What grade of paint to use for rentals?

Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes

I have read articles where they highly suggest one uses the highest grade of paint you can afford. This sounds like it is directed towards homeowners? Just curious what quality of paint you use...low, mid, or high end? If mid or high end, why would you justify the extra cost?

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Joel DeLuca

Rental Property Investor · Longview, TX · Member since 2012 · 23 posts · 1 vote

13y

IMO, type makes a bigger difference than price or brand. Never use flat paint on anything other than ceilings. An eggshell or satin off white for walls and semi-gloss for trim. I have used Color Place and it seemed both decent and cheap to me.

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Gene HackerPro Member
Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes
13y
For interiors I use the Color Place premixed off white and white paint that is sold at Walmart. It is inexpensive and covers well.
Because we use the same colors in all of our units, after a move out we can touch up a wall or two without having to repaint everything.
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David NilesBusiness Member
Property Manager · DeLand FL · Member since 2012 · 860 posts · 243 votes
13y
Low end paint is garbage, its watery, doesnt cover well and isnt washable ( tenants get anything on the walls, it will leave marks if they try to wash it. )

High end is throwing money away IMO, decent midgrade covers and lasts.
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Joel DeLuca
Rental Property Investor · Longview, TX · Member since 2012 · 23 posts · 1 vote
13y
IMO, type makes a bigger difference than price or brand. Never use flat paint on anything other than ceilings. An eggshell or satin off white for walls and semi-gloss for trim. I have used Color Place and it seemed both decent and cheap to me.
1 Reply
Charles Cline
Contractor · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2012 · 67 posts · 13 votes
13y
It depends how you are going to be apply the paint. I typically use flat on the walls and semi gloss on the doors and trim, thats what my clients want, but from what I understand most investors use something with a sheen on the walls to make it easier to clean. If you are spraying I would use super wall for the flat and versa glow for the semi Gloss. if you are rolling the walls i would upgrade the paint to allow for better coverage. I would get Sparta wall and Sparta glow for the flat and semi gloss. another option is ultra scrub, it is cheaper than the Sparta wall, but has better coverage than the super wall. Theses are all Dun Edwards brands. Hope that helps.

Charlie
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Ryan B.
Investor · -, IL · Member since 2010 · 409 posts · 616 votes
13y
$15/gallon Lucite semi-gloss from Menards. Use it on walls, trim and ceiling of all my rentals. Even the expensive stuff from Sherwin Williams seems to take two coats so might as well use the cheap stuff. Hasn't failed me yet.
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Marcin G.
Chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 93 posts · 12 votes
13y
Originally posted by David Niles:
Low end paint is garbage, its watery, doesnt cover well and isnt washable

$8 a gallon american finest flat. put a generous coat .. and u done. 2 coats if u need ...never had a problem ...best deal ever

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Watson Smith
Investor · Peachtree Corners, GA · Member since 2012 · 131 posts · 83 votes
13y
Exterior: I use sherwin williams super paint (mid grade so your not painting it very other year)

Interior: SW ProMar 400 (low grade but still twice as good as what HD or walmart sells)
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Mark UpdegraffBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Rochester, NY · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 715 votes
13y
No matter what kind of paint you use, if you want a solid finish, you need two top coats. I've used the best Sherwin Williams paint, which is regarded as top notch by professional painters, and it still takes two top coats to meet my standards. In lower end rentals I suppose you could use 1 top coat of Sherwin Williams 200 and it would look good enough. 2 coats of cheap would still cover better. For me, it is all about the consistency of the paint. You want it watery enough to be able to paint quickly, but not so watery that it drips all over the place. As your skills develop you'll be able to use waterier paints better, they're quicker but trickier!

I used Sherwin Williams for years, I was getting a great deal $17 / gallon of primer, and $27 per gallon of top coat.

I decided to start testing other paints and couldn't really find one with a consistency that I liked for hand cutting AND airless spraying / rolling UNTIL.... Kilz started making their Pro X line. Home Depot Carries it, so you get 5% off automatically if you have their commercial card, 10% if you can find a coupon, and 25% once and a while! The price without discount is the best, and for painting rentals it is perfect.

I use Satin Finish for walls and Semi-gloss for trim. If the tenant has grubed it up it is usually easier to wipe with TSP and touch up than try to scrub clean no matter the brand / finish.

IMO Kilz Pro X is good paint at a great price.

See my Blog (linked below) if you want some tips on painting, a lot of people get all carried away with the paint, but their painting skills (or lack thereof) make the job look bad anyway.

