Section 8 Tenants Turning Away Inspection Guy, Want Them Out
Homeowner · Newark, NJ · Member since 2018 · 7 posts · 2 votes
Section 8 Tenants Turning Away Inspection Guy, Want Them Out
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Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
5yThe title of your thread would lead many to believe that these tenants are the problem. After reading the post it appears to be something completely different.
If a Section 8 inspector came into that property right now based on what you are saying, the inspector could very well hold up further payments from the housing authority until you fix the very things the tenant is talking about......and,,,,,if the eviction moratorium keeps getting dragged out you will NOT be able to evict them for non-payment.
Brother you are going down a dangerous path and (potentially) giving landlords a bad name.
No disrespect, but you need to do the right thing by your tenants and fix those things before they become disillsioned with you as the new owner and make things really difficult my man.
Those are the sort of things that should have been addressed in the home inspection before you closed on the property and you should have had the previous owner take care of this beforehand.
10 Replies
- Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
The title of your thread would lead many to believe that these tenants are the problem. After reading the post it appears to be something completely different.
If a Section 8 inspector came into that property right now based on what you are saying, the inspector could very well hold up further payments from the housing authority until you fix the very things the tenant is talking about......and,,,,,if the eviction moratorium keeps getting dragged out you will NOT be able to evict them for non-payment.
Brother you are going down a dangerous path and (potentially) giving landlords a bad name.
No disrespect, but you need to do the right thing by your tenants and fix those things before they become disillsioned with you as the new owner and make things really difficult my man.
Those are the sort of things that should have been addressed in the home inspection before you closed on the property and you should have had the previous owner take care of this beforehand.
- Homeowner · Newark, NJ · Member since 2018 · 7 posts · 2 votes5y
I think you are rushing to conclusions.
During inspection the seller LIED and said the tenants were unavailable to show the unit but it was "identical to the 3rd floor", so I did not see the condition until later on. Truthfully, the condition of that unit would not have dissuaded me from purchasing. The poor condition of the home is something that happened due to lack of maintenance by the previous owner and no purview from Section 8 because the tenant turned them away repeatedly. Upon purchase, I asked the tenants for a wishlist of items that needed attention and they told me "oh no, everything's fine, we don't like to complain." The only reason these details are coming up now is because they saw that I made renovations to a different unit. The tenants are exhibiting a pattern of under-communicating; this is not negligence on my part.
These issues would have been fixed already -- whether by me, or the previous owner -- if the condition of the unit was not being misrepresented and the process was not being tampered with. I am willing to fix things that are broken, but NOT to make cosmetic updates on a unit that is going for below market value. - Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
I hear you sir.................and it is unfortunate that a seller lied about the condition of a unit. It happens. As a protection, I always advise my clients that we need to see ALL rooms. Even if a Section 8 Inspector won't be allowed to see all rooms then the buyers (you) should absolutely be allowed to see all rooms inside the property. If you are remote like a lot of people are then a home inspection is done from a licensed home inspector (whether there is an inspection contingency or not) and that inspector will most assuredly point out those things. This way it's not a surprise that is discovered after closing because the seller lied.
In other words, if the tenant is "not available" and won't give permission for someone to go insdie their unit that is usually a yellow flag. not a deal breaker,...but it can certainly make a number of people "pause". When the tenant does this repeatedly that is a red flag.
We always have a clause in there that says, we don't close until we can see the entire property. IF a tenant won't let us....repeatedly......we keep it moving.
"Cabinets are falling off the wall, tiles are cracked, the ceiling is old, there is no range hood over the stove" may seem cosmetic to you, but I can tell you that the Section 8 Housing authorities that I have properties in that are located in Cleveland, Ohio, Oakland Housing Authority in the Bay Area and the Contra Costa Housing Authority would fail us for those things so it's work that would need to be done anyway.Again....it is very unfortunate that the seller lied to you.
- 5yTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
If the inspector goes through tell them their rent will go up with the upgrades. You could call and talk to their caseworker and said you've talked to the tenants and need to do some repairs to the unit. Ask them about current market rent and how you go about getting their rent to fair market value. Also ask about timelines to do the repairs.
