tenant keep water flow, end up with large water bill to landlord
Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 0 votes
tenant keep water flow, end up with large water bill to landlord
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@Zocky Zhang just to clarify the water does not have to be the landlord's responsibility in Philly. It's true that the water stays in the landlord's name and that it is a lien-able item on the property, but you can pass the costs back to the tenant.
I don't include water in my rentals any more. Tenant's are responsible for all utilities. Each month the water invoice gets forwarded to the tenant and it becomes "rent due" with the next rent payment. That way if there's a $700 water bill it;s totally the tenant's responsibility.
Prior to this, I used to have it in my leases that I covered the first $30 of the water bill (this was a long time ago when water was generally included as part of the rent) and any amount over that was the tenant's responsibility. $30 at that time covered more than enough usage for a family. If anything was over $40 the same thing happened then that happens now, the bill was forwarded to the tenant with an invoice letting them know it was due with the next month;s rent.
For this, I agree with @Patricia Steiner, it's a perfect time to go in and check out the property. Make sure there isn't a leak or anything. Try and schedule it with them but if not, let them know that you consider this an emergency and will be entering to perform a leak inspection.
16 Replies
- Real Estate Broker · Temecula, CA · Member since 2014 · 994 posts · 783 votes7y
You could probably take him to small claims court about it.
Write a letter to tenant stating you will pursue for excessive water use.
I dont think you can turn it off without a court order. Maybe see if you can get one.
- Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes7y
No...a landlord cannot turn off utilities:
"It is illegal for a landlord to interfere with or cut off any "vital service". This includes hot or cold water, fuel, electricity, natural gas, and heat."
But I do recommend that you schedule an inspection of the townhouse to check for any leaks (broken pipe, running toliet, etc.); bring a handyman or someone to serve as an independent/expert. I would also see how many people are living there (as discreetly as I could; maybe drive-by in the evening as well). And, I would share the bill with the tenant and ask for an explanation.
It's never easy. Hang in there.
- Rental Property Investor · Reading, PA · Member since 2019 · 76 posts · 43 votes7y
@Zocky Zhang no you can't in force it unless it's In the lease. But why you waited two months if their 5 days late you can start the eviction process and get them out in 28 days
- Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 0 votes7y
Originally posted by @Ricardo L Knight:
@Zocky Zhang no you can't in force it unless it's In the lease. But why you waited two months if their 5 days late you can start the eviction process and get them out in 28 days
well, we talked to an attorney 6 months ago for an eviction and the tenant brought the rent current at that time. now the tenant is late again, and according to attorney, it's not easy to set up a case if tenant is only late for 5 days. ( we can charge late fee for that so ).
we just get to know the last month water bill, very surprised but quite common of a pissed off tenant abusing water.
right, unfortunately i can't requeset to turn off water in philly.
not sure how to get it back after evict them.
Originally posted by @Zocky Zhang:
is there an option I can do now? in Philadelphia, water is the landlord's responsibility.
I did a search and did not find anything that said it is the responsibility of the landlord to pay for water. Only thing I found is that water is a requirement of habitability, but nothing said it had to be in the landlords name. I could easily be wrong, buy why do you believe it is the requirement of the landlord?
Not sure of the exact procedure in your specific area, but something to the effect of bringing the water bills to the court when evicting and ask the court for the judgment to include the cost of excess water. People will use water within a reasonable expectation. You should be able to easily show that after the eviction their water usage went from being normal to being spiteful. Most judges aren't stupid and will easily be able to see that their usage went from 100 gallons a day to 2,600 gallons a day after the eviction and will hold the accountable for the costs.
- 7yJoseph ODonovanPro MemberProperty Manager · Ridley, PA · Member since 2017 · 427 posts · 449 votes
@Zocky Zhang A couple questions for you then a few comments. According to your lease who is responsible for paying for the water? Whose name is the water bill in? If the lease states the tenant is responsible for the water then you can include that in your L/T complaint along with past due rents. Also, a $700 water bill for a 1400 sq ft house is extremely excessive. Either that's a bad reading or you have a leak in the house or your tenant has a faucet continuously running. Have you been able to get in the house to troubleshoot the water issue? And lastly, your attorney gave you terrible advice re eviction. You should absolutely start the process as soon as your tenant is late by giving them a 10 day notice and proceed from there. While Philadelphia is not a Landlord friendly city, that shouldn't stop you from protecting your asset. Best of luck.
@Zocky Zhang just to clarify the water does not have to be the landlord's responsibility in Philly. It's true that the water stays in the landlord's name and that it is a lien-able item on the property, but you can pass the costs back to the tenant.
I don't include water in my rentals any more. Tenant's are responsible for all utilities. Each month the water invoice gets forwarded to the tenant and it becomes "rent due" with the next rent payment. That way if there's a $700 water bill it;s totally the tenant's responsibility.
