Will COVID-19 Cause a Recession?

Will COVID-19 Cause a Recession?

Adiel GorelPro Member
Real Estate Broker · San Rafael, CA · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 30 votes

As we all observe and fear the Coronavirus, we see many cities under “shelter-at-home” restrictions, and many “non-essential” businesses closing. Then on the other hand, the Fed lowered rates almost to zero, and mortgage rates, after a short spike, are starting to settle down near the lowest point ever. Some people fear a recession is likely to follow, and if we remember the recession of 2008, I think it’s quite possible. That depends, of course, on the length of the lock-down.

If a recession does occur, let’s point out some of the differences between the recession of 2008 and the next recession, if it hits.

Before the 2008 recession happened, there was a major boom in many states. Home prices in states like Arizona, Nevada and Florida went through the roof. The media was shouting “It’s a bubble! It has to burst!” Prices of homes in Phoenix, for example, nearly doubled from the beginning of 2004 till the middle of 2006. Not all states participated in the party, for example, Texas and Oklahoma have not gone up very much during that time.

When the 2008 recession hit, the markets that went down precipitously were, of course, the exact markets that had participated in the 2004-2006 boom. Places in Arizona, Nevada, Florida, and other states. Prices tanked and crashed quite a bit. However not across the board, states like Texas and Oklahoma did not go down very much during the recession of 2008.

By contrast, at the present time, especially in affordable markets like Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Baton Rouge, Central Florida, parts of Atlanta, Raleigh and others, there are currently no price bubbles. No major boom has happened, Thus the likelihood of a major price crash in such markets is much slimmer than the markets which crashed in the 2008 recession. There are very high priced markets now, the expensive markets in San Francisco, for example (which has already started going down in price last year). In such markets, there may be a stronger effect on prices. Also, when you invest in a brand new home in a good area in Oklahoma and pay $170,000. You are buying the home not much over the basic construction and land cost. Again, the probability of an “intrinsic value” home like this going down much is small. By contrast, a $2M home in San Francisco, which cost $900K to build, has a lot of “air” in the price, with a higher likelihood of prices going down in San Francisco.

The recession of 2008 was created by housing. Lenders released all limits, and loans were made to virtually anyone that was human, almost regardless of credit or ability to pay. Some loans were up to 125% of the value of the house. This bad debt, called “sub-prime”, was then packaged among other debt, and amazingly, the credit agency gave these packages high ratings, as if it was a quality debt product. Then these faulty packages sold on Wall Street, and financial wizards found way to leverage them enormously. Once defaults on the bad loans started to hit, the entire structure unraveled.

By contrast, at the present we are still under the Dodd-Frank Act, which was drafted after the 2008 recession. Borrowing is now much harder and lengthier than it was before the 2008 recession. Even borrowers with great credit are finding the current loan processes frustrating. The amount of sub-prime loans is minuscule relative the period preceding the 2008 recession, and steps were taken to make the abuses with rating agencies be much harder to repeat. Thus the next recession is likely not to be caused by bad loans. It is clear that if another recession comes, its effects on rental home investing will be quite different than the recession of 2008.

I believe that the best way to invest in real estate is to buy brand new homes, in affordable large metropolitan areas, where the rent numbers match well with prices. Then finance the homes with a fixed-rate loan. To the best of my knowledge long term fixed rate loans like we get here in the US don’t exist elsewhere. The monthly payment and the mortgage balance never change with the cost of living, while everything else does. That means inflation constantly erodes the true buying buyer of your debt, making your debt ever smaller in real dollars.

For these kinds of homes, purchased anywhere from $150K to $250K, I believe the effects of the next recession will be minimal. Rates are very low, however, so fixed rate loans will retain these great rates forever.

The act of buying good rental homes in large metro areas and holding them as rental for the long term, where the loan erodes, is a future-changer. It does not change your future instantly or even within a short time, but over the long term, this strategy is a powerful future changer. I have seen people retire well, send kids to college, and look much stronger financially thanks to these simple yet powerful investments.

Since these investments show their power over the long term, and since the interest rates are so favorable now, and since a possible impending recession is unlikely to have effects on prices like the 2008 recession, I believe this would be a good time to invest.

As an extra “bonus”, the virus fear creates more flexibility with sellers, including builders, and the ability to negotiate better prices.

I would be happy to discuss it with anyone who may wish to inquire further.

