Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
A contractor put in barn doors in my out-of-state client’s duplex that I am managing in Columbus, Ohio near The Ohio State University.I guess they left the back doors opened because when I went to do a tour today they were unlocked and 1 fridge and 2 stoves were missing.
I replaced the deadbolts in case they somehow got keys. I ordered replacement appliances from Lowes and they are coming in tomorrow. I am out $2,200.
@Account Closedwow, harsh. Too funny. I have had over 100 houses at a time and over 4000 apartment units. In 30 years I have never let a contractor in and out. What a low quality of lifestyle to be running to property every time a contractor needs in. If you can prove that the contractor did it, ask them to pay. Probably won't get anything but worth a try. Don't use them again as a rule.
Less than 24 hours and $2,400 later I have the replacements in!
Dude. I absolutely would not have put these back in until the moment of move in. There's no reason for them to be there. Even on my flip properties I advertise them with "new appliances included, to be installed at close of escrow". To have brand new appliances sitting around in vacant properties, and then advertising that fact online by posting pictures of said properties along with addresses, is just asking for trouble. That said, on the rare occasion that we do have them in we try to make sure there are window coverings on any window from which the appliances can be seen, and also have some SimpliSafe alarm systems that we move from property to property.
I kind of wanted them in there to show the property to tenants. I am going to make sure all of the blinds are drawn when I show the property tomorrow.
Not worth it. I've bought enough sets of appliances twice to know. Sometimes I do have my virtual stager pop them into place on the photos. On rare occasion do I violate this. One that sticks out was a unique higher end property where a big Viking range was a showpiece of the kitchen. I not only installed an alarm on that house, I bought a GPS tracking device and affixed it under the range. If that stove started moving I was going to know about it immediately.
Damn, that is intense. I will start off with this alarm system I bought. If it gets broken in with that I will most likely charge the owners. I will also probably upgrade security from there.
A contractor put in barn doors in my out-of-state client’s duplex that I am managing in Columbus, Ohio near The Ohio State University.I guess they left the back doors opened because when I went to do a tour today they were unlocked and 1 fridge and 2 stoves were missing.
I replaced the deadbolts in case they somehow got keys. I ordered replacement appliances from Lowes and they are coming in tomorrow. I am out $2,200.
What would you have done to prevent this?
Bonus pictures of the sweet doors
Some credit cards offer purchase protection so if you used a credit card you can check to see if the items were covered. After that you can do what has already been suggested and ask the responsible party to take responsibility. Going forward you could try something like simplisafe
Worst case, you eat the loss and learn a lesson which you can use to modify your approach, communication and expectations going forward. Good luck!
A contractor put in barn doors in my out-of-state client’s duplex that I am managing in Columbus, Ohio near The Ohio State University.I guess they left the back doors opened because when I went to do a tour today they were unlocked and 1 fridge and 2 stoves were missing.
I replaced the deadbolts in case they somehow got keys. I ordered replacement appliances from Lowes and they are coming in tomorrow. I am out $2,200.
What would you have done to prevent this?
Bonus pictures of the sweet doors
Some credit cards offer purchase protection so if you used a credit card you can check to see if the items were covered. After that you can do what has already been suggested and ask the responsible party to take responsibility. Going forward you could try something like simplisafe
Worst case, you eat the loss and learn a lesson which you can use to modify your approach, communication and expectations going forward. Good luck!
That is a great idea. If they get stolen again I am going to try to go that route.
I’m pretty sure they have doors that you can unlock or lock right on your phone. Tells you if they are locked or unlock and if the door is open or closed. A security system would also notify you if the door is open or closed on your phone.
I’m pretty sure they have doors that you can unlock or lock right on your phone. Tells you if they are locked or unlock and if the door is open or closed. A security system would also notify you if the door is open or closed on your phone.
A contractor put in barn doors in my out-of-state client’s duplex that I am managing in Columbus, Ohio near The Ohio State University.I guess they left the back doors opened because when I went to do a tour today they were unlocked and 1 fridge and 2 stoves were missing.
I replaced the deadbolts in case they somehow got keys. I ordered replacement appliances from Lowes and they are coming in tomorrow. I am out $2,200.
What would you have done to prevent this?
I think you definitely need to grab some security cameras and signs to place on the exterior of the project to notify passersby that the property is under observation. Cameras and signs are important because even if the contractor manages to lock the door, that doesn't necessarily stop intruders. Recently, I've seen quite a bit of flips/rehabs get broken into (kicking the door down) and the thieves stole things such as the appliances and any tools/materials on the premises. Hopefully, it doesn't happen again!
Lots of good comments about how to properly secure your property and manage contractors.
My cost effectective way to detour burglars would be to buy some security signs on ebay for a securtiy company (e.g. Vivnt, SimpliSafe, ADT) and then some "Dummy" cameras. Cameras that look like real cameras but are really just plastic inside and have a wire that you tuck inside the siding to make it look real. I would then place the cameras in some blatantly obvious places that they are there.
