Why are you refusing section 8 vouchers?
Member since 2020 · 137 posts · 158 votes
Why are you refusing section 8 vouchers?
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Rental Property Investor · Troy · Member since 2017 · 175 posts · 271 votes
5y(1) Inspectors have to justify their job. So, they will always find something. One time, we showed them a recently renovated unit. They literally did not find a single thing wrong with the unit. But they dinged us on peeling paint on the wooden post as divider for the garden area. Remediation for that was easy enough. We just painted over it. But the point remains. You can give them a perfect unit and they will still find something wrong with it.
(2) Section 8 tenants are lazy and demanding. They will literally demand that you come out to press the reset button on the gfi.
(3) No accountability at all. Every section 8 tenant I have ever had ended up trashing the place. They also live in filthy conditions.
Sorry, will never do section 8 ever again. Too much of a headache dealing with this segment of the tenant pool.
Edit.
Section 8 tenants are kings and queens of the learned helplessness examples. They never ever want to improve their lives. The tragic thing is they pass this learned helplessness onto their children. It's sad to watch them not able to do the simplest things. They don't even have the common sense for the simplest things.
For example, one time they poured grease down the drain and clogged it. They told us the kitchen sink was clogged. When I got there, the kitchen was semi-flooded. Why? Because they continued to use the sink anyway and it was overflowing onto the kitchen floor. Honestly, do you really want to deal with people like this? I was going to say they are dumber than rocks but I'm sure social justice warriors on here will kill me over it. But how would you describe people who continue to use the kitchen sink that was clogged even though it was flooding the kitchen floor?
212 Replies
- Port Chester, NY · Member since 2016 · 210 posts · 157 votes5y
Originally posted by @Sachin Amin:
every maintenance call costs investor $100 period(labor + parts + what not) . (unless you own PM company)
because in section 8 we have to abide by certain standards and these maintenance calls are often made by tenants as they know its not costing them anything -sometime tenants take advantage of this
Then you choose not to renew their lease when it's up. We've never had this experience, and rarely hear from the section 8 / HAP tenants since they do not want to rock the boat so to speak.
- Investor · Fort Washington, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
@Jay Hinrichs :
From some of your later posts I concur but initially you elaborated on how they beat the hell out of your property and move in baby daddies. - 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Mark Cruse:
@Jay Hinrichs :
From some of your later posts I concur but initially you elaborated on how they beat the hell out of your property and move in baby daddies.Well having owned 200 SFR section 8s in Jackson MS this did occur.. I am not going to say it did not.. just relaying my personal experiences.
ANd of course its not every house or tenant.. However for ME personally I dont care to deal with Section 8 anymore..
Keep in mind when my Dad first started selling real estate in the 60s he was doing in home presentations.. Management instructed their sales men that if certain ethnic persons answered the door ( and it was not all Black) that you were to say wrong address and just leave.
My Dad said BS we will work with anyone so when he started his own company he focused on the folks that were getting this treatment and he absolutely crushed it.. I personally probably sold 20 to 30 Black families land per year for going on 10 years straight. Along with 5 to 10 a year Asian. And if I was really lucky i got into a huge Pilipino referral chain.
I don't have all the answers I don't think anyone does.. So all I can do is relay my personal experience's..
PS I fund in Baltimore city to this day now granted I exit before the tenant moves in.. But I will continue to work in the areas that need our help taking beat up homes and make them livable and let the landlords that want to own and manage these homes keep the neighborhoods moving forward.
Also last point.. I was the first person to build a new construction Off of America Street in Charleston SC.. in the last 25 years.. WE pioneered it. locals called me crazy but the numbers worked.. the street was 100% black residents and guess who bought the house.. SHEP from Southern Charm.. now others have followed us and there are probably no less than 100 new builds in these areas were the housing were falling down and the neighborhoods needed capital infusion.. 38 Aiken is an example if you care to look..
- Rental Property Investor · SF Bay Area, CA · Member since 2015 · 206 posts · 156 votes5y
I think some folks needs to take a breath. The original poster started this thread in a manner that provoked opinion.
Everyone has the right to their own opinion. Whether they feel comfortable renting to section 8 tenants is their business.
I own a 3/1 rental in an A/B neighborhood and recently received an application from a section 8 client. I screened this individual just like the rest of the applicants. Another applicant just happened to meet my criteria better so I went with that other group.
