Oregon extends rent repayment another year!
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews
Oregon extends rent repayment another year!
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Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
5yStop complaining, they had it worse in the old days.
95 Replies
- 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Gary L Wallman:
What I don't understand is how any state can get away with this. In the Constitution of the United States, article first, section tenth, declares that no State shall pass a law impairing the obligations of a contract. This must be equivalent to saying no State shall pass a law revoking, invalidating, or altering a contract.
Pretty sure a lease is a contract. How have we gone this far astray from our founding principles? You know. . . the ones that made us the greatest country on earth.Gary, this is interesting and we see this on the development side . Where you have older CCR's that allow all sorts of ( in today's world uses that are not allowed) Especially when it comes to density.. I had a 50 lot project in Beaverton and the old CCRs required 15k sq ft lots. The zoning ( Oregon is a proponent of high density don't touch farm land) So the City zoning following the state and metro guidelines was for 5 to 7 sq ft lots.. The neighbors to the north of us were all on the bigger lots with houses built in the 60s. We could not get a title company to insure our smaller lots as it went against the recorded CCRs. We could create them but could not realistically sell them. So I went round and round with the City council and they finally approved the larger lots and one of the City council members said he does not understand then why we have zoing at all he was not happy.. so you have contractual obligation ( recorded CCRs ) and conflicting zoning. Further ONLY one title company would insure us because we included rights of way in the lots 15k sq ft so the building envelopes were really about 7k sq ft ( compromise for the city). Is all built out now with really nice 700 to 1 mil homes and know one knows the pain we went through to get that done.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
Amazon is notorious for abusing their employees. They expect employees to act like they are being handed a gold ingot at the end of every shift. Doesn't matter what they pay - only those willing to accept such mistreatment will accept those positions.
- Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
Do you agree with here?
Poor people are overly protected from hardship. But so are affluent Americans maybe even more so. If we are going to have an economy that relays on spending and consumption there won’t be many good jobs for unskilled people but the whole system is still dependent on everyone consuming. The more asset prices inflate the more pissed and less true guys like me telling working people they need to improve themselves to get ahead will be.Enjoy reading everybody on the thread.
- Rental Property Investor · Beavercreek OH · Member since 2018 · 422 posts · 970 votes5y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Gary L Wallman:
What I don't understand is how any state can get away with this. In the Constitution of the United States, article first, section tenth, declares that no State shall pass a law impairing the obligations of a contract. This must be equivalent to saying no State shall pass a law revoking, invalidating, or altering a contract.
Pretty sure a lease is a contract. How have we gone this far astray from our founding principles? You know. . . the ones that made us the greatest country on earth.Gary, this is interesting and we see this on the development side . Where you have older CCR's that allow all sorts of ( in today's world uses that are not allowed) Especially when it comes to density.. I had a 50 lot project in Beaverton and the old CCRs required 15k sq ft lots. The zoning ( Oregon is a proponent of high density don't touch farm land) So the City zoning following the state and metro guidelines was for 5 to 7 sq ft lots.. The neighbors to the north of us were all on the bigger lots with houses built in the 60s. We could not get a title company to insure our smaller lots as it went against the recorded CCRs. We could create them but could not realistically sell them. So I went round and round with the City council and they finally approved the larger lots and one of the City council members said he does not understand then why we have zoing at all he was not happy.. so you have contractual obligation ( recorded CCRs ) and conflicting zoning. Further ONLY one title company would insure us because we included rights of way in the lots 15k sq ft so the building envelopes were really about 7k sq ft ( compromise for the city). Is all built out now with really nice 700 to 1 mil homes and know one knows the pain we went through to get that done.
Jay,
Way too many regulatory bodies with self-appointed Kings at the helm. Now we have the CDC trying to prevent lawful evictions. We need a way to fast track these cases to the Supreme Court, because these tyrants know they can usurp the Constitution and by the time the law is struck down and the government appeals, the damage has already been done.
Gary
- Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes5y
@Nathan Gesner there are actually many people who fall outside of stim funds, unemployment etc. I had one such tenant - so while I agree its hard on us LLs to extend the repayment period - most tenants were not going to be getting the back rent paid off by June in any case.... I mean - how is a person who makes 10/hr going to pay back a years worth of rent and keep their rent current? It aint gonna happen lets be honest. What needs to happen is the Govt needs to repay the LLs for all lost rent.
- 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Gary L Wallman:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Gary L Wallman:
What I don't understand is how any state can get away with this. In the Constitution of the United States, article first, section tenth, declares that no State shall pass a law impairing the obligations of a contract. This must be equivalent to saying no State shall pass a law revoking, invalidating, or altering a contract.