In the end theft happens and is a cost of business.
@Sue K. Very harsh , people have lives ! Even myself , I cannot simply let every contractor in and out !
But, if I pay you to be the manager of my property, I expect you to take care of it. I don't want to hear that you have better things to do, with your hand out for your payment, while telling me the loss is all mine.
I mean really? You would tell me that you have lives and you can't make sure my property is safe when that's what I hired you to do?
If a property manager can't handle the number of properties they have alone, they need to hire help. People place a lot of trust in a PM and this attitude is what gives them a terrible name. I'm just shaking my head.
Okay Okay hold up... I get he is unlicensed and uninsured, that it was a mistake to hire him. But before we get too far into stiffing the possibly innocent guy, how are you going to do that without proving they stole anything? Stiffing someone who did work for you for reasons not based on their work is pretty low... If it's not possible to know either way, I would do what OP did and just eat the cost myself for hiring someone uninsured.
Hypothetical question for all you stiffers out there: I am licensed and insured and if I did this work and left, then got an upset call from you, came back and this was the scenario.. how do I know you're not a scammer and moved your appliances into the locked garage in the back and want new ones off my insurance for your unit next door? Are you more right because... why? You need proof of something when you accuse them.
For all you know someone saw it was vacant/empty and broke in, casually hauled the stuff into their truck in broad daylight like they were movers and are currently selling the appliances a county over on Craigslist
You let everyone of your contractor in and out of your properties? I personally own 14 units and manage about 30 units for my clients. Unfortunately I cannot be at every job site to let each contractor in and out.
Then, I guess you will suffer losses like this on a regular basis.
You asked how to avoid losses like this. Whining about how hard your job is probably isn't the answer. And probably isn't a big selling point for anyone on BP to want to hire you to manage their properties.
I do like the barn doors, though.
Someone doesn't like the passive part of passive income....
There's no such thing as passive income from a property where you've hired a property manager. You will have to manage the manager. The idea is that they will lighten your load, but don't ever expect to not have a finger on the pulse of your business, unless you want to lose money.
Just think of all of the really wealthy superstars who have lost everything because they trusted a manager completely.
The real problem is that the PM industry has somehow been created in a way that is completely unrealistic. It's ridiculous to think that someone will do the job of managing a property for only 8 - 10% of the rent. Even if the rent is $3,000/month, you're talking about only $300 a month. The only way to make that work, is to work as few hours as possible - or - charge crazy fees for other things. The system needs to be changed to where there's a good compensation for a manager for creating a good profit for the owner. As it stands now, a PM makes more money by putting a bad tenant into a property, charging crazy fees for all of the problems and then the eviction, on and on.
I see the point that it's hard to do a good job with 30+ properties and afford help. That doesn't make it okay to be neglectful. But, owners need to start compensating PMs realistically so they can do a good, honest job.
"The system needs to be changed to where there's a good compensation for a manager for creating a good profit for the owner."
The good profit for owner comes from the numbers in the original deal on the property and the market rent prices. So from where else, if not the owner, would they be getting the good compensation in this new system? And if it's from the owner, why would I be paying them anything outside the scope of what's involved in the numbers I originally ran to make my property cash-positive?
"The system needs to be changed to where there's a good compensation for a manager for creating a good profit for the owner."
The good profit for owner comes from the numbers in the original deal on the property and the market rent prices. So from where else, if not the owner, would they be getting the good compensation in this new system? And if it's from the owner, why would I be paying them anything outside the scope of what's involved in the numbers I originally ran to make my property cash-positive?
If we were to get an honest survey done by people who were ripped off by bad PMs, and we took those numbers - what they all actually lost, and then used that as a basis for figuring out a better compensation set-up for PMs, I think you'd see that there is room in that picture for better compensation for PMs.
For instance, I was ripped of on my first rental, my daughter was ripped off on her first rental. I don't think we're alone, and we're not stupid people. We were simply trusting people who didn't have knowledge or experience.
So, I lost a couple thousand and this was way back around 1984, my daughter lost about $6,000 in about 2011.
Both situations involved PMs who could call anything an "emergency" if it was under $250, for instance. So, there were tons of emergencies, including changing lightbulbs, all for $249, until the account was empty with no notice to the owner until the call came saying more money is needed in the account.
The system just begs people who are unscrupulous to get into the business, and to turn decent PMs into cheaters - just to get a decent wage.
I'm asking you to think outside the box. Instead of thinking in terms of basing your profits on the old model, why not a new one? If in reality, you'll probably be ripped off by $2,000/year on average by a bad PM who makes more money by putting a bad tenant into your property - what if PM's compensation was based on keeping a property trouble-free? Or a nice bonus at the end of the year for a trouble-free property? You see, there is no real benefit to a PM to find a perfect, trouble-free tenant in the current system.
If you think about it, would you hire any employee you would put in charge of a $200,000 investment and pay them $300/month or less? It doesn't make any sense at all.
