Contract left back doors open and I am out $2,000 in appliances

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Contract left back doors open and I am out $2,000 in appliances

Remington LymanBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes

A contractor put in barn doors in my out-of-state client’s duplex that I am managing in Columbus, Ohio near The Ohio State University.I guess they left the back doors opened because when I went to do a tour today they were unlocked and 1 fridge and 2 stoves were missing.

I replaced the deadbolts in case they somehow got keys. I ordered replacement appliances from Lowes and they are coming in tomorrow. I am out $2,200.

What would you have done to prevent this?


Bonus pictures of the sweet doors 

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Stephen J DavisBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2017 · 529 posts · 467 votes
6y

@Account Closedwow, harsh. Too funny. I have had over 100 houses at a time and over 4000 apartment units. In 30 years I have never let a contractor in and out. What a low quality of lifestyle to be running to property every time a contractor needs in. If you can prove that the contractor did it, ask them to pay. Probably won't get anything but worth a try. Don't use them again as a rule.

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @John Manner:

    Hey @Remington Lyman that sucks. Did they leave the doors wide open or just forget to lock it? Besides the mobile security system, you can install a smart lock while it's being worked on. Most of them have a timer setting to auto-lock. Contractors could have individual codes too so you have an audit of who opened the door and when. Replace when rented or leave for the tenant. Other than that, I have used a cellular hunter cam on a more rural property when it was being rehabbed. Those have to be secured as they are theft items too!

    Or just meet them every time and never have a life.

    Those are all great suggestions. I ordered some motion-sensing alarm systems for the 5 vacant units I have right now.  

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  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Remington Lyman

    Wait a minute.. you are an agent and PM and you hire contractors with no insurance? And then you complain about having to shell out $2200 for appliances?

    Contractors insurance is cheap. I pay $800/year for $2mil liability and that includes extra $ for residential snow plowing. If you are hiring uninsured guys, as a PM no less, I have zero sympathy for you. Sorry..

    2Reply
  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Matt M.:

    @Remington Lyman

    Wait a minute.. you are an agent and PM and you hire contractors with no insurance? And then you complain about having to shell out $2200 for appliances?

    Contractors insurance is cheap. I pay $800/year for $2mil liability and that includes extra $ for residential snow plowing. If you are hiring uninsured guys, as a PM no less, I have zero sympathy for you. Sorry..

    I am not complaining and I admit I made a mistake. It could have been way worse and I am grateful I only need to cover the $2,200. I made this post so I could get feedback on how I can learn from this mistake. If I kept quiet about this error, I would not have gotten the feedback you just gave me about not hiring uninsured contractors.

    I appreciate your comment!

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  • Jason BottPro Member
    Insurance Agent · Nationwide · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Remington Lyman @ $2200 I feel like it's just part of doing business.

    Either you save $ with hiring uninsured contractors and trusting them

    or 

    You hire insured contractors and show up at each job which is increases your contractor costs and your time. 

    Now if this was a $15k loss, then it's a little harder to rationalize.

    For future reference, there are several ways insurance may have or could have provided coverage if policies were in place.  

    1)  File a claim under your (insured) contractors policy - no deductible paid by you

    2) File a claim under your Property Management's E&O policy - usually a $5k deductible.

    3)  File a claim under your Property Management's property policy - at least a $500 deductible

    4)  Property Owner files a claim under the property policy.  They would need to have Business Personal Property coverage to cover appliances - cost...your relationship with the client.

    Best of luck moving forward! 

    2Reply
  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jason Bott:

    @Remington Lyman @ $2200 I feel like it's just part of doing business.

    Either you save $ with hiring uninsured contractors and trusting them

    or 

    You hire insured contractors and show up at each job which is increases your contractor costs and your time. 

    Now if this was a $15k loss, then it's a little harder to rationalize.

    For future reference, there are several ways insurance may have or could have provided coverage if policies were in place.  

    1)  File a claim under your (insured) contractors policy - no deductible paid by you

    2) File a claim under your Property Management's E&O policy - usually a $5k deductible.

