Rent Strike Will Become Psychological Nemesis
Rental Property Investor · Boise/Portland · Member since 2017 · 709 posts · 742 votes
Rent Strike Will Become Psychological Nemesis
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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
6yThis is a common response from someone that is controlled by emotion. You made that statement without first attempting to learn about me. I did grow up poor. My dad died when I was six, raised by a single mom on government cheese, powdered milk, and most of my clothes were hand-me-downs and garage sale finds. I started working in the fields at age 12, right next to illegal immigrants, so I could afford school supplies. All my family grew up in trailers. I thought college and skiing was only for rich kids and never imagined I could be better. I lived paycheck-to-paycheck. I racked up credit card debt. In other words, I knew poverty, embraced it as my reality, and continued making decisions that ensured I stayed there. One day I looked around and realized I wasn't being held down by society or rich people or my circumstances; I was held captive by limiting beliefs and poor choices.
Government handouts have nothing to do with the topic. Two wrongs don't make a right.
A large number of (mostly) low-income wage earners are demanding free rent even though they are likely to make more money, not less, due to the COVID pandemic. If that offends you, feel free to open your rentals up to some low-income people, give them a few months of free rent, and how that ends for you.
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- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes6y
It's based on emotions and greed and has been from the beginning.
The most likely participants are low-income workers. They are most likely going to receive over 100% of their normal income thanks to the stimulus (unemployment plus $1,200 stimulus checks). Their income may be delayed, but they are unlikely to lose anything in the long run. Their response? Demand even more.
This is exactly why stimulus doesn't work. People live paycheck-to-paycheck, failing to budget, save, or invest. Hard times hit, they can't pay their bills, so we bail them out. They will never learn to budget, save, or invest because someone continues to bail them out. This makes them even less likely to improve their lives and creates a more dependent society which means bailouts will have to be bigger the next time.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Matthew McNeil:
I’ve read a few articles reporting that the idea of Rent Strike(s) is gaining momentum. Apparently, advocates have moved past a request seeking deferred payments, or other options, to simply demanding that rent be waived altogether.
My concern is that regardless of whatever is offered in an attempt to explain that LLs have obligations as well, emotions are going to feed this issue and automatic unchallenged waivers of rent will be demanded by tenants on a massive national scale.
In other words, the logic used to counter the argument will not be tolerated. It will become an emotion-fed entrenched position by tenants.This is where you will find out how well your screening process works. The overwhelming majority of my tenants wouldn't participate in anything like this out of principle, which really doesn't change regardless of current economics. In other words, once a bum, always a bum.
Skyline Properties - 6yJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
I treat my tenants very well. I take care of maintenance issues quickly. I cut them slack when they have a problem with rent as long as they communicate with we and they follow they plan they often set.
I have had people thank me for being nice during an eviction know I tried to help them.
I have already had some rent coming in for April. I think a couple will not be able to pay that are in the hositality industry.
They ones getting a disability check or on section 8 will have no problems. I have a teacher, landscaper, gas station manager. These should have no problem.
So it may not be too bad for April. Once we get to a stay at home order it will get a little worse.
I'll survive.
- Real Estate Investor · Chattahoochee, FL · Member since 2014 · 133 posts · 107 votes6y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
It's based on emotions and greed and has been from the beginning.
The most likely participants are low-income workers. They are most likely going to receive over 100% of their normal income thanks to the stimulus (unemployment plus $1,200 stimulus checks). Their income may be delayed, but they are unlikely to lose anything in the long run. Their response? Demand even more.
This is exactly why stimulus doesn't work. People live paycheck-to-paycheck, failing to budget, save, or invest. Hard times hit, they can't pay their bills, so we bail them out. They will never learn to budget, save, or invest because someone continues to bail them out. This makes them even less likely to improve their lives and creates a more dependent society which means bailouts will have to be bigger the next time.
