Contract left back doors open and I am out $2,000 in appliances

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Contract left back doors open and I am out $2,000 in appliances

Remington LymanBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes

A contractor put in barn doors in my out-of-state client’s duplex that I am managing in Columbus, Ohio near The Ohio State University.I guess they left the back doors opened because when I went to do a tour today they were unlocked and 1 fridge and 2 stoves were missing.

I replaced the deadbolts in case they somehow got keys. I ordered replacement appliances from Lowes and they are coming in tomorrow. I am out $2,200.

What would you have done to prevent this?


Bonus pictures of the sweet doors 

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Stephen J DavisBusiness Member
Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2017 · 529 posts · 467 votes
6y

@Account Closedwow, harsh. Too funny. I have had over 100 houses at a time and over 4000 apartment units. In 30 years I have never let a contractor in and out. What a low quality of lifestyle to be running to property every time a contractor needs in. If you can prove that the contractor did it, ask them to pay. Probably won't get anything but worth a try. Don't use them again as a rule.

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  • Linda S.
    Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Remington Lyman,

    Your story reminds me so much of mine...  We bought a house that was vacant for 5-yrs, and hired a new contractor to replace the subfloor.    Again, it was vacant, people could have broken  in before.   Only 1 day into the job, they come to me "someone broke in and stole the plumbing" frantically.     Of course I'm like, crap, okay, I  guess plumbing was added to the list... called the cops, they said they couldn't do anything.    I'll never forget, they left a 1" piece of copper pipe in the area where they were working.       Contractor have the knowledge and tools/skills to steal@  Cost me $2,500.

    Moral of the Story-- If they are reputable, they will at least split the cost or pay for all of it as it was their error, or if they aren't--- consider this the cost of your lesson and find a trust worthy contractor.    I'd also get some camera, either real or fake to put up to at least deter it.    Sorry this happened!

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Member since 2018 · 78 posts · 63 votes
    6y

    @Remington Lyman what about the smart locks where you can make sure it’s locked from your phone? If you have enough clients maybe this is something you do for each property? I’m not sure if you are a property manager or what exactly your role is. Sorry that happened though.

    1Reply
  • Shane H.
    Member since 2018 · 433 posts · 208 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Remington Lyman:
    Originally posted by @Patrick Snyder:

    Does your contractor have insurance?  He should, and it should cover his mistake.  If not, he ought to step up and make it right for you

    Asfor prevention, being there would solve it, but that's not always feasible.  Maybe keep a camera in the vacant units?

    This contractor does not have insurance so it is on me. I will not be using them again. Thanks! I will look into getting a camera. 

     I would think you're using the term contractor loosely if they don't have insurance...

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  • Shane H.
    Member since 2018 · 433 posts · 208 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Remington Lyman:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Been present to let them in and out.

    You let everyone of your contractor in and out of your properties? I personally own 14 units and manage about 30 units for my clients. Unfortunately I cannot be at every job site to let each contractor in and out.  

     Then, I guess you will suffer losses like this on a regular basis.  

    You asked how to avoid losses like this.  Whining about how hard your job is probably isn't the answer. And probably isn't a big selling point for anyone on BP to want to hire you to manage their properties.

    I do like the barn doors, though.

     Someone doesn't like the passive part of passive income....

    1Reply
  • Kathy Calderini
    Lender · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2019 · 58 posts · 31 votes
    6y

    @Remington Lyman those barn doors are sweet!

    Have you ever thought of putting in a security system with cameras? Tracks who comes and goes with individual codes. Adding a camera allows for visual of activity as well. Well worth the investment, can use as a value add for either tenants or buyers.

    Just a suggestion.

    Cheers,

    Kathy

    0Reply
  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Luciano A.:

    @Remington Lyman

    Great looking doors. When I have an empty property or have contractors working in them I normally put in my SimpliSafe alarm. I can use app to turn on and off alarm. I also use a camera that uses t-mobile prepaid SIM card to help give me real time video of the property. Hope contractor is willing to chip in and help because hard to prove they left open.