    3)  File a claim under your Property Management's property policy - at least a $500 deductible

    4)  Property Owner files a claim under the property policy.  They would need to have Business Personal Property coverage to cover appliances - cost...your relationship with the client.

    Best of luck moving forward! 

     Thank you for the tips!

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  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Remington Lyman

    Sorry if I was harsh, but it’s not worth the risk to save a few dollars hiring cheaper, unlicensed uninsured contractors. 
    Any PM I’ve ever worked for has needed a W9 and proof of insurance before I can step foot on a property they manage. I’d suggest you go that route going forward. 

    3Reply
  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    6y

    **** happens. It isn't always someones fault. Thieves steal things, its going to happen. It is what it is. 

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  • Joseph Walsh
    Brookfield, WI · Member since 2016 · 191 posts · 108 votes
    6y

    This seems like the perfect case for smart locks.  Not only can you give the contractor's temporary keys, you can connect remotely and lock if unlocked.  I bet you can even schedule some kind of "autolock" feature.  That said, I've never used them myself.  But the question was how to prevent a contractor leaving a door unlocked, might be a solution.  I bet some AirBnB veterans here would have some insight to their value.  And the fact that a contractor was there was a signal to someone to check the locks after they left.  It's sad, but the times we live in these days.

    3Reply
  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Matt M.:

    @Remington Lyman

    Sorry if I was harsh, but it’s not worth the risk to save a few dollars hiring cheaper, unlicensed uninsured contractors. 
    Any PM I’ve ever worked for has needed a W9 and proof of insurance before I can step foot on a property they manage. I’d suggest you go that route going forward. 

    That makes sense. I will need to look into this. I cannot imagine that people are using all licensed and insured people for painting and general maintenance.

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    **** happens. It isn't always someones fault. Thieves steal things, its going to happen. It is what it is. 

    Yup! Sucks but it is part of the business. 

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joseph Walsh:

    This seems like the perfect case for smart locks.  Not only can you give the contractor's temporary keys, you can connect remotely and lock if unlocked.  I bet you can even schedule some kind of "autolock" feature.  That said, I've never used them myself.  But the question was how to prevent a contractor leaving a door unlocked, might be a solution.  I bet some AirBnB veterans here would have some insight to their value.  And the fact that a contractor was there was a signal to someone to check the locks after they left.  It's sad, but the times we live in these days.

    I will need to check with my broker about this. He does a similar thing with all of his units.

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  • Evan Polaski
    Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Remington Lyman Another option, I have been looking into for my flips are Arlo Go cams.  I am sure there are other options out there, but I have used Arlo cams for a business I used to own, and found them reliable and easy to install.  

    It is basically a wireless security camera with a built in LTE connection so you don't have to have wifi to run them.  Not the cheapest, but they go up easily and come down, and you throw them where you need them.  


    If you have wifi, that you provide at the properties, you can go with the standard Arlo cam, and there is no monthly fee.

    1Reply
  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Evan Polaski:

    @Remington Lyman Another option, I have been looking into for my flips are Arlo Go cams.  I am sure there are other options out there, but I have used Arlo cams for a business I used to own, and found them reliable and easy to install.  

    It is basically a wireless security camera with a built in LTE connection so you don't have to have wifi to run them.  Not the cheapest, but they go up easily and come down, and you throw them where you need them.  


    If you have wifi, that you provide at the properties, you can go with the standard Arlo cam, and there is no monthly fee.

    Thank you for the suggestion! 

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  • Brian Roberts
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2018 · 34 posts · 25 votes
    6y

    @Remington Lyman

    Have you thought about keyless entry options for your rental? The one on my personal home locks automatically when the door closes. It's not a smart lock either. No wireless needed. A 4 digit pin gets you in and out. After construction/remodel/tenant turnover you can have your maintenance guy change the pin.

    2Reply
  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Brian Roberts:

    @Remington Lyman

    Have you thought about keyless entry options for your rental? The one on my personal home locks automatically when the door closes. It's not a smart lock either. No wireless needed. A 4 digit pin gets you in and out. After construction/remodel/tenant turnover you can have your maintenance guy change the pin.

    I need to look into this option. Thank you!

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    Less than 24 hours and $2,400 later I have the replacements in!

