for  decade already!  She seemed pretty healthy and with it in the photos.

    0Reply
  • Colby Dwayne Wood
    Centralia, IL · Member since 2016 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    After 30 years in my opinion she’s probably paid for the house. If not paid for it twice.

    I understand Bussiness but now you’re simply talking being greedy.

    0Reply
  • Lynnette E.
    Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Colby Dwayne Wood:

    After 30 years in my opinion she’s probably paid for the house. If not paid for it twice.

    I understand Bussiness but now you’re simply talking being greedy.

     In CA it would depend on how it titled when it was inherited.  Maybe Prop 13/inherited property has not had the taxes reset.  But if the taxes were reset then she may not even be paying the taxes, let alone the insurance for the property.  Remember her rent rate was set 30 years ago when the house was first rented and much less value.  And it may not have been increased at even the small level that rent control allows.

    I inherited property from an aunt and that is not an allowed transfer to keep the Prop 13 tax rate, so I had an $8,000 increase in taxes for the partial year and sold it before I had to pay for the full year increase.  That was LA County, CA.

    0Reply
  • John Macner
    Member since 2019 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    Hey guys

    I have a property that I'm trying to get under contract .

    I spoke with the owner yesterday.

    The property was for his mother who passed away 3 years ago .

    and left 3 kids, so he was the one to control the deal.

    The mother took an equity loan for or on the property. ( I don't really know what he meant).

    The house is going to auction probably in a month and this dude doesn't know how much is owed on the property because he stopped paying the mortgage.

    How do I know how much equity in the property? Do I have to pay an attorney or title company to make the research for me?

    I asked the guy to reach out to his bank so they can send him the judgement payoff/ and back payment.

    0Reply
  • Jacob Fitzgerald
    Realtor · Angleton, TX · Member since 2019 · 87 posts · 39 votes
    7y

    @Joe Alford If it was between a paying faithful tenant or my daughter. I would choose the tenant.

    WHY!?!?!?

    1) Tenant (if) faithful for 30 years deserves to live her last few in the place she feels comfortable

    2) daughter needs to grow in responsibility

    I can honor both generations the elder and the new at the same time!

    2Reply
  • Chad Bellanger
    Rental Property Investor · Thibodaux, LA · Member since 2019 · 32 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Joe Alford as a investor in Real estate he would be crazy but if he just owns the house and needs it for family...i see nothing wrong with that....i see people saying well why dont he just buy another house to put her in.... I say who would want to inquire more debt that later on in life when one is preparing for retirement....

    0Reply
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