    Best of luck

    Smart. Thank you for the advice!

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Will C.:

    @Patrick Snyder

    Check out Wyze cameras! Very inexpensive and they set up in minutes.

    Thank you! I have made a list of all the camera suggestions.

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  • Account Closed
    Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 861 posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Remington Lyman:
    Originally posted by @Matt M.:

    @Remington Lyman

    Sorry if I was harsh, but it’s not worth the risk to save a few dollars hiring cheaper, unlicensed uninsured contractors. 
    Any PM I’ve ever worked for has needed a W9 and proof of insurance before I can step foot on a property they manage. I’d suggest you go that route going forward. 

    That makes sense. I will need to look into this. I cannot imagine that people are using all licensed and insured people for painting and

    The people commenting on this are being brutal! I am not sure if anyone I hire is licensed, but the way I do things I usually know where they live. (Lots of skilled trades guys here in N Linden) I also do use Simplisafe and also go around anywhere guys have been working each evening to check progress and locks.. i also never give them keys and use lockboxes only as long as absolutely necessary.

    Word of warning about simplisafe... they kind of bait and switched me on their advertised fees and the camera. The fees are notably higher from advertised if you want to use their app, which is BS, and their camera only works if there is internet available, which they misinformed me about when I called to ask before buying. I use them anyway but dont really reccomend them for these reasons.  

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ryan S.:

    Super nice of you to cover your contractors screw up, if the contractor had the keys and there is no sign of forced entry I would just do a back-charge for a portion or all of the cost of replacement depending on the age of the stolen appliances since 1 the doors were left unlocked or 2 his people ripped you off. 

    I know of more than one worker who has stolen something as payment for work when the contractor or owner of the business stiffed them on pay.  

    Unfortunately, it was a subcontractor so no boss to go to.

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ryan Proffit:

    @Remington Lyman were you clear with them that the doors needed to be locked every single time? Did you make sure to press the importance of doing so? What did the contractor say when you notified them of the situation?

    No, I forgot to tell them to lock the doors when they left the site. I also forgot to tell them to remember to breathe, drink water, and eat. 

    They said they thought they remembered to lock the doors but they would pay it back to me in work on my other properties. I have studied the sunk cost fallacy though 

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ted Rud:

    When working with smaller contractors, we typically use lock boxes and change the code when each contractor is done with their portion of the project... although that won't necessarily make the contractor lock the door on their way out. Like others mentioned, it's best to make sure the contractor is licensed, insured, and has a clear idea of what your expectations are when it comes to the end product, timeline, and the conduct in which they get there.

    I would contact your contractor and let them know what the issue is and ask them how they would like to handle the situation. They might simply say "We locked the door, we have no fault in this" and then you're back to square 1 (unless you can somehow prove that they are at fault). If they are honest and in good faith, they might be willing to pay for the "stolen" appliances or be able to provide you with some sort of compensation. When it comes to these types of situations, be observant on how the contractor decides to handle things... it can be a big tell on whether or not they are genuine and are someone you should consider working with in the future!

    Thank you for the advice! This was the first time I worked with them and while they got the job done, I had to field about 10 calls from them. I will not be using them again. They said they thought they locked the doors. I will not be working with them in the future. 

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  • Ryan Proffit
    Saint Joseph, MO · Member since 2018 · 401 posts · 244 votes
    6y

    @Remington Lyman some people aren’t smart enough to breath on their own.

    1Reply
  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Ted Rud:

    One last train of thought - You might also want to consider going over expectations with your out of state investor. If I were in your shoes, I definitely wouldn't want to come up with the dime for paying on something like this. Just like modifying a lease over time, doing business is a process of learning/failing/adjusting. Now that you've had a relatively minor "fail," it's time to adjust so that you are in a much better position next time something like this comes up down the road! Best of luck!