Pretty sure a lease is a contract. How have we gone this far astray from our founding principles? You know. . . the ones that made us the greatest country on earth.Gary, this is interesting and we see this on the development side . Where you have older CCR's that allow all sorts of ( in today's world uses that are not allowed) Especially when it comes to density.. I had a 50 lot project in Beaverton and the old CCRs required 15k sq ft lots. The zoning ( Oregon is a proponent of high density don't touch farm land) So the City zoning following the state and metro guidelines was for 5 to 7 sq ft lots.. The neighbors to the north of us were all on the bigger lots with houses built in the 60s. We could not get a title company to insure our smaller lots as it went against the recorded CCRs. We could create them but could not realistically sell them. So I went round and round with the City council and they finally approved the larger lots and one of the City council members said he does not understand then why we have zoing at all he was not happy.. so you have contractual obligation ( recorded CCRs ) and conflicting zoning. Further ONLY one title company would insure us because we included rights of way in the lots 15k sq ft so the building envelopes were really about 7k sq ft ( compromise for the city). Is all built out now with really nice 700 to 1 mil homes and know one knows the pain we went through to get that done.
Jay,
Way too many regulatory bodies with self-appointed Kings at the helm. Now we have the CDC trying to prevent lawful evictions. We need a way to fast track these cases to the Supreme Court, because these tyrants know they can usurp the Constitution and by the time the law is struck down and the government appeals, the damage has already been done.
Gary
AS it relates to private property ownership the gomit gives ( upzone on their own) and (Takes) Down zone on their own.
Moves Urban growth boundaries moves city limits all sorts of stuff that create and take away value.
there was a few years back a Prop 37 in Oregon that went through that was really wild.. It said if you as the owner have owned your property prior to 1975 ish in the same ownership you were allowed to go back to that zoning and develop.
Well you can see the inequity there .. one guy has 40 acres that was zoned favorably prior to 75 and can do a massive subdivision the neighbor who must adhere to todays zone on the same 40 acres is lucky to build one house.
Stimson Lumber with their Washington county and Tillamook county vast holdings made measure 37 claims on literally hundred thousand acres of timber ground into HBU higher density and buildable lands which value is greater than the production timber values.
Once the state figured it out they made it very difficult to prosecute a measure 37 claim and they finally did a way with it. It was land use anarchy..
The poster child for the pro 37 was a 95 year old lady who did constant TV and radio spots about how she could not build on her lots etc.
Thousand Fiends of Oregon (Friends) which is the big time off shoot of Sierra club out this way fought it tooth and nail.
- Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Ally Mager:
@Karl B.
Yes there is a landlord compensation fund. Unfortunately, it’s very difficult to obtain, there’s only a 70% recaptured limit (you forgive the last 30%) and many other items that make it unreasonable. Luckily we only have 2 out of 104 units not paying, but have decided to opt out of the compensation fund.
Pretty sure the fund repays 80% of the unpaid rent - not 70%.... also it is set up to help the smallest LLs - not the big guys - so if you have one or two rentals and one not paying (and the tenant still lives there) you should be able to get the funds. But at 104 units you probably dont qualify.....
Also there is a new fund that just opened that tenants can apply for....
While it absolutely sucks to have tenants not paying realistically there is no way they will be able to repay a years worth of rent. Its just lost income.
I am all for self sufficiency , but IMO many low wage folks were screwed during the pandemic ... and honestly it just reads badly on all of us LLs for us, with wealth, to be complaining about the lowest income bracket folks...... and yes, I am owed back rent and have a tenant behind right now....
I keep calling my elected leaders and others monthly - do you? - 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Steve B.:
@Daniel Smyth. Everything you mention is either illegal or infeasible in Oregon. Most states, including Oregon, don’t just allow you to shut off the power on tenants.
I tried this in CA around 1979 with my very first tenant.. did not go so well for me.. LOL yup taking the front door off shutting off water
power etc.. thats been basically illegal for decades.. I liked taking the front door off though.
- 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Mary M.:
@Nathan Gesner there are actually many people who fall outside of stim funds, unemployment etc. I had one such tenant - so while I agree its hard on us LLs to extend the repayment period - most tenants were not going to be getting the back rent paid off by June in any case.... I mean - how is a person who makes 10/hr going to pay back a years worth of rent and keep their rent current? It aint gonna happen lets be honest. What needs to happen is the Govt needs to repay the LLs for all lost rent.