I think you fundamentally misunderstand what it means to be poor. I find your sentiment offensive somewhat. They’ll “demand more?” Who doesn’t? Big Corp certainly is asking for more. Bailout after bailout. Tax cut after tax cut. Where has that gotten the average worker? Shucked over into a gig economy where ends don’t meet and health care suffers. Who reaps the rewards of this? Big CEOs who fail up. Ruin a company and get golden parachutes. This is allowed over and over again while the worker bees get nothing. Yet, when the poor want just a bit more than they have they get denigrated. Smh. As for saving and making a better life that sounds good until you find yourself with three kids who all need clothes and food and you’re a single parent not making enough to get to a point where you can start saving and stop looking at your next check a week away while you’re sitting around broke. I’m not excusing bad behaviors, poor people help to make some Of their own difficulties, but I’m less judgmental than I used to be in my younger days. This is coming from someone who has known hunger a few times in his life. Granted I was a child, but it has helped me to have empathy
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes6y
This is a common response from someone that is controlled by emotion. You made that statement without first attempting to learn about me. I did grow up poor. My dad died when I was six, raised by a single mom on government cheese, powdered milk, and most of my clothes were hand-me-downs and garage sale finds. I started working in the fields at age 12, right next to illegal immigrants, so I could afford school supplies. All my family grew up in trailers. I thought college and skiing was only for rich kids and never imagined I could be better. I lived paycheck-to-paycheck. I racked up credit card debt. In other words, I knew poverty, embraced it as my reality, and continued making decisions that ensured I stayed there. One day I looked around and realized I wasn't being held down by society or rich people or my circumstances; I was held captive by limiting beliefs and poor choices.
Government handouts have nothing to do with the topic. Two wrongs don't make a right.
A large number of (mostly) low-income wage earners are demanding free rent even though they are likely to make more money, not less, due to the COVID pandemic. If that offends you, feel free to open your rentals up to some low-income people, give them a few months of free rent, and how that ends for you.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - 6yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Nathan Gesner I do have my concerns that a certain segment of the rental pool.. is just going to pocket the money they get
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
This is a common response from someone that is controlled by emotion. You made that statement without first attempting to learn about me. I did grow up poor. My dad died when I was six, raised by a single mom on government cheese, powdered milk, and most of my clothes were hand-me-downs and garage sale finds. I started working in the fields at age 12, right next to illegal immigrants, so I could afford school supplies. All my family grew up in trailers. I thought college and skiing was only for rich kids and never imagined I could be better. I lived paycheck-to-paycheck. I racked up credit card debt. In other words, I knew poverty, embraced it as my reality, and continued making decisions that ensured I stayed there. One day I looked around and realized I wasn't being held down by society or rich people or my circumstances; I was held captive by limiting beliefs and poor choices.
Government handouts have nothing to do with the topic. Two wrongs don't make a right.
A large number of (mostly) low-income wage earners are demanding free rent even though they are likely to make more money, not less, due to the COVID pandemic. If that offends you, feel free to open your rentals up to some low-income people, give them a few months of free rent, and how that ends for you.
Dammit Nathan you're stealing my story 😂 That was me. Grew up on government cheese and government powdered milk. The cheese was awesome, the milk was disgusting. No electricity for months on end. Almost never had a phone. No hot water. Homeless for 4 months with my mother & siblings, they wouldn't let me go to high school because we had no permanent address. Started working permanently when I was 9 (people would be arrested for this today), my SS statement goes back to when I was 12. Pretty much everyone I knew was either a working poor slob like us or seemed rich, though in hindsight they were probably just middle class. I made all those mistakes you mentioned and more.
My day of liberation was the day I realized that my stress about bosses, jobs, the recession, etc. was not because those things were real or they sucked - they were, and they did - but because I never fully accepted my responsibility for my predicaments. I reverse-engineered my life. My boss stressed me out because I needed that job because it paid more than others and I had bills to pay. What if I didn't have bills to pay? What if I had some other streams of income besides my job?
