Property Management: Self or Outsourced

Property Management: Self or Outsourced

Engineer · Ponchatoula, LA · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 3 votes

Hello BP Community,

I have been self managing 2 rental buildings (fourplex and duplex) for the past few years. For the most part, the units are pretty easy to rent, and have minor issues here and there (mostly on Sundays of course!). Cash flow has really not been the problem, I've been able to make my payments no problem and put money back into the buildings. I'm getting busy with work and personal stuff though, and don't want to sell these properties but also not sure if I feel like holding onto them if I give away 10% of the rents.

Just a quick rundown:

4 Plex: Average rent is $625 = $2500/month in rents

2 Plex: Average rent is $475 = $950/month in rents


So between my two properties, I can expect rents of $3450. For the most part, rent is not hard to collect. I utilize Cozy for online payments, have a business bank account they can drop money into.

The simple question remains: Is property management worth it?

I find myself questioning giving away $345/month just to avoid a few phone calls and rent collection hassles.  But I also intend to own many more properties over the years, so is it better to accept the costs now and find someone I truly want to work with?

Looking for advice on if property management has been worth it for local investors and if so who would you recommend?  I have had 2 contracts to review, one at 9% fees and one at 10%. 

Any other questions, just ask below and I’ll do my best to answer!

Keywords: Hammond, New Orleans, Louisiana


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Rental Property Investor · NorCal · Member since 2018 · 399 posts · 222 votes
6y

I have property here in the bay area that I self-manage. I got my plumber, electrician, etc, on speed-dial so it's not a big deal and after 2 years of maintenance experience on these ones, it would be a waste of money to hand off to a PM. I have properties out of state that I use a PM for, and the cost is much less ($1700 for a 1 bed in the bay area, $700 for a 1 bed in KCMO) and I'm too far away to want to hustle up a plumber or electrician on a Sunday so it's worth my while. So that decision is up to you. From what I read, you have not yet quite reached your pain point. When you do, you'll know and hand off to a PM. Gather the additional properties you plan and you'll get to your pain point. :-)

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  • Rental Property Investor · Modesto/Stockton/Merced, CA · Member since 2020 · 456 posts · 214 votes
    6y

    Is Pm for you really falls on the case by case basis.

    You gotta ask yourself is losing 10% really that big of an exchange to free up your Sundays or any other real estate related issue. That's the real question. Maybe you can negotiate the rate down. 

    best of luck, Nicolas

  • Peter TverdovBusiness Member
    Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    This board is mostly pro-self landlording. Just use the search function. I am a property manager so I'm biased but good ones are worth every penny. We have made our clients thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars by getting properties rented properly, by solving tenant headaches, zoning and construction issues, etc.

    It's only a cost if they're not providing any value.

    Lastly, your time is a cost. Something a lot of people don't grasp. 

  • Nathan FisherBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2020 · 319 posts · 269 votes
    6y

    As both a property manager and an investor myself,  I recommend keeping an eye on  the other fees.

    10% isn't much, but if you add tenant finding fees, maintenance fees, and make ready costs, It can add up quick. 

    I'm doing research on innovative property management compensation structures, if anyone has any thoughts.

  • Member since 2020 · 20 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    @Nicolas Blish what company did you find at 9%? I got some property in the Slidell area I’m thinking of letting a property management company handle. But like you said, it’s not to hard to manage.

  • Member since 2020 · 57 posts · 14 votes
    6y

    In my opinion, as you scale up, it would become increasingly difficult to manage more and more properties. Thus taking away from the "passive income" feel of things as it begins to turn into more of a job. If it were up to me, I'd manage my own properties until I felt like it was cutting too much into my time that could be invested better elsewhere: i.e. learning, searching for deals, building my network, ect. 

    Cheers!

    -Aaron

  • Amy VergesBusiness Member
    Investor · Baton Rouge, LA · Member since 2014 · 128 posts · 138 votes
    6y

    I agree with what several others have said: this decision depends a lot on your situation and personality.  I own a PM company and I always tell people that NO ONE will manage your property as well as you do. Sometimes I even recommend that an investor continue or start to manage their own properties.  That being said, the biggest question is whether that time could be better spent doing something more productive (finding & evaluating other deals, etc) or more enjoyable (spending time with family & friends, travel, so on).  It also depends on your personality.  Some investors get totally stressed out dealing with typical management duties (having to threaten eviction, making sure a repair gets completed) while others let it roll off their back.  The answer is different for everyone and a lot boils down to finding a PM you work well with and trust.  Good luck!