I just think the system needs to be changed so that PMs make more money when there are less problems. I know if I hired one to take care of a property, there would be a fat bonus at the end of the year if there were no problems and I was making money because of their good management.
@Account Closed Those ideas sound great, and if it could work in real life I would be all for it. I never said the old system is perfect, just that it is the way it currently works. I would rather have the compensation be performance driven in as many aspects as possible, like many other jobs. You have to be careful what you incentivize however. People often hire PM companies because they're remote. If you give a year-end bonus for no issues, how do you know they're not under-reporting or ignoring incidents to get the bonus? You could be paying out years of higher percentages and bonuses for an equal or worse result than the one you were avoiding. Of course across many other industries there are managers who are managed remotely with better results. But that's because those businesses are set up within an entirely different structure where they are compensated with appropriate salary and benefits that are a viable portion of annual income for the company/owner. It just doesn't work the same, but like I said if someone came up with a better way I would hear them out for sure!
@Account Closed Those ideas sound great, and if it could work in real life I would be all for it. I never said the old system is perfect, just that it is the way it currently works. I would rather have the compensation be performance driven in as many aspects as possible, like many other jobs. You have to be careful what you incentivize however. People often hire PM companies because they're remote. If you give a year-end bonus for no issues, how do you know they're not under-reporting or ignoring incidents to get the bonus? You could be paying out years of higher percentages and bonuses for an equal or worse result than the one you were avoiding. Of course across many other industries there are managers who are managed remotely with better results. But that's because those businesses are set up within an entirely different structure where they are compensated with appropriate salary and benefits that are a viable portion of annual income for the company/owner. It just doesn't work the same, but like I said if someone came up with a better way I would hear them out for sure!
Well, this is why I say investing in rentals isn't really passive income, without great risk. You'd have to actually go see your own properties once in a while to see if the manager is doing his/her job before you gave out a bonus.
You let everyone of your contractor in and out of your properties? I personally own 14 units and manage about 30 units for my clients. Unfortunately I cannot be at every job site to let each contractor in and out.
Then, I guess you will suffer losses like this on a regular basis.
You asked how to avoid losses like this. Whining about how hard your job is probably isn't the answer. And probably isn't a big selling point for anyone on BP to want to hire you to manage their properties.
I do like the barn doors, though.
Someone doesn't like the passive part of passive income....
There's no such thing as passive income from a property where you've hired a property manager. You will have to manage the manager. The idea is that they will lighten your load, but don't ever expect to not have a finger on the pulse of your business, unless you want to lose money.
Just think of all of the really wealthy superstars who have lost everything because they trusted a manager completely.
The real problem is that the PM industry has somehow been created in a way that is completely unrealistic. It's ridiculous to think that someone will do the job of managing a property for only 8 - 10% of the rent. Even if the rent is $3,000/month, you're talking about only $300 a month. The only way to make that work, is to work as few hours as possible - or - charge crazy fees for other things. The system needs to be changed to where there's a good compensation for a manager for creating a good profit for the owner. As it stands now, a PM makes more money by putting a bad tenant into a property, charging crazy fees for all of the problems and then the eviction, on and on.
I see the point that it's hard to do a good job with 30+ properties and afford help. That doesn't make it okay to be neglectful. But, owners need to start compensating PMs realistically so they can do a good, honest job.
I have spoken.
If I have to watch over contractors letting them in and out so I don't have appliances stolen I guess I should quit now. I run a service bbusiness unrelated to real estate, but I have keys, gate codes, ID cards, passwords, everything I need to access other companies property, equipment, and computers. If I can't trust a contractor to that same extent im not hiring them. Maybe I'm being unrealistic, but the contractors who work for some ofy customers have similar access without concern. They're reputable though.
@Account Closed Those ideas sound great, and if it could work in real life I would be all for it. I never said the old system is perfect, just that it is the way it currently works. I would rather have the compensation be performance driven in as many aspects as possible, like many other jobs. You have to be careful what you incentivize however. People often hire PM companies because they're remote. If you give a year-end bonus for no issues, how do you know they're not under-reporting or ignoring incidents to get the bonus? You could be paying out years of higher percentages and bonuses for an equal or worse result than the one you were avoiding. Of course across many other industries there are managers who are managed remotely with better results. But that's because those businesses are set up within an entirely different structure where they are compensated with appropriate salary and benefits that are a viable portion of annual income for the company/owner. It just doesn't work the same, but like I said if someone came up with a better way I would hear them out for sure!
Exactly. I'm thinking how, in the 90's, insurance companies paid bonuses to doctors to keep costs down. Suddenly my second child's severe hearing issues didn't warrant ear tubes. A year later we paid for them out of pocket after another doctor said "why the **** does this child not have tubes yet?" He suffered 25% hearing loss as a result of the delay, and it affected his learning ability. Enough people suffered and DIED due to this brilliant idea that it was quickly abandoned.
I’ve worked around car lots for years and I can tell you first hand that security cameras will just give you a nice videos of someone steeling your **** not stop anything. You need a security system that calls the cops to do anything.