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  • Luciano A.
    Developer · Houston TX · Member since 2018 · 423 posts · 400 votes
    6y

    @Remington Lyman

    Great looking doors. When I have an empty property or have contractors working in them I normally put in my SimpliSafe alarm. I can use app to turn on and off alarm. I also use a camera that uses t-mobile prepaid SIM card to help give me real time video of the property. Hope contractor is willing to chip in and help because hard to prove they left open.

    Best of luck

    1Reply
  • Will C.
    Rental Property Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 279 posts · 133 votes
    6y

    @Patrick Snyder

    Check out Wyze cameras! Very inexpensive and they set up in minutes.

    2Reply
  • Ryan S.
    Rental Property Investor · Ontario, Canada · Member since 2020 · 6 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    Super nice of you to cover your contractors screw up, if the contractor had the keys and there is no sign of forced entry I would just do a back-charge for a portion or all of the cost of replacement depending on the age of the stolen appliances since 1 the doors were left unlocked or 2 his people ripped you off. 

    I know of more than one worker who has stolen something as payment for work when the contractor or owner of the business stiffed them on pay.  

    1Reply
  • Ryan Proffit
    Saint Joseph, MO · Member since 2018 · 401 posts · 244 votes
    6y

    @Remington Lyman were you clear with them that the doors needed to be locked every single time? Did you make sure to press the importance of doing so? What did the contractor say when you notified them of the situation?

    1Reply
  • Ted Rud
    Rental Property Investor · Fargo, ND · Member since 2017 · 17 posts · 18 votes
    6y

    When working with smaller contractors, we typically use lock boxes and change the code when each contractor is done with their portion of the project... although that won't necessarily make the contractor lock the door on their way out. Like others mentioned, it's best to make sure the contractor is licensed, insured, and has a clear idea of what your expectations are when it comes to the end product, timeline, and the conduct in which they get there.

    I would contact your contractor and let them know what the issue is and ask them how they would like to handle the situation. They might simply say "We locked the door, we have no fault in this" and then you're back to square 1 (unless you can somehow prove that they are at fault). If they are honest and in good faith, they might be willing to pay for the "stolen" appliances or be able to provide you with some sort of compensation. When it comes to these types of situations, be observant on how the contractor decides to handle things... it can be a big tell on whether or not they are genuine and are someone you should consider working with in the future!

    2Reply
  • Ted Rud
    Rental Property Investor · Fargo, ND · Member since 2017 · 17 posts · 18 votes
    6y

    One last train of thought - You might also want to consider going over expectations with your out of state investor. If I were in your shoes, I definitely wouldn't want to come up with the dime for paying on something like this. Just like modifying a lease over time, doing business is a process of learning/failing/adjusting. Now that you've had a relatively minor "fail," it's time to adjust so that you are in a much better position next time something like this comes up down the road! Best of luck!

    1Reply
  • Syed H.
    Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    I do like the barn doors, though.

    That’s horrible advice. Maybe when you are small, sure that works.

    I Invest in 3 states, with over 5-7 job sites at any given time. It would be impossible to be there just to let someone in. 

    OP’s mistake was letting in an unlicensed contractor with no one else there, but honesty this **** happens. Once you do it long enough and do enough volume, **** happens. 

    2Reply
  • Anthony Rosa
    Rental Property Investor · New York City · Member since 2019 · 703 posts · 538 votes
    6y

    Maybe a neighbor has a camera and it picked up the thief(s) or saw something?  

    At the end of the day you are responsible because you hired the contractor(s) whether they were licensed or not.  This is only 2K! Imagine how the landlord feels when the PM keeps renting to lousy tenants and the landlord won't see positive margins for years. 

    How many contractors did you hire? Are different companies going in and out? How many keys were given out?  

    A competent person needs to go throughout the house to make sure the house is empty before locking up.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2019 · 119 posts · 151 votes
    6y

    @Remington Lyman I call that TUITION. Everyone on here has made dozens of mistakes and in doing so, we evolve our business and investment strategies. It makes us better. It certainly won't be the last mistake you make, but take all insight (some with a grain of salt) and learn and improve! I know you will!

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