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Columbia, MD · Member since 2018 · 27 posts · 169 votes
6y

We have strong economy ??? Really ? Do we? 10 days after the shut down of the country most Americans did NOT have the money to pay their rent on April 1st .... just freaking 10 days !!! They did not last one month !! San Antonio, food bank, feeds 120k people a week, millions on unemployment, in a few weeks you will hear about families with crazy hospital bills to pay ($20K-30K each) plus some will have funerals to pay for ( 5-10k) and that's while many were without any income coming in. Commercial real-estate owners about to lose their pants during corona epidemic, all those with over leveraged investments and kings of BRRRR will feel the sh** hitting the fan in like 3,2,1.....while rent goes un paid. This was not strong economy to begin with! Homes, cars and student loans leveraged to the brim while most pay the minimum is not a sign of strong economy.This was crap economy on borrowed time and borrowed cheap money. Sorry y'all

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  • Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 96 posts · 102 votes
    6y

    Excellent input!  Jay Scott (I believe) wrote a very good article that was right in line with all your points!  Big thing I really liked is how out of the past 5 recessions only one (2008) led to decrease in home prices.  Thanks for sharing the detailed input on this very relevant topic!

  • Rental Property Investor · North Jersey Shore · Member since 2020 · 102 posts · 49 votes
    6y

    From the initial post my thought was ....hmmmm...I'llbe polite.

    in my part of the world a building lot for a 2400k s.f. house is 125000 if their lucky up to 250000. They do not rent often

    The market for the redone expanded old homes is cheap ....at 500K. 

    In the last 4 recessions these areas lost less than 20% of value and once the storm abated they had new and higher average prices from which to recover from.

    Our local industrial park has tons of vacancy in the past 18 months with the past 6 months its has gotten worse. As said above the crystal ball says that office space is going to get crushed, with much more working from home is coming.

    Our local Mall is one of those that was mentioned above. NIMBYISM stalled project for almost 4 years and boasted 700 apts starting at 3K, an already scaled back Mall/shopping redo and 16K, 2 building Medical space (which also could get hit hard by tele med). 

    Recovery will be slow9

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2014 · 148 posts · 177 votes
    6y

    @Adiel Gorel I'm a little confused by the title of this thread. We are already in a recession. Q1 ended in a contraction and no one is questioning that Q2 will be an even deeper contraction. The questions now are how long and how deep the recession will be, will the recovery be quick or prolonged, and what lasting changes (if any) the recession will bring.

    For everyone talking about how great the economy was prior to the virus, we should remember that we were running a Trillion dollar budget deficit, the Fed was already pumping liquidity into the system because repo rates were spiking, and over 1/3 of economists and CFOs were predicting a recession in 2020 (the numbers go up when you ask about 2021). So there were cracks in the system prior to these shutdowns that were being smoothed over.

  • Professional · Parsippany, NJ · Member since 2013 · 384 posts · 262 votes
    6y

    Mortgage lenders are already Tightening up guidelines which will have an effect on the market

  • Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    There are always a bunch of doomsday authors even a broken clock is right once a day lol. 

    Fauci is already making plans to re-open the country May 1st. I expect this to be relatively short term issue but regardless I still have clients buying in Chicago. Low inventory and markets still hot. I don't see it falling. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2014 · 148 posts · 177 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Nick Gann:
    Originally posted by @Sam Josh:

    @Adiel Gorel

    A friend wants to lose weight, 35 lbs. If he tries he can let that weight out in 12 - 18 months in a healthy fashion, not 6 days or 6 weeks. Odds are he may only lose 10 lbs or 15 lbs and give up. I’d give him better odds if he had only 15 lbs to lose. I think the wounds of Covid to the economy are the same. They are sharp and deep. Nothing is going to recover overnight. The economy will take 6 - 12 months of recovery time and recession is already happening.

     Something that seems to be overlooked in all the discussions regarding the current situation is, we were heading here prior to covid. And everyone I see commenting seems to think things will bounceback be cause "historically they always have" but the country is young. Most folks are not accounting for the fact that we may very well lose reserve currency status... all the USD in the world won't fix that problem. There are variables here that I just don't think most folks are smart enough to account for. We can look to the Schiff's and Kiyosakis with their statements about what is old being sustainable, gold/silver/land, it seems foolish to assume we go back to anything like we've had, the world is changing. It would be a good idea to keep an open mind and learn as much as you can while stocking up on things that you can actually spend. Maybe we pull through and the USD is fine, that seems like a farce of thought to me though.