    I feel like it was my fault. I hired the contractor. I should have to pay for it. It was not enough damage to pull the insurance card.

    I definitely learned a lot from it and will take steps to prevent this in the future. 

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Syed H.:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    I do like the barn doors, though.

    That’s horrible advice. Maybe when you are small, sure that works.

    I Invest in 3 states, with over 5-7 job sites at any given time. It would be impossible to be there just to let someone in. 

    OP’s mistake was letting in an unlicensed contractor with no one else there, but honesty this **** happens. Once you do it long enough and do enough volume, **** happens. 

    Yeah, I am going to get burned like this. The important thing is I learn from it and take steps to prevent it from happening less often.

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Anthony Rosa:

    Maybe a neighbor has a camera and it picked up the thief(s) or saw something?  

    At the end of the day you are responsible because you hired the contractor(s) whether they were licensed or not.  This is only 2K! Imagine how the landlord feels when the PM keeps renting to lousy tenants and the landlord won't see positive margins for years. 

    How many contractors did you hire? Are different companies going in and out? How many keys were given out?  

    A competent person needs to go throughout the house to make sure the house is empty before locking up.


    Thank you for the suggestion. 

    I know I am responsible. I took on the responsibility of hiring the contractor. I paid for the replacements out of my own pocket.

    It was just two people (a guy and a girl). They had access to the lockbox. I changed the locks and the code after I found out what had happened.

    Unfortunately, this is a campus neighborhood. It was also in the back of the house in an ally so I doubt anyone saw anything.

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

     If only I had a better mentor all of this could have been prevented...

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    That makes sense. I will need to look into this. I cannot imagine that people are using all licensed and insured people for painting and

    The people commenting on this are being brutal! I am not sure if anyone I hire is licensed, but the way I do things I usually know where they live. (Lots of skilled trades guys here in N Linden) I also do use Simplisafe and also go around anywhere guys have been working each evening to check progress and locks.. i also never give them keys and use lockboxes only as long as absolutely necessary.

    Word of warning about simplisafe... they kind of bait and switched me on their advertised fees and the camera. The fees are notably higher from advertised if you want to use their app, which is BS, and their camera only works if there is internet available, which they misinformed me about when I called to ask before buying. I use them anyway but dont really reccomend them for these reasons.  

    You never give your contractors keys?

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  • Jeff C.
    Real Estate Broker · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2018 · 269 posts · 597 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Remington Lyman:

    Less than 24 hours and $2,400 later I have the replacements in!

    Dude. I absolutely would not have put these back in until the moment of move in. There's no reason for them to be there. Even on my flip properties I advertise them with "new appliances included, to be installed at close of escrow". To have brand new appliances sitting around in vacant properties, and then advertising that fact online by posting pictures of said properties along with addresses, is just asking for trouble. That said, on the rare occasion that we do have them in we try to make sure there are window coverings on any window from which the appliances can be seen, and also have some SimpliSafe alarm systems that we move from property to property. 

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Linda S.:

    @Remington Lyman,

    Your story reminds me so much of mine...  We bought a house that was vacant for 5-yrs, and hired a new contractor to replace the subfloor.    Again, it was vacant, people could have broken  in before.   Only 1 day into the job, they come to me "someone broke in and stole the plumbing" frantically.     Of course I'm like, crap, okay, I  guess plumbing was added to the list... called the cops, they said they couldn't do anything.    I'll never forget, they left a 1" piece of copper pipe in the area where they were working.       Contractor have the knowledge and tools/skills to steal@  Cost me $2,500.

    Moral of the Story-- If they are reputable, they will at least split the cost or pay for all of it as it was their error, or if they aren't--- consider this the cost of your lesson and find a trust worthy contractor.    I'd also get some camera, either real or fake to put up to at least deter it.    Sorry this happened!