AS it relates to work force housing in my mind rent that has not been paid will never be paid at least by the tenant.. thats just not reality and for sure just a pipe dream.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes5y
Low-income workers were screwed, but so we're many middle- and high-income people, particularly small business owners.
I'm curious how you grew up and got to your current position in life, Mary. I grew up poor, as did many if the middle-class and upper-class Landlords that were hit by the pandemic and continue to suffer. You seem to take pity on poor people that suffer but not on those that sacrificed and worked hard to dig themselves out of poverty. The poor received a lot of help and a large percentage of them suffered no loss or even gained income. Meanwhile, a lot of Landlords and other small business owners are taking significant hits to their income and wealth they've spent years - sometimes decades - building and your response is that they should suck it up as if they were somehow handed their position in society.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
A blanket one year seems overkill. Perhaps upto 1 year for qualifying extreme hardship cases is in order and if they have a fund for housing providers to collect % in place of those ghosting rents which I guess they have sort of.
Do gooders sometimes have the worse outcomes with the best intentions. In LA we passed a 2 billion homeless tax and managed to spend 500 mil of that for 200 $500k new condos to house a 60k+ homeless population. Made for a nice ribbon cutting photo opp and essentially ruined another half a block as those 200 new free condo dwellers have about 500 friends camping outside. Meanwhile the hard working immigrant is paying 2k a month next door. Progress.
- Member since 2021 · 4 posts · 2 votes5y
Holy cow, another full year? That's insane.
- 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
A blanket one year seems overkill. Perhaps upto 1 year for qualifying extreme hardship cases is in order and if they have a fund for housing providers to collect % in place of those ghosting rents which I guess they have sort of.
Do gooders sometimes have the worse outcomes with the best intentions. In LA we passed a 2 billion homeless tax and managed to spend 500 mil of that for 200 $500k new condos to house a 60k+ homeless population. Made for a nice ribbon cutting photo opp and essentially ruined another half a block as those 200 new free condo dwellers have about 500 friends camping outside. Meanwhile the hard working immigrant is paying 2k a month next door. Progress.
Matt nail on head. Seattle just did that.. the homesless are going to end up with nicer digs than many working families by a long shot..
And the hotel in Beaverton next to my Dentist office has just been converted to homeless.. My Dentist spent 1.5 million pimping out his offices and is now freaking out..
- 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Low-income workers were screwed, but so we're many middle- and high-income people, particularly small business owners.
I'm curious how you grew up and got to your current position in life, Mary. I grew up poor, as did many if the middle-class and upper-class Landlords that were hit by the pandemic and continue to suffer. You seem to take pity on poor people that suffer but not on those that sacrificed and worked hard to dig themselves out of poverty. The poor received a lot of help and a large percentage of them suffered no loss or even gained income. Meanwhile, a lot of Landlords and other small business owners are taking significant hits to their income and wealth they've spent years - sometimes decades - building and your response is that they should suck it up as if they were somehow handed their position in society.
One thing about real estate it can be the great equalizer its one of the few industries were you can get pretty wealthy on your own if you stick to it.. Dont need a formal education and your success if directly related to your efforts street smarts and throw in a touch of luck.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
A blanket one year seems overkill. Perhaps upto 1 year for qualifying extreme hardship cases is in order and if they have a fund for housing providers to collect % in place of those ghosting rents which I guess they have sort of.This was the problem with the entire eviction moratorium. They permitted tenants to stop paying rent without any evidence of hardship. I keep seeing more and more examples of non-paying tenants that are still employed or fully capable of gaining employment but refusing to make the effort because unemployment is good enough.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews - Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
Im meeting the retired head of A Thousand Friends of Oregon today their old big cheese lawyer. he was a friend of my dads but I guarantee they didn’t agree on a thing. I will be keeping my personal views to myself. LOL
- Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
A blanket one year seems overkill. Perhaps upto 1 year for qualifying extreme hardship cases is in order and if they have a fund for housing providers to collect % in place of those ghosting rents which I guess they have sort of.
Do gooders sometimes have the worse outcomes with the best intentions. In LA we passed a 2 billion homeless tax and managed to spend 500 mil of that for 200 $500k new condos to house a 60k+ homeless population. Made for a nice ribbon cutting photo opp and essentially ruined another half a block as those 200 new free condo dwellers have about 500 friends camping outside. Meanwhile the hard working immigrant is paying 2k a month next door. Progress.
Matt nail on head. Seattle just did that.. the