     Why do you think we're losing reserve currency status? If anything the FED is cementing its position as the Worlds Central Bank even more by reviving swap lines and finding ways to provide even more dollar liquidity to other central banks. The EU and Japan aren't going to take that on when they're already in a panic over deflationary pressure. The idea of China taking up the role is comical and nonsensical in the middle of this. What major country or institution  wants the Peoples Bank of China running the show right now? For all the dollars flaws there just isn't an alternative.

  • Tacoma, WA · Member since 2014 · 77 posts · 92 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Henry Lazerow:

    There are always a bunch of doomsday authors even a broken clock is right once a day lol. 

    Fauci is already making plans to re-open the country May 1st. 

    His direct quotes are:  “a rolling reentry” and a solution “that is not one size fits all”.  The entire country isn't just going to re-open.  Even if some parts of the country open up May 1st it's going to be extremely limited. 

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Steven Hong:

    @John Underwood

    6/10 of my tenant paid up for April.

    The 4 that wasn’t able to pay have good jobs but are out of work right now.

    Most renters don’t have immediate emergency funds. I highly doubt we are going back to business as normal when this is over. Most people will be playing catch up. It’s sad but it’s true.

    A recession is imminent.

    I don't think your 4 non paying tenants is what Fox news will use as a Guage of a coming recession.

    19 of my 20 tenants paid so I have more data points.

  • Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 43 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Henry Lazerow:

    There are always a bunch of doomsday authors even a broken clock is right once a day lol. 

    Fauci is already making plans to re-open the country May 1st. I expect this to be relatively short term issue but regardless I still have clients buying in Chicago. Low inventory and markets still hot. I don't see it falling. 

    It was also Fauci who, on February 28, made the claim that COVID will most likely be akin to the flu rather than previous coronavirus pandemics. 

    Of course, he may end up being right if, at the end of this, millions end up having been infected without a corresponding number of those dying from it, thus producing an overall low case fatality rate similar to the flu, but it's too early to tell.

  • Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    It has a significantly lower mortality rate then originally thought. Over 50k die of flu this is pretty much a bad flu season. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Tallahassee, FL · Member since 2014 · 462 posts · 237 votes
    6y

    @Adiel Gorel there’s a lot doom in this forum. I actually make more money in a down market. Adapt or find something else to do. This type of thing just gets rid of the people that are not immersed in the industry. All the crap deals go away, all the terrible wholesalers go away. Realtors start doing their job properly. I’d have the economy back to where it was a month ago in a hot minute. The reality is that’s not going to happen, how it will effect us long term is up to us. We can be victims or we can come out of this better than before. It’s up to each one of us.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Tallahassee, FL · Member since 2014 · 462 posts · 237 votes
    6y

    @Lucas Carl absolutely right!

  • Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Naw. It'll be fine. Won't ever happen.

  • Member since 2020 · 26 posts · 43 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Henry Lazerow:

    It has a significantly lower mortality rate then originally thought. Over 50k die of flu this is pretty much a bad flu season. 

    Statistically, I agree with you as most likely many hundreds of thousands more have been infected and are asympomatic or had mild symptoms and recovered. And while # of dead might also be under-reported, it is most likely that this will have a lower case fatality rate once the dust settles.

    The problem is, that's not what the economy/government/media are making it out to be and as such, we find ourselves in a recession which will have implications, either for good or bad, for those of us in the real estate industry. 

    My previous reply served to indicate that some of the least accurate individuals throughout this situation have been the experts which isn't helping anyone.

  • Clint ShelleyPro Member
    Surveyor · Dothan, AL · Member since 2014 · 425 posts · 391 votes
    6y

    The country is going to open up soon. People aren't going to stay inside much longer no matter what a government official mandates. This is another economic inflection point. Is it earth shaking? Will it change the landscape of investing and life in general? Who knows. I've been camping every weekend for the last 3 weeks. Geese are feeding. Gators are mating, and the crappie and bream are biting. My daughter learned to ride her bike. No TV. We give thanks to the Master for the life he gave us. All of this will pass. My portfolio will go expand, contract, or disappear. Either way, I'll be fine. It's just money and buildings. We'll all be fine. One thing this nation is good at is rebounding. It's gonna take more than a pissant virus and bunch of misinformation to keep us down. 'Merica!