     Thank you for the advice! They are definitely not reputable. So I just paid for all of it myself. I ordered an alarm system!

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Shane H.:
    Originally posted by @Remington Lyman:
    Originally posted by @Patrick Snyder:

    Does your contractor have insurance?  He should, and it should cover his mistake.  If not, he ought to step up and make it right for you

    Asfor prevention, being there would solve it, but that's not always feasible.  Maybe keep a camera in the vacant units?

    This contractor does not have insurance so it is on me. I will not be using them again. Thanks! I will look into getting a camera. 

     I would think you're using the term contractor loosely if they don't have insurance...

     The person I contracted to do a job.

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Remington Lyman what about the smart locks where you can make sure it’s locked from your phone? If you have enough clients maybe this is something you do for each property? I’m not sure if you are a property manager or what exactly your role is. Sorry that happened though.

    This is probably something I am going to recommend to my clients in 6 months after everything is rented. 

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Kathy Calderini:

    @Remington Lyman those barn doors are sweet!

    Have you ever thought of putting in a security system with cameras? Tracks who comes and goes with individual codes. Adding a camera allows for visual of activity as well. Well worth the investment, can use as a value add for either tenants or buyers.

    Just a suggestion.

    Cheers,

    Kathy

     Thank you for the suggestion. I ordered an alarm system for all of my vacant units.

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Shane H.:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Remington Lyman:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Been present to let them in and out.

    You let everyone of your contractor in and out of your properties? I personally own 14 units and manage about 30 units for my clients. Unfortunately I cannot be at every job site to let each contractor in and out.  

     Then, I guess you will suffer losses like this on a regular basis.  

    You asked how to avoid losses like this.  Whining about how hard your job is probably isn't the answer. And probably isn't a big selling point for anyone on BP to want to hire you to manage their properties.

    I do like the barn doors, though.

     Someone doesn't like the passive part of passive income....

     lol

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  • Remington LymanBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jeff C.:
    Originally posted by @Remington Lyman:

    Less than 24 hours and $2,400 later I have the replacements in!

    Dude. I absolutely would not have put these back in until the moment of move in. There's no reason for them to be there. Even on my flip properties I advertise them with "new appliances included, to be installed at close of escrow". To have brand new appliances sitting around in vacant properties, and then advertising that fact online by posting pictures of said properties along with addresses, is just asking for trouble. That said, on the rare occasion that we do have them in we try to make sure there are window coverings on any window from which the appliances can be seen, and also have some SimpliSafe alarm systems that we move from property to property. 

     I kind of wanted them in there to show the property to tenants. I am going to make sure all of the blinds are drawn when I show the property tomorrow.

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  • Jeff C.
    Real Estate Broker · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2018 · 269 posts · 597 votes
    6y
     Originally posted by @Remington Lyman:
    Originally posted by @Jeff C.:
    Originally posted by @Remington Lyman:

    Less than 24 hours and $2,400 later I have the replacements in!

    Dude. I absolutely would not have put these back in until the moment of move in. There's no reason for them to be there. Even on my flip properties I advertise them with "new appliances included, to be installed at close of escrow". To have brand new appliances sitting around in vacant properties, and then advertising that fact online by posting pictures of said properties along with addresses, is just asking for trouble. That said, on the rare occasion that we do have them in we try to make sure there are window coverings on any window from which the appliances can be seen, and also have some SimpliSafe alarm systems that we move from property to property. 

     I kind of wanted them in there to show the property to tenants. I am going to make sure all of the blinds are drawn when I show the property tomorrow.

    Not worth it. I've bought enough sets of appliances twice to know. Sometimes I do have my virtual stager pop them into place on the photos. On rare occasion do I violate this. One that sticks out was a unique higher end property where a big Viking range was a showpiece of the kitchen. I not only installed an alarm on that house, I bought a GPS tracking device and affixed it under the range. If that stove started moving I was going to know about it immediately.

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