I know things are hard for a lot of people. I also know that some people will work the system. I don't begrudge either, nor do I condone either. But for my awakening, I would be in their same boat, and I'm sorry that a lot of people will never realize their own measure of power.
If I could give one book to every person in America it would be "Your Money or Your Life." I know the book by heart and I still listen to it once a year or so to remind myself where I could easily be if I decided to fall into that trap.
Skyline Properties - Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes6y
I have no complaints about government cheese. It was a five-pound block of happiness, in my book!
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - 6yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
I have no complaints about government cheese. It was a five-pound block of happiness, in my book!
I cant say we had it quite like that.. but I do remember our car being a 56 VW bug with no back seats.. and my mom making my clothes etc. never went out to eat EVER.. And when my dad was between jobs we delivered phone books door to door !! that could not have paid much.
My wife who grew up in rural WA had the No heat no hot water take a bath next to oil stove her dad was a gypo logger fisherman etc etc.
Then my dad found real estate and our fortunes changed in the course of a few years.. I learned a lot he did well never got over the top but it gave me a good foundation and motivation to get a license at 18 .. Real Estate can change your life for certain bar of entry is low income unlimited..
And my wife the same thing got her license and excelled .. all while raising 3 daughters by herself.. pretty tough gig full time realtor and 3 girls :)
You can't Keep a Good Man Down!
The stories some of you have posted about how you started out with nothing but the drive to succeed, to where you are now, are something to really be proud of!!!
America offers people the ability to pull themselves up by the bootstraps if they want to.
What you guys have been through reminds me of JP Dejoria's story of the Eagle and Oyster at TEDxLA a few years back (it's on YouTube).
You guys have overcome a lot to get where you are -- Good Job -- and keep on going!!!
Good Luck!
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
I have no complaints about government cheese. It was a five-pound block of happiness, in my book!
I cant say we had it quite like that.. but I do remember our car being a 56 VW bug with no back seats.. and my mom making my clothes etc. never went out to eat EVER.. And when my dad was between jobs we delivered phone books door to door !! that could not have paid much.
My wife who grew up in rural WA had the No heat no hot water take a bath next to oil stove her dad was a gypo logger fisherman etc etc.
Then my dad found real estate and our fortunes changed in the course of a few years.. I learned a lot he did well never got over the top but it gave me a good foundation and motivation to get a license at 18 .. Real Estate can change your life for certain bar of entry is low income unlimited..
And my wife the same thing got her license and excelled .. all while raising 3 daughters by herself.. pretty tough gig full time realtor and 3 girls :)
😂 One year in northern Pennsylvania our "car" was a dune buggy with no top. It's hard to describe how cold you can be in January in northern PA in a convertible with a half windshield! Another funny thing is that I didn't realize until I was an adult in the military that some people actually had air conditioning in their homes - I thought that only movie theatres and the mall had AC! I thought going to Burger King was "eating out".
Skyline Properties - Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
I have no complaints about government cheese. It was a five-pound block of happiness, in my book!
Yeah, and it came in that brown plain package. When I was a kid I thought it was the generic version of Velveeta 🤣
Skyline Properties - Rental Property Investor · Boise/Portland · Member since 2017 · 709 posts · 742 votes6y
Thanks for your story Nathan! I'll share my wife's;
My wife grew up in a house made from rough-sawn lumber without running water or electricity. Interior lighting was provided by propane gas lights that were hung from exposed ceiling joists. Solar panels on the roof charged several car batteries in the sun room situated off the front of the kitchen. The refrigerator ran on propane, using ammonia as a coolant, while a back-up generator powered the house whenever the battery output was unable to meet the electrical demand.
Just prior to my first visit to her home, my wife confided they had used an outhouse for years, only recently converting it to house the generator. This was rural Montana where the economy is historically depressed, and the locals referred to the area as "poverty with a view." Her parents struggled to find multiple income streams that barely kept food on the table.
My wife would never tolerate the idea to entrench herself into the feeling that she doesn’t need to pay rent or any other obligation. She would look the landlord in the eye and tell them plainly; “This is what I can honestly pay right now, but I assure you I will pay you in full as soon as I can.”