    Clint

  • Rental Property Investor · Beavercreek OH · Member since 2018 · 422 posts · 970 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Steven Hong:

    @John Underwood

    6/10 of my tenant paid up for April.

    The 4 that wasn’t able to pay have good jobs but are out of work right now.

    Most renters don’t have immediate emergency funds. I highly doubt we are going back to business as normal when this is over. Most people will be playing catch up. It’s sad but it’s true.

    A recession is imminent.

     Steven,

    All due respect, but if 60% of your tenants didn't pay April's rent you have the wrong tenants.

    When the rebound comes, I suggest screening your tenants way more diligently.  My goodness April's rent was only a few weeks into this mess.

    Respectfully,

    Gary

  • Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Been waiting 12 years for this, time to be greedy when others are fearful.

  • Sunnyvale , CA · Member since 2017 · 373 posts · 362 votes
    6y

    @Michael P.

    You are both smart and lucky because most of the “waiters” I know are now scrambling because their sources of income and funds are drying up quick and fast.

  • Rental Property Investor · Ann Arbor, MI · Member since 2019 · 71 posts · 67 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joshua Myers:
    Originally posted by @Nick Gann:
    Originally posted by @Sam Josh:

    @Adiel Gorel

    A friend wants to lose weight, 35 lbs. If he tries he can let that weight out in 12 - 18 months in a healthy fashion, not 6 days or 6 weeks. Odds are he may only lose 10 lbs or 15 lbs and give up. I’d give him better odds if he had only 15 lbs to lose. I think the wounds of Covid to the economy are the same. They are sharp and deep. Nothing is going to recover overnight. The economy will take 6 - 12 months of recovery time and recession is already happening.

     Something that seems to be overlooked in all the discussions regarding the current situation is, we were heading here prior to covid. And everyone I see commenting seems to think things will bounceback be cause "historically they always have" but the country is young. Most folks are not accounting for the fact that we may very well lose reserve currency status... all the USD in the world won't fix that problem. There are variables here that I just don't think most folks are smart enough to account for. We can look to the Schiff's and Kiyosakis with their statements about what is old being sustainable, gold/silver/land, it seems foolish to assume we go back to anything like we've had, the world is changing. It would be a good idea to keep an open mind and learn as much as you can while stocking up on things that you can actually spend. Maybe we pull through and the USD is fine, that seems like a farce of thought to me though.

     Why do you think we're losing reserve currency status? If anything the FED is cementing its position as the Worlds Central Bank even more by reviving swap lines and finding ways to provide even more dollar liquidity to other central banks. The EU and Japan aren't going to take that on when they're already in a panic over deflationary pressure. The idea of China taking up the role is comical and nonsensical in the middle of this. What major country or institution  wants the Peoples Bank of China running the show right now? For all the dollars flaws there just isn't an alternative.

     @Joshua Myers, agreed 100%. There really is not an alternative as all other currencies are also fiat. We are all inflating together. If things got bad enough, there is a possibility that SDRs with the IMF could have a more prominent role. However, SDRs are also fiat by nature as well. It never hurts to hold some tangible assets like gold/silver to hedge your purchasing power, but they will not be the major forms of exchange. Also agree about China, their potential role as the pre-eminent global reserve currency was already dubious before this crisis. It is even far less likely now with the way they have behaved since President Xi changed the dynamics of their government going back to 2012. They won't back their currency with gold or any other commodity, and even if they did, they would de-link it as soon as the next crisis hit, as ALWAYS happens. 

  • Member since 2019 · 9 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    I’m here from Maryland(Baltimore). I was told from my real estate mentor to wait to buy in a year when more foreclosures hit the market. He’s assuming a fair amount of people won’t make it out strong. At my job where everyone makes above the average salary there’s panic now that we are making a third of our normal salary. Abiet many of those panicking drive bmws and pay 1700 in rent it’s still a bad sight to see.The 40 people that was laid off is getting more money in unemployment. So I’m thinking I should just wait and see. I have 30k saved up now guess this give me more time to save up another 15k

  • Deano VulcanoPro Member
    Investor · Fort Mill, SC · Member since 2013 · 128 posts · 70 votes
    6y

    The pandemic is not the issue, the collapse of the world's economy is. You don't shut down the world's economy all at the same time because of a virus without dire consequences. This virus will end and another one will emerge, but there is no vaccine for what is coming to the world's economy. Death is with us every day, if you don't believe me go to this website and prepare to have your mind blown...worldometers.info 

    Deaths TODAY...43,124...at least 3 deaths every second,  by the time you go to the website this number will be much higher.