I spend more time on prep than I do on Painting. If you aren't, maybe it doesn't matter what kind of paint you buy ;-)

Best,
Mark

blog:
http://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/1172/blog_posts/7401-interior-painting-a-guide-for-a-quick-and-professional-job

http://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/1172/blog_posts/11196-rehab-for-rental-more-tips-and-tricks

http://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/1172/blog_posts/11957-interior-prep-painful-but-necessary

Podcast Guest on Show #112
Updegraff Group Realty4.742 Reviews
Website View Page
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David NilesBusiness Member
Property Manager · DeLand FL · Member since 2012 · 860 posts · 243 votes
13y
Originally posted by Marcin G:
Originally posted by David Niles:
Low end paint is garbage, its watery, doesnt cover well and isnt washable

$8 a gallon american finest flat. put a generous coat .. and u done. 2 coats if u need ...never had a problem ...best deal ever

Sorry Marcin, I wouldnt paint a doghouse with that, its water with a dash of pigment in it.

A friend of mine is the manager of the local HD paint department and would agree with Mark Updegraff on the kilz pro x, says they are getting great reviews from other contractors too.
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Will Browm
Investor · Buford, GA · Member since 2012 · 120 posts · 31 votes
13y
Agree with David. Tried the American Finest in my rehab. Wasted effort after two coats did not cover. I tried the Kilz at my next rehab and it was OK for a rental, not a nice flip. Price is right for the Kilz.
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Ben Leybovich
Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
13y
I use an inexpensive 15-year Olympic paint from a box store in all of my rentals. Some of my guys complain that it is to thin, but I like it. It wears well and is washable. It is thin enough so that I can put it on the ceiling as well as the walls without worrying about the weight of the paint on the ceiling. This saves me a lot of time cutting-in.

I use an off-white in a satin finish. Satin hides imperfections well enough but still pops somewhat. I use a very expensive and thick VALSPAR white in semi-gloss on doors and trim which pops off of the walls very nicely and ties things together. A lot of people disagree with me about Olympic 15-year, but I like it. Try it for yourself.
Hope this helps.

Thank you
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Brad Z.
Investor · Member since 2009 · 132 posts · 30 votes
13y
The Kilz X pro grade at home depot is a great paint at a good price. I use the same tint in a flat wall paint on all units. Its easy to touch up if needed. Its usually around $85 for 5 gallons which is a good value and it covers very well.

http://www.kilzpro-x.com/kilzpro-x/html/english/index.html

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Marcin G.
Chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 93 posts · 12 votes
13y
Originally posted by Will Browm:
Agree with David. Tried the American Finest in my rehab. Wasted effort after two coats did not cover. I tried the Kilz at my next rehab and it was OK for a rental, not a nice flip. Price is right for the Kilz.

2 coats did not cover ? have u prepped the surface (sand it good) ? have you shaken the paint really well (not just mix it with a stick) ? 80% result of painting is in the prep work ..any experienced painter will tell you that. in my opinion all those bears and sherwin williamses is pure marketing ... they feed public with some bs and make u pay more. I am telling u AF does the job. Come to Chicago I will show u ! ;-).
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Marcin G.
Chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 93 posts · 12 votes
13y
Sorry Marcin, I wouldnt paint a doghouse with that, its water with a dash of pigment in it.

A friend of mine is the manager of the local HD paint department and would agree with Mark Updegraff on the kilz pro x, says they are getting great reviews from other contractors too.

I probably would not paint a dog house at all ...pure bastard aint payin the rent !!! he happy I no evict ;-)

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Jim Drolet
Glenwood Springs, CO · Member since 2012 · 3 posts · 0 votes
13y
A big consideration is the labor involved. It costs just as much if not more in labor to spread the cheap stuff. If you get more years of wear and better protection out of the quality paint you can leverage the labor part of the equation and save money in the long run.
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Jerry W.Pro Member
Moderator
Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
13y
I find it interesting that so many are using flat or satin. I have started going to semi gloss for my rentals now and I really like it. I use gloss for bathrooms and kitchens, but semi gloss seems to stay brighter and cleans up so much better in the regular living areas and bathrooms.
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Rob K.
Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y
I switched this year from Sherwin Williams 200 to Killz Pro X. My painter says it's just as good and HD has all of Sherwin Williams' colors in their computer. Sherwin Williams kept raising their prices so much that it was time to switch.

I was talking with the store manager about the economy and he said they were having their best year ever. I told him, "I would also have my best year ever if I raise my prices 50%."
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Britt AbbeyPro Member
Investor · Lowville, NY · Member since 2013 · 65 posts · 18 votes
12y
I also use Kilz Pro-X 330 eggshell for Interior walls and their flat for ceilings in lower income rentals. Turnover tends to be higher, and it's just not cost effective to use SW if I'm having to touch up or repaint often. I've found the Kilz to go on very smoothly without drips. As others have indicated, it's $17.50/gallon at HD without any discounts.