In this case I opted for the 2 friends, as opposed to the section 8 family of 5 with 2 dogs. With my 3/1 SFH, I simply want to prevent as much wear and tear on my home as possible. Also, I needed to get someone in quickly, as the last tenant broke their lease, and didn't have time to jump through section 8 inspection hoops.
So nothing racial or provocative here. It’s simply business.
- Columbus, OH · Member since 2018 · 164 posts · 126 votes5y
@Mike A. - depends on location , but yes for my properties in OH (big no-no to Section 8) - my properties in Mississippi and Baltimore - Big Yes to Section 8)
- Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes5y
@Ana Marie B.: about section 8 actually it's not about opinion, it's about the experience. The house is being trashed by sec 8 is very real. Spent 7k to repair for something that can be avoided. The other property investment is not paid after failed sec 8 inspection too for only "a cold moisture from the door" and that is also very real.
I thought it was only me that's unlucky but found many others had the same experiences. - 5yJulie MarquezPro MemberInvestor · Skagit County, WA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 807 votes
The program doesn't work with our m2m offerings, I believe they require a one year lease.
- Rental Property Investor · SF Bay Area, CA · Member since 2015 · 206 posts · 156 votes5y
@Carlos Ptriawan - I think you misunderstood my post. Experience forms opinion.
- Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes5y
My major problem with Section 8 has not so much been with the tenants but that it takes so long to get a house inspected and approved. I insist that anyone wanting to rent Section 8 have their voucher in hand before I consider them. But my best Section 8 tenants applied for a voucher after they were already renting from me.
- Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 876 votes5y
Originally posted by @Mike A.:
Originally posted by @Sachin Amin:
every maintenance call costs investor $100 period(labor + parts + what not) . (unless you own PM company)
because in section 8 we have to abide by certain standards and these maintenance calls are often made by tenants as they know its not costing them anything -sometime tenants take advantage of this
Then you choose not to renew their lease when it's up. We've never had this experience, and rarely hear from the section 8 / HAP tenants since they do not want to rock the boat so to speak.
That's not an option here in NJ, lease renewal is mandatory per our "anti-eviction" statute. Saying 'yes' is the last choice a landlord gets.
- Investor · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2015 · 87 posts · 41 votes5y
Johann Jells, said "That's not an option here in NJ, lease renewal is mandatory per our "anti-eviction" statute."
Lease renewal is not the same as anti-eviction in NJ, is it? Are you required to renew a lease for any and all tenants without exception?
- Port Chester, NY · Member since 2016 · 210 posts · 157 votes5y
Originally posted by @Johann Jells:
Originally posted by @Mike A.:
Originally posted by @Sachin Amin:
every maintenance call costs investor $100 period(labor + parts + what not) . (unless you own PM company)
because in section 8 we have to abide by certain standards and these maintenance calls are often made by tenants as they know its not costing them anything -sometime tenants take advantage of this
Then you choose not to renew their lease when it's up. We've never had this experience, and rarely hear from the section 8 / HAP tenants since they do not want to rock the boat so to speak.
That's not an option here in NJ, lease renewal is mandatory per our "anti-eviction" statute. Saying 'yes' is the last choice a landlord gets.
They can't force you to renew. I know several landlords in NJ, they've opted not to renew tenants before. I know, because of COVID, the threat of evictions are not possible. However, the gov't cannot force you to accept a tenant at renewal. Another option may be month to month leases. We do them in NY and CT.
- Port Chester, NY · Member since 2016 · 210 posts · 157 votes5y
Originally posted by @Sachin Amin:
@Mike A. - depends on location , but yes for my properties in OH (big no-no to Section 8) - my properties in Mississippi and Baltimore - Big Yes to Section 8)
OH is bad for section 8?
- Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 876 votes5y
Originally posted by @Mike A.:
You are incorrect about this. Of course there are tenants who don't know their rights, but the law is quite explicit. You either need an evictable cause or they decline to take a reasonable rent hike. The rent raise cannot be "unconscionable", as defined by the presiding judge at a hearing. It's generally assumed the line is 5-10%.
A landlord must follow the requirements of the Eviction Law and cannot refuse to renew a lease without good cause (See Causes for Eviction), except in the case of owner-occupied two and three family dwellings, transient or seasonal tenants - Rental Property Investor · Troy · Member since 2017 · 175 posts · 271 votes5y
Originally posted by @Mike A.:
We've had mixed success. Not so great in Bridgeport, Stratford or upstate NY. Little issues with one's in Stamford though. It's nice to have the guaranteed payment, but I also realize that some are just so lazy that their actions hurt their offspring. Thus, they follow in their footsteps. Rarely do they ever break away from the section 8/HAP/gov't help life. It's sad, but they do not know better. Literally, I had to go over the weekend to replace a lightbulb. The tenant didn't know why her lights were out. All she had were old incandescent lightbulbs which she said they were new. They also do not know not to spill grease or oil down the sink. Sigh.