  • Rental Property Investor · NorCal · Member since 2018 · 399 posts · 222 votes
    6y

    I have property here in the bay area that I self-manage. I got my plumber, electrician, etc, on speed-dial so it's not a big deal and after 2 years of maintenance experience on these ones, it would be a waste of money to hand off to a PM. I have properties out of state that I use a PM for, and the cost is much less ($1700 for a 1 bed in the bay area, $700 for a 1 bed in KCMO) and I'm too far away to want to hustle up a plumber or electrician on a Sunday so it's worth my while. So that decision is up to you. From what I read, you have not yet quite reached your pain point. When you do, you'll know and hand off to a PM. Gather the additional properties you plan and you'll get to your pain point. :-)

  • Engineer · Ponchatoula, LA · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Peter Tverdov  The present value of my time is increasing, that's one of the main reasons I'm looking to outsource.  We have a baby on the way, our first, and I have been able to secure side work with my engineering degree that pays better than the fees would probably ever cost.  I just haven't seen a contract that makes me think I should sign on, it seems like I get nickel and dimed.  That's probably most people's concern when taking this step though, only to realize how much time it was actually taking out of their personal/work life to handle what seemed insignificant.

    I think I'm going to sign on, at least one of my properties, and see how it goes.  I plan to redline a clause I saw though that states the contract is valid so long as any tenants they place are in the building.  I understand they are just trying to protect themselves from people cancelling after placing tenants but they also have a year long contract, it seems one or the other should be all that is needed.

  • Amy VergesBusiness Member
    Investor · Baton Rouge, LA · Member since 2014 · 128 posts · 138 votes
    6y

    @Nicolas Blish Yikes. I wouldn’t agree to that either. My management company is here in BR and I use an agreement that is essentially month to month. Either party can cancel with a 30 day notice at any time, for any reason.

  • Real Estate Broker · 3412 S. Harlem Avenue Riverside, IL 60546 · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y

    @Nicolas Blish I have had four property managers now over the six years I have been an investor. I was up to 58 doors until I recently sold a 20 unit out of state. The 20 unit would have made me and my partner 40-50k in cash flow per year IF it was well managed. We never felt we could get the management part right, so it didn't make sense to hang onto forever. 

    Locally here in Chicago I have two buildings managed by a professional company and I still self manage 28 units currently. I am in the process of purchasing a 22 unit building and have more or less decided to start building out my own internal company as I scale. The main issue for me is not the cost of the PM, but the loss in revenue and service quality to my tenants. I turn units faster, get them rented at lightening speed and retain tenants which all shows up in your bottom line. You won't truly know if you have a good PM or not until you have a unit turn. That is when you see if they just set it and forget it or if they really have great systems in place. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 172 posts · 110 votes
    6y

    Like @David de Luna I have local properties that I manage myself and out of state properties that i have a property manager for. It's mostly your tolerance. It's not about the work or the time, for me, but I reach a point where it is taking up too much of my headspace. And when that happens I can't be productive in other areas that include financing, finding more properties, etc. 

    I've only just started using a property manager for my out of state properties and I love it. It's a magnitude more scaleable. And feels truly passive.

  • Real Estate Agent · Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2014 · 486 posts · 303 votes
    6y

    @Nicolas Blish Yoi could always try and negotiate a short term contract to try it out.

  • Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @David de Luna:

    I have property here in the bay area that I self-manage. I got my plumber, electrician, etc, on speed-dial so it's not a big deal and after 2 years of maintenance experience on these ones, it would be a waste of money to hand off to a PM. I have properties out of state that I use a PM for, and the cost is much less ($1700 for a 1 bed in the bay area, $700 for a 1 bed in KCMO) and I'm too far away to want to hustle up a plumber or electrician on a Sunday so it's worth my while. So that decision is up to you. From what I read, you have not yet quite reached your pain point. When you do, you'll know and hand off to a PM. Gather the additional properties you plan and you'll get to your pain point. :-)

    I am in the same boat. I have an upcoming vacancy in my Bay Area townhouse. I am in Singapore, 16 hours time difference. I posted the vacancy on Zillow. In less than 5 days had a new renter.  My current tenant showed the property to the new one. A family member  will handle the move out and move in. All my tenants agree to handle minor repairs by calling appropriate repair people for a quote(I do have a plumber on call for leaks etc) and just get my approval on the cost. I collect rent by direct bank transfer. At $3700 rent I don't want to pay even 5% to a PM. In a year I may get two maintenance requests.

    I also have a few Indy properties at 700-1000 rent range. There is no way I could manage those without a PM. Constant repairs, chasing for rent, vacancies etc etc. Still profitable but not without a ton of work. is 10% worth it for that? Most definitely.

  • Real Estate Broker · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2018 · 101 posts · 85 votes
    6y

    Work in reverse and calculate what you are worth per hour. Calculate how many hours a month you are dealing with the properties and multiply that by your hourly "worth". Is it over $345/mo? Hire out. If it is less, keep on keeping on until it no longer makes sense, as you are losing money by spending your own time, which has a cost associated to it. 

  • Investor · Durham · Member since 2017 · 589 posts · 251 votes
    6y

    Since you explained that you have managed them in the past you must have already learned quite a bit about property management. With this being said now that you are taking on more work you could delegate them to a manager just to take that stress off of you so you can produce income to buy more. 

  • Stephen KeigheryBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · New Orleans, LA · Member since 2018 · 717 posts · 555 votes
    6y

    Personally I believe in running your portfolio like a business and also valuing your time. This means I pay for property manager. Its really your call though, there is no right or wrong answer.

    Home Buyer Louisiana4.850 Reviews
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