For flips or in my own house, I like the Duration line from SW, but I'll only buy it during their 35-40% off sales, as around me it can run up to $70/gallon.
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Eric Y.
Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 84 posts · 52 votes
12y
@Scott W. I personally use SW Promar 400 for interior stuff and SW Proclassic for all trim work. SW does keep raising prices which is starting to irk me--but definitely jump on an account to get the discounts otherwise you pay through the nose. The 400 is supposed to be "low-middle" paint but I find it spreads better than most of the big box stuff (though I hear good things about valspar and their new tech--haven't used it yet) and the colors look very nice.

The real trick is to buy primer and have them tint it to a similar color (which is ~$10-$12/gal) and prime the walls properly so you can get away with 1 good solid coat of the more expensive topcoat. Doing this I've had fantastic results in my rentals and really drop my cost per painted sqft overall.

As far as big box brands, I had some decent luck with Glidden but they kept upping the price to the point of being significantly less competitive and Behr has just generally been an okay to awful experience. This does vary regionally, though.
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George Paiva
Investor · Milford, CT · Member since 2012 · 592 posts · 285 votes
12y
I used to use Sherwin Williams for years then I got hooked on California paints offered by local supplier that gives good contractor discounts. Good price for good mid-grade paint.

I do flat white for ceilings, egg shell for walls in either a linen or off white, then do semi gloss bright white for trim. I do this in all my rentals. For the first time painting with new turnovers I go in and apply one or two coats of kilz followed up by what I mentioned above.

Here is the breakdown:

Ceiling - Diamond Ceiling white for $19.99.

Wall - CalPro2000 eggshell pastel base for $16.99 gallon when I buy 5.

Trim - CalPro2000 superhide white for $22.99.

I stopped buying paint at HD or Lowes years ago after some bad experiences.

I will have to try the Kilz pro x stuff one of these times.
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Michael S.
Rental Property Investor · Beaufort, SC · Member since 2013 · 82 posts · 7 votes
12y
For those of you who don't use flat paint, if there is a small mark on the wall between tenants do you re paint the entire room? I have heard its impossible to touch-up a small area with anything but flat without having a spot that permanently looks "wet."

and this would be for a mid to high end rental, not the ghetto.
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Eric Y.
Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 84 posts · 52 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Michael S.:
For those of you who don't use flat paint, if there is a small mark on the wall between tenants do you re paint the entire room? I have heard its impossible to touch-up a small area with anything but flat without having a spot that permanently looks "wet."

and this would be for a mid to high end rental, not the ghetto.

I used to do eg-shel on the walls, but I've recently switched to flat. Normally I would just paint to a natural breaking point (corner/light/whatever) if I had to, but usually you can feather it in and match it pretty close. I haven't had a tenant come through with a spotlight checking for flashing in the paint yet. I wouldn't call my rentals high-end, but they're much closer to that spectrum than the ghetto.

On the other side, we'll see how the flat holds up. I do kind of like the look of it better, though.
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Darren Flater
Real Estate Agent · Cedar Falls, IA · Member since 2009 · 38 posts · 17 votes
12y
I use Behr paint from the home depo. I have a paint reward system so the more I buy the cheaper it gets. I use only flat paint for the walls because I can touch up dirty walls without having to repaint the whole thing. That right there is worth it's weight in gold.
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Michael Herr
Peoria, IL · Member since 2011 · 365 posts · 182 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Ryan B.:
$15/gallon Lucite semi-gloss from Menards. Use it on walls, trim and ceiling of all my rentals. Even the expensive stuff from Sherwin Williams seems to take two coats so might as well use the cheap stuff. Hasn't failed me yet.

I never understood people advocating two coats, especially those pros that sell two coats of Sherman Williams. I am a good painter (for someone who isnt a painter) and if I can get a paint job to look great it one coat of Valspar, how does a pro need two coats of Sherman Williams ?

I have used some crappy pnta that have needed 2+ coats.

I always go Behr or Valspar, never do white on walls, never do primer, and never do two coats.
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Britt AbbeyPro Member
Investor · Lowville, NY · Member since 2013 · 65 posts · 18 votes
12y
@Michael Stroup: I've had satin finish paints touch up small marks 5-6 years after the paint was originally applied, and you could never tell the difference (Sherwin Williams Duration in my own home). for my economy rentals, I'm more likely to paint the entire wall to a breaking point (corner) using my go-to eggshell (Kilz Pro-x 330). All of my walls are the same color, and I'm likely going to paint more than one wall. With a 2.5" angle brush for cut-ins and an 18" roller, I can easily put a single coat on 4 walls in an hour.
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