I'm glad I'm not the only one willing to admit to having observed this.
These people and their children are trapped in the system. In a way, they literally never grew up. Normal tenants (people) had to learn basic life skills to maintaining a home. Like not to pour grease down the drain. Or press the reset button of the gfci if it popped. Or keep the windows closed when it's raining so the hardwood floor doesn't get drenched. Or turn off the lights when not in use. Or turn off the tv when not in use. Or clean up the food to keep ants and bugs away. Or not flush tampons down the toilet.
You know, very basic life skills. But a lot of these people have been taken care of by the system for so long and generation after generation that they never had to learn these very basic life skills.
Don't get me wrong. I'm as liberal as anyone can be. And I used to be all for public housing to help the poor. But after having dealt with section 8, I have completely changed my mind about that. On the business side, it's a pain in the rear to deal with. It's like dealing with children. On the moral side, I can no longer support such a system that trap people in perpetual helplessness.
- Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2020 · 119 posts · 84 votes5y
If the landlord presents a nice, clean, habitable home that meets all Section 8 requirements, then the tenant allows the home to fall into disrepair by not caring for it properly or failing to report maintenance issues, not only is that a problem in and of itself for the landlord, but it can also lead to the tenant being dropped from the program. This means no income, no rent, and no reimbursement for forthcoming damages.
- Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2020 · 50 posts · 31 votes5y
@James York
Section 8 requires a lot of work—specifically, you have to deal with Section 8 applicants who never seem to understand the program, even after being on it for years. Also, housing counselors who are overworked and underpaid (and almost absurdly hard to get ahold of) must be constantly nudged to move their process forward. Then there’s annual property inspections and, oh yes, even more paperwork to get the rent payments coming in. - 5yDawn AnastasiPro MemberRental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
I believe that section 8 tenants are great tenants because the threat of losing their housing is constantly looming over their heads.
This is not the case everywhere. In Milwaukee, a Section 8 tenant can get evicted and they just take their voucher to another rental. Landlords here complain about how unfair this is all the time. There are very rare cases where the tenant gets kicked off the program, but I've never actually seen it happen myself.
- Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes5y
yes Eric. And the maintenance cost of the immigrant is much much much more lower than sec 8. They really made the house beautiful. Exact opposite of sec 8.
- Real Estate Agent · Providence, RI · Member since 2020 · 41 posts · 29 votes5y
I have rented to section 8 once and unfortunately, it was not a good experience. They did cause significant damage to my house and when we tried to keep their security deposit to pay for the damage they threaten me and my family. In the end, we just gave them their security deposit back because we wanted them out of our life and feared for what they were capable of doing to us and our property. BUT and there is a big BUT, we did not properly screen them and that was our fault (we were new at being landlords). We never met the boyfriend before they moved in because he wasn't on the lease so we didn't realize he would be a permanent resident. He had a criminal record a mile long. We learned a very valuable lesson which was you have to do a background check on everyone living in house. I would be open to renting to section 8 again in the future, but the background check, credit report, references from prior residents have to be checked and rechecked, just like every other applicant!
- Investor · St. Louis, MO · Member since 2015 · 87 posts · 41 votes5y
Wow! This topic has created a ton of traffic!
Lam N. said, "...Normal tenants (people) had to learn basic life skills to maintaining a home." Then, listed several examples of supposed "basic life skills."
The longer you live, the more you realize there are no such things as "basic life skills" or "common sense" anymore. Many tenants did not grow up in America or even in your neighborhood. There are so many different societal beliefs, opinions, myths, and upbringing experiences that it is unrealistic to believe that everyone thinks the same as you do!
Not everyone knows how to reset a GFCI. Not everyone turns the light off every time they leave a room. Many people don't know how to operate a programmable thermostat. Some people will pour grease down the drain and follow it with Dawn dishwashing liquid. My point is that everyone does not know what you know, and you do not know what everyone else knows!
Some ways to combat that variance are by 1) doing a detailed screening on every potential occupant of the unit, 2) having a comprehensive lease that spells out those things that you consider important, 3) taking time to thoroughly walk the tenant through your unit showing and explaining to them how to operate everything, 4) letting them know in no uncertain terms what you will and will not tolerate, and 5) tell them to call you first if they have any questions about the unit.