Fast forward to now; my wife is now a landlord owning a 1M plus dollars of rental properties, and she remembers her roots. She would not tolerate someone positioning themselves with an excuse of not being responsible to fulfill their obligations. She’ll work with them if they ask.
- Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes6y
@Nathan G. I do think a rent strike is a ridiculous idea. But your opinion on the working class is no better. By far corporations have been sucking money from the public ever since the 80s at an ever increasing rate while social safety nets have been decimated. I dont agree with a rent strike but I do understand the anger and frustration of people especially young people who see vanishing opportunites and have crushing debt because we as a society have decided we dont owe the next generation a basic education, healthcare, transport or safe streets.
- Member since 2020 · 137 posts · 158 votes6y
@JD Martin your “Burger King was eating out” comment brings back memories! We went through a rough time when McDonald’s had throwback pricing on hamburgers. 25 cents each and the 4 of us shared a coke. Dad brought a pack of cheese because cheese burgers were $1 or 2. We thought ramen noodles with chicken added in was a treat. These were character building years and experiences I wouldn’t trade for anything.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@Nathan G. I do think a rent strike is a ridiculous idea. But your opinion on the working class is no better. By far corporations have been sucking money from the public ever since the 80s at an ever increasing rate while social safety nets have been decimated. I dont agree with a rent strike but I do understand the anger and frustration of people especially young people who see vanishing opportunites and have crushing debt because we as a society have decided we dont owe the next generation a basic education, healthcare, transport or safe streets.
The conversation is about rent strike, not bailouts for corporations. If you want to have that conversation, start a new thread and I'll jump in. You'll find I'm probably one of the most conservative people in this forum.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - Lititz, PA · Member since 2013 · 595 posts · 272 votes6y-A friend works for NYS Department of Labor and has told me that with the enhanced unemployment benefits there will be unemployed people making more than her.
-I know of a plant manager who is losing workers because they've done the math and will be making more on unemployment with the increased stimulus payments.
-Unemployment benefits are intended for expenses like food, transportation (many will be saving on that) and rent. This time is no different.
-I suppose if rent isn't paid, plumbing and heating won't get fixed, heat bills won't get paid, property taxes won't get paid, roads won't get plowed, schools won't get funded....you get the picture. - Rental Property Investor · Boise/Portland · Member since 2017 · 709 posts · 742 votes6y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
@Nathan G. I do think a rent strike is a ridiculous idea. But your opinion on the working class is no better. By far corporations have been sucking money from the public ever since the 80s at an ever increasing rate while social safety nets have been decimated. I dont agree with a rent strike but I do understand the anger and frustration of people especially young people who see vanishing opportunites and have crushing debt because we as a society have decided we dont owe the next generation a basic education, healthcare, transport or safe streets.
The premise of my post was to point out that regardless of whatever reason is cited, it will be fed and driven by emotions. Why? Because the moratoriums on evictions seemed to be the catalyst to empower Rent Strikes. For example, “No Work, No Rent” is reportedly being graffitied around the city in Portland, Oregon. The movement will begin to feed itself. Perhaps not from Entitlement, but because the tenants’ perspective is locked down and controlled by emotions. It’s a knee jerk reaction that sidelines LLs. However, in fairness, some of the “strikers” are also pushing the idea that Lenders suspend mortgage payments in consideration of LLs.
What I find interesting about this thread is the few who are denigrating the poor were poor themselves.
I was poor and i also was on my own at 16.... but i have empathy for those that dont know that a better life is possible.
Are there system cheats? Sure, but they are the minority. and it does not seem wise to judge all based on the actions of a few.But back to the original topic - rent strikes are brought on by tenants who feel cheated. And by tenants who have been kicked out , had their rent doubled, or who saw their homes turned into yuppy havens. As landlords we should do better to ensure people are not displaced, that people are not injured by our actions.