Prior to this, I used to have it in my leases that I covered the first $30 of the water bill (this was a long time ago when water was generally included as part of the rent) and any amount over that was the tenant's responsibility. $30 at that time covered more than enough usage for a family. If anything was over $40 the same thing happened then that happens now, the bill was forwarded to the tenant with an invoice letting them know it was due with the next month;s rent.
For this, I agree with @Patricia Steiner, it's a perfect time to go in and check out the property. Make sure there isn't a leak or anything. Try and schedule it with them but if not, let them know that you consider this an emergency and will be entering to perform a leak inspection.
- 7yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
I agree that you need to do an inspection. See if the water company can come out. If there is a leak, you can talk to them and they may discount the bill for the month.
I'm with PJ, that the tenant should pay for utilities. I have a rental where the water company won't bill the tenant, so every two months when I get the bill, I pay for it and then let the tenants know how much they owe me and they add it to the next month's rent.
- Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 0 votes7y
Originally posted by @PJ M.:
@Zocky Zhang just to clarify the water does not have to be the landlord's responsibility in Philly. It's true that the water stays in the landlord's name and that it is a lien-able item on the property, but you can pass the costs back to the tenant.
I don't include water in my rentals any more. Tenant's are responsible for all utilities. Each month the water invoice gets forwarded to the tenant and it becomes "rent due" with the next rent payment. That way if there's a $700 water bill it;s totally the tenant's responsibility.
Prior to this, I used to have it in my leases that I covered the first $30 of the water bill (this was a long time ago when water was generally included as part of the rent) and any amount over that was the tenant's responsibility. $30 at that time covered more than enough usage for a family. If anything was over $40 the same thing happened then that happens now, the bill was forwarded to the tenant with an invoice letting them know it was due with the next month;s rent.
For this, I agree with @Patricia Steiner, it's a perfect time to go in and check out the property. Make sure there isn't a leak or anything. Try and schedule it with them but if not, let them know that you consider this an emergency and will be entering to perform a leak inspection.
yes, the water is tenant's responsibility per our lease agreement, but i have heard many landlord's experience that tenant abusing water and never paid water bill before eviction and landlord end up paying 3k+ water bill, and never get the money back from tenant, though court cases are filling against tenants.
seems philly are protecting the tenants too much. definitely.
@Zocky Zhang if your lease has the water as the tenant's responsibility and you are in an eviction, you add the costs to the amounts due when damages comes up. True, if it's collectible is a different matter, but if you keep the judgment open and the tenants every try to buy a house or refinance a mortgage, the bank will want that settled and clear before they'll lend.
- Real Estate Broker · Northeast PA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes7y
This is just another example of how some tenants can screw both novice and experienced landlords.
Sure, you can go to court, get a judgment. Then go back home and paste it on the wall.
That being said, it is something WE ALL MUST DO as landlords. Pin the tail on that donkey, and it will put out a warning for all other landlords to be aware of dirty dealers: Tenants who are angry with an owner because of an eviction caused by the tenant's lack of responsibility to pay the rent.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Greg M.:
Originally posted by @Zocky Zhang:
is there an option I can do now? in Philadelphia, water is the landlord's responsibility.
I did a search and did not find anything that said it is the responsibility of the landlord to pay for water. Only thing I found is that water is a requirement of habitability, but nothing said it had to be in the landlords name. I could easily be wrong, buy why do you believe it is the requirement of the landlord?
Not sure of the exact procedure in your specific area, but something to the effect of bringing the water bills to the court when evicting and ask the court for the judgment to include the cost of excess water. People will use water within a reasonable expectation. You should be able to easily show that after the eviction their water usage went from being normal to being spiteful. Most judges aren't stupid and will easily be able to see that their usage went from 100 gallons a day to 2,600 gallons a day after the eviction and will hold the accountable for the costs.
what happens in many markets in the Northern part of the country.. is the water and sewer bills if not paid attach to the property as liens.
out in the west this is not the case. if the tenant does not pay their water bill it gets shut off.. in those rust belt cities the city who owns the utl wont turn it off for any reason.. ergo you have abuses.. and tenants know it.
- Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 0 votes7y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
Have you added a clause in your lease that states the security deposit will not be returned until all the utility bills are paid completely. If so you can later deduct it from the security deposit when the tenant leaves.
yes it has, but given the fact we cannot collect more than 2 months as security deposit here in PA, i don't think it is sufficient to just cover more than 2 months of water bill, assume no other damage made to the house.
The fact that you have a 700 bill, means either significant abuse by Tenant or another water related issue.
Even without payment, this should give you an valid reason to to visit the property and figure out what exactly is happening. If it's the tenants wasting the water, then get your lawyer to post the notice to quit right away and be prepared for the eviction.
As prior posters, mentioned you can file a judgment and the chance to collect maybe low, but the key is to secure your property and ensure no further damage is being done to it at the moment.
- Member since 2019 · 23 posts · 0 votes7y
i'm not sure if this remedy is too aggressive but seems in PA landlord can seek damage compensation from tenant's pay check.
does anyone have ever used this to get back the loss from tenants?
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