When one of us made a mistake in the military, the Seargent would ask, "What did you assume?" It is not a good idea to assume anything about your tenants. You have to ask! As landlords, we have to throw away our cookie cutters!
- New to Real Estate · Indianapolis IN · Member since 2018 · 6 posts · 6 votes5y
@James York
My experience is hit or miss. But that said I don’t think the good really outweighs the bad. Many voucher residents are hard on apartments. They have the mindset that it’s not “their” apartment. So why does it matter if they kick holes in doors and walls or let leaking plumbing go until it causes substantial damage.
If you are renting section 8 I’d demand to do filter changes and inspections min every 3 months. That way you can put eyes on the interior and make sure your lease is iron clad as for what you expect as far as cleanliness
- New to Real Estate · Indianapolis IN · Member since 2018 · 6 posts · 6 votes5y
@Lam N.
Totally agree! I had a resident break into her bedroom busted up the door and frame. Then demanded it get fixed. I said “sure no problem but you are paying for it!”
Her response and I quote” Why the @$&” I gotta pay for it, it’s the government’s apartment!” My response “No, it’s absolutely not the governments it’s ours, you just are lucky enough to live in a country that will take care of people just because they don’t want to work!” 😬🤦🏼♂️
- Investor · Newton, MA · Member since 2009 · 69 posts · 19 votes5y
In Massachusetts it's illegal to refuse Section 8, however, as someone who has been renting to both market and Seciton 8 tenants since 2016, I have very negative experience with Section 8. On average they're definitely NOT as qualified as market tenants. The author, and those who haven't dealt with Section 8, are naive for thinking that they are. Here is my experience with Section 8 in MA:
1. They see the lease terms as "suggestions" rather than "rules", often getting illegal pets, paying rent late (sometimes not paying it at all or playing stupid claiming that they thought Section 8 already paid for them). They will damage your walls/doors by slamming them when they get in fights with each other and claim it was "like that to begin with".
2. They expect to be pampered. They know the laws, they know how to play victim and will often play that card against you when convenient for them. I had a lady who would routinely get in fights with her boyfriend, and after he or she would damage doors by kicking them they'd expect me to fix it for free. When confronted, she would call inspections department to complain.
3. They don't value your property (see bullet above) and will damage it. Moreover, their damage will often exceed the security deposit (if you can collect it from them at all). There are also agencies that will pay security deposit for them (so they have no skin in the game).
4. There is a lot of drama. If they don't get along with their neighbors (or neighbors confront them about noise or disorderly conduct), they will text you with a frivolous accusation about the tenant in question. Similarly, if you don't side with them, they will escalate with a frivolous accusation to the housing authority. The housing authority will typically side with the tenant because that's how their rules are written and those bureaucrats do't care about you. In their eyes you're guilty until proven innocent.
5. Housing authority often does not respect you or your property rights. They will force their own lease on you, completely ignoring yours. Their lease protects themselves, not you. This practice may be unique to MA (and in my opinion should be illegal).
6. They're treated as a protected class by courts. Evicting them is a nightmare and can take years. That's a years of stress, reduced rents (because you'll only be collecting rent from housing authority), tenant retaliation (damage, running your water 24/7, frivolous inspection calls, they get very creative when they have so much free time due to being unemployed, as is often the case). One tenant I evicted ran up $20,000 water bill. Would you want a tenant like that?
7. Similar to previous bullet, they get a free attorney in court (at least in Massachusetts). You do not. That means they're interested in dragging out that case for as long as possible, meanwhile you're trying to get them out before it costs you tens of thousands.
8. They are extremely good at playing the victim card. They will bring their entire family to court, as well as a mandatory crying baby that's not even theirs to get the judge to sympathize with them. Even if you win in court, the judge will often ask you to make multiple concessions, such as giving them extra time to find new housing ans/or paying the security deposit + first month rent for them for the new landlord (so that the cycle continues).
9. The courts are extremely inefficient, and they have no motivation to improve because it costs YOU money, not them. Courts will stall the case for months (and this is pre-COVID) encouraging you to "settle" with the tenant instead of going through with the eviction. This is basically government-facilitated extortion, where you'll pay several thousand dollars to get the tenant to leave so they're not holding your property hostage.
Not all Section 8 tenants are like this, but majority are, avoiding Section 8 is one of the easiest ways to minimize landlord headaches and expenses. And this won't change until the government stops being blind to these issues.
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