    Doomsdayer?....nope...just a realist.

  • Lender · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2016 · 372 posts · 172 votes
    6y
    Spot on, Deano.


    Originally posted by @Deano Vulcano:

    The pandemic is not the issue, the collapse of the world's economy is. You don't shut down the world's economy all at the same time because of a virus without dire consequences. This virus will end and another one will emerge, but there is no vaccine for what is coming to the world's economy. Death is with us every day, if you don't believe me go to this website and prepare to have your mind blown...worldometers.info 

    Deaths TODAY...43,124...at least 3 deaths every second,  by the time you go to the website this number will be much higher.

    Doomsdayer?....nope...just a realist.

  • Member since 2019 · 33 posts · 41 votes
    6y

    There is a recession happening right now, that much is undeniable to even the most bullish investor.  The real question is; how long will this recession last, and will it become a depression?  Given the unprecedented scale of mass unemployment, close to 17 million initial cases of unemployment claims in 3 weeks I have no idea how people think this will simply blow over come Q3 or Q4 2020.

    Here is a hypothetical removed from the coronavirus.  The world economy comes to a screeching halt for months, and the US economy will likely continue to be completely or partially closed in April and May with re-opening not happening until summer.  Close to 17 million initial unemployment claims in 3 weeks, historic by any nature and more on the way.  A 2.2 trillion stimulus package passed, far short of the 10 trillion called for by some economists to prevent a recession and has been plagued by delays to implement it.  Businesses failing due to lack of income, and will likely not return to normal operation even after the economy re-opens due to falling consumer confidence if they remain solvent at all.  People now making more on unemployment than they did at their jobs in many places.  The average weekly income was $936/week ($48,672/year) in 2019 so I figure many people will not return to work on purpose for at least until unemployment benefits drop in 3 months, possibly longer if those benefits get extended.  Remaining on unemployment keeps the economy from roaring back as most would remain on unemployment.  Max unemployment in Texas is now $1105 pre tax per week ($505 max benefit and $600 stimulus), that's more than many people made before this crisis so likely they will seriously consider remaining on that benefit for as long as possible instead of working their job which pays less.  

    With all of that above (and more) going on without including anything coronavirus-realted things sound bleak financially and they get even worse with the virus included.  So I'm amazed that anyone thinks this will somehow be a 'V' shaped recovery given those factors and more.  That's not even doom-saying, those are verifiable facts (and a few opinions based upon those same facts).  Which is all the more confusing with that stock market rally lately.  EPS dropped, earnings plummeted, and somehow the market increases in a record-shattering week?  No, something is brewing in the economy and it's not good.  That shouldn't happen given those metrics so a 2nd market crash is on the horizon.  Real estate lags the economy by 3-6 months so I wouldn't be surprised that the real estate starts to slide by summer.

    My concern is where will we go from here?  Re-opening the economy in May will likely cause reinfections and thus an even longer 2nd shutdown.  The other option would be to continue this shutdown for months more to contain it, and that also comes with some serious economic issues.  Even if Trump re-opens the economy consumer confidence is dropping, and dropping fast.  No amount of wishful thinking will change that and only a vaccine will improve consumer confidence enough to start the full recovery.  Our economy is a consumer based economy by-and-large so it is wishful thinking to consider the economy will recover in a 'V' shape without improving consumer confidence first and foremost.  That, I believe will not improve without a vaccine or empirically-proven treatment to the virus.  Not baseless claims as some in the media claim, a proven treatment or vaccine only.  IMO that is what I think is going on, but as for how long things will last?  No clue.

    TL;DR: The economy will not be a 'V' shaped recovery as some have stated it will be, and we are certainly in a recession now.

  • Real Estate Agent · Murfreesboro, TN · Member since 2019 · 194 posts · 181 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Nick Gann:
    Originally posted by @Marco Bario:

    Will it cause a Depression? That's the question I've been asking. 