Now is not the time to insult tenants further
- Rental Property Investor · Boise/Portland · Member since 2017 · 709 posts · 742 votes6y
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
What I find interesting about this thread is the few who are denigrating the poor were poor themselves.
I was poor and i also was on my own at 16.... but i have empathy for those that dont know that a better life is possible.
Are there system cheats? Sure, but they are the minority. and it does not seem wise to judge all based on the actions of a few.But back to the original topic - rent strikes are brought on by tenants who feel cheated. And by tenants who have been kicked out , had their rent doubled, or who saw their homes turned into yuppy havens. As landlords we should do better to ensure people are not displaced, that people are not injured by our actions.
Now is not the time to insult tenants further
You’re missing the point of my original post. It’s not about people feeling cheated or the other things you listed. My premise is that something else is feeding the Rent Strikes aside from those bullet point arguments. I’ll give you an example. I used to work the packing lines at a Nabisco factory. I was only on the job a few weeks when word of a possible strike made its way down the line and permeated the entire factory. The reasons given to call the strike was utterly baseless, but I was intrigued by how quickly the fervor and intensity grew as people signed up calling for a strike. It was the psychology or emotions that fed the Strike fever as people were swept up in the sentiment rather than looking at it realistically. Eventually it died down and the strike was called off.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
What I find interesting about this thread is the few who are denigrating the poor were poor themselves.
I was poor and i also was on my own at 16.... but i have empathy for those that dont know that a better life is possible.
Are there system cheats? Sure, but they are the minority. and it does not seem wise to judge all based on the actions of a few.But back to the original topic - rent strikes are brought on by tenants who feel cheated. And by tenants who have been kicked out , had their rent doubled, or who saw their homes turned into yuppy havens. As landlords we should do better to ensure people are not displaced, that people are not injured by our actions.
Now is not the time to insult tenants further
I had a good friend become addicted to prescription meds. He forged prescriptions and stole about $40,000 from a government fund to pay for his addiction. He was guilty of many other crimes they didn't catch him for. He went to prison for ten years, leaving a wife and two young kids.
I didn't cheer as he was led to prison. I honestly felt terrible about his pain and suffering. At the same time, I know he needs to suffer the consequences of his actions and society needs justice.
I know what it's like to be poor and I truly do feel sorry for them. I also know that most of them will never escape poverty through a handout. They have to make the hard decisions and sacrifice. Feeling sorry for them, giving them handouts, or telling them they are victims with no control over their situation only ensures continued poverty.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews Wait..... hand out??? They are not getting a hand out. The govt shut down the economy - they are out of jobs due to no fault of their own.
It really pisses me off that you are blaming the poor for having no money during an emergency.
@Matthew McNeil the rent strike is like any other meme out there. I dont find that its happening surprising at all
@Matthew McNeil Absent a change in the laws or refusal by judges or magistrates to enforce existing contract law, landlords will be able to evict for non-payment once this passes. In my state, landlords usually have an advantage because they write the lease; right now, tenants have and an advantage since landlords are temporarily unable to file for eviction.
However, many tenants will pay because they haven't lost their jobs and they pay their bills and because they feel that it's the right thing to do. Some tenants will pay because they'd rather not have to move when this is over, others will pay because they don't want a judgement to sully their credit score. Some percentage of tenants will not pay, even though they could because they feel they are 'entitled' to free rent during this crisis. Others will not pay because they can't.
I don't think a 'rent strike' is likely to affect the change that is sought. When forcible detainer cases are heard in markets like mine where the 'care act' provided sufficient funds to cover rent for a number of months, I will be very surprised if these cases receive a lot of sympathy from court. I wouldn't want to end up in front of a magistrate demanding late fees from a tenant who paid but late because of stay-at-home orders or worse still illness, but tenants that didn't lose there jobs and just refuse to pay probably won't fare well either.
@Nathan Gesner @Jay Hinrichs @JD Martin Thank you for sharing your inspiring stories.
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