- Homeowner · Newark, NJ · Member since 2018 · 7 posts · 2 votes5y
Originally posted by @Brian Garlington:
Cabinets are falling off the wall, tiles are cracked, the ceiling is old, there is no range hood over the stove" may seem cosmetic to you, but I can tell you that the Section 8 Housing authorities that I have properties in that are located in Cleveland, Ohio, Oakland Housing Authority in the Bay Area and the Contra Costa Housing Authority would fail us for those things so it's work that would need to be done anyway.
Sorry for the misunderstanding: those are not cosmetic issue to me at all, I named them because those are the main "real" issues in the kitchen. The NJHA would fail the unit for the missing range alone. I did not list the cosmetic requests the tenant made. Please read these posts from the standpoint that I am a responsible new landlord who got blindsided by a lying seller and under-communicating tenants who are looking to avoid a rent increase, not that I'm on my way to giving landlords a bad name.
I was advised to ask the tenants to leave upon purchasing the home, but I was a softy and did not want to displace people. Now I'm seeing how that might have been the better choice. Any insight into how I can turn this situation around and get market value? - Homeowner · Newark, NJ · Member since 2018 · 7 posts · 2 votes5y
Originally posted by @Theresa Harris:
If the inspector goes through tell them their rent will go up with the upgrades. You could call and talk to their caseworker and said you've talked to the tenants and need to do some repairs to the unit. Ask them about current market rent and how you go about getting their rent to fair market value. Also ask about timelines to do the repairs.
This is helpful advice, thank you!
- 5yBrandon SturgillBusiness MemberReal Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
@Jonathan Fouabi to @Brian Garlington points, a section 8 voucher payment will be suspended if the condition of the property is like you described...the PHA/MHA's are different in every city/county, but they all use the same HUD guidelines. We barely reserved payment in a property because 3 windows did not have screens...in the middle of winter. It sounds like there is a lot more going on than specified in your post...
The PHA/MHA is your best partner here if you are making improvements...you own the property...post notice to enter and fix the items...request the rent increase based on improvements.
If you are pushing to remove tenants, you will need to work with the PHA/MHA and get formal lease violations on record...the eviction moratorium does not apply to lease violations...but they have to be recorded by the housing authority and they have to be "repeated" violations.
- Homeowner · Newark, NJ · Member since 2018 · 7 posts · 2 votes5y
@Brandon Sturgill thank you for that insight. Unfortunately the tenant has not been able to produce the previous lease and the city claimed they could not find it either, so technically there is no lease. One half of the couple is also not listed as a tenant/household income with Section 8, while being a consistent resident there.
- Rental Property Investor · Newark, NJ · Member since 2017 · 88 posts · 75 votes5y
If the voucher is from NHA (Newark Housing Authority) which most are in Newark, they are notoriously tough on their inspections. We have failed inspections for light bulbs, loose door knobs, cabinet drawers not closing properly, door hinges being loose etc. From your description of the issues I'm pretty sure you will fail. Once you fail they will schedule your re-inspection about a week or 2 later. If you fail the re-inspection they will suspend payments and it can take months to reestablish your payments. For these reasons we usually do an inspection a week before the sec 8 inspection so we have time to fix any issues. I agree with @Brian Garlington to do the right thing and fix the issues that need to be fixed. I understand you are not receiving market rent but you knew that going in and hopefully you're making a decent profit already. I assure you resolving these issues the right way up front will save you money in the long run.
In reference to raising rent to market rate, doing that in Newark with Sec 8 tenants will take time. You will have to make major improvements to raise rent significantly due to rent control laws. Put in your increases with NHA every year and take care of the tenants and your will have a property that will pay you more money every year. Getting rid of tenants now is almost impossible. The only way to evict at the moment is if the tenant is destroying the property or there is an imminent safety risk. I hope this helps and I am rooting for you as we need more quality and responsible landlords in Newark. There's a lot of opportunity here if you do it the right way. If I can help in any way please feel free to reach out.
- 5yPatti RobertsonBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Make the repairs then request a rent increase. If the tenant has been there for at least a year, which it sounds like they have, this shouldn’t be an issue.
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