    Taking into account a global economic shock, a coinciding drop in energy prices, many small businesses that won't recover, unemployment, the possibility for a run on US Dollars which could cause the USD to spike, plus municipalities and retirement funds who were already on financial thin ice – there's a great deal of risk and the combined headwinds are enormous. 

     Do you mean spike down? There's no lack of USD in the markets...

    Your Comment: "Do you mean spike down? There's no lack of USD in the markets..."

    There actually is a USD shortgage. They "Issued" $2,200,000,000,000 (two $trillion $200 hundred billion) in debt (dollars) without actually printing anything but an IOU. It takes over a year to print $1,000,000,000,000 (one $trillion) let alone $2,000,000,000,000

    Here is 2 trillion dollars on pallets stacked 2 pallets high in $100 dollar bills. That little red dot on the left corner is you.

    https://methodshop.com/2009/04...

    I am not in disagreement about physical dollars. But noone trades in physical dollars. The world moves in digital dollars, credit, and access. And that's everywhere... it'll only increase and drive down desirability of the dollar. Sure everyone is inflating... but not everyone is producing, why wouldn't I just keep what I produce instead of selling it for something with low value? That's what were talking about here.

  • Real Estate Agent · Murfreesboro, TN · Member since 2019 · 194 posts · 181 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Samuel Pentowski:

    There is a recession happening right now, that much is undeniable to even the most bullish investor.  The real question is; how long will this recession last, and will it become a depression?  Given the unprecedented scale of mass unemployment, close to 17 million initial cases of unemployment claims in 3 weeks I have no idea how people think this will simply blow over come Q3 or Q4 2020.

    Here is a hypothetical removed from the coronavirus.  The world economy comes to a screeching halt for months, and the US economy will likely continue to be completely or partially closed in April and May with re-opening not happening until summer.  Close to 17 million initial unemployment claims in 3 weeks, historic by any nature and more on the way.  A 2.2 trillion stimulus package passed, far short of the 10 trillion called for by some economists to prevent a recession and has been plagued by delays to implement it.  Businesses failing due to lack of income, and will likely not return to normal operation even after the economy re-opens due to falling consumer confidence if they remain solvent at all.  People now making more on unemployment than they did at their jobs in many places.  The average weekly income was $936/week ($48,672/year) in 2019 so I figure many people will not return to work on purpose for at least until unemployment benefits drop in 3 months, possibly longer if those benefits get extended.  Remaining on unemployment keeps the economy from roaring back as most would remain on unemployment.  Max unemployment in Texas is now $1105 pre tax per week ($505 max benefit and $600 stimulus), that's more than many people made before this crisis so likely they will seriously consider remaining on that benefit for as long as possible instead of working their job which pays less.  

    With all of that above (and more) going on without including anything coronavirus-realted things sound bleak financially and they get even worse with the virus included.  So I'm amazed that anyone thinks this will somehow be a 'V' shaped recovery given those factors and more.  That's not even doom-saying, those are verifiable facts (and a few opinions based upon those same facts).  Which is all the more confusing with that stock market rally lately.  EPS dropped, earnings plummeted, and somehow the market increases in a record-shattering week?  No, something is brewing in the economy and it's not good.  That shouldn't happen given those metrics so a 2nd market crash is on the horizon.  Real estate lags the economy by 3-6 months so I wouldn't be surprised that the real estate starts to slide by summer.

    My concern is where will we go from here?  Re-opening the economy in May will likely cause reinfections and thus an even longer 2nd shutdown.  The other option would be to continue this shutdown for months more to contain it, and that also comes with some serious economic issues.  Even if Trump re-opens the economy consumer confidence is dropping, and dropping fast.  No amount of wishful thinking will change that and only a vaccine will improve consumer confidence enough to start the full recovery.  Our economy is a consumer based economy by-and-large so it is wishful thinking to consider the economy will recover in a 'V' shape without improving consumer confidence first and foremost.  That, I believe will not improve without a vaccine or empirically-proven treatment to the virus.  Not baseless claims as some in the media claim, a proven treatment or vaccine only.  IMO that is what I think is going on, but as for how long things will last?  No clue.

    TL;DR: The economy will not be a 'V' shaped recovery as some have stated it will be, and we are certainly in a recession now.

     I dig your style man. Calling this any shape is an exercise in distraction. But yeah. there is money to be made here. Just wonder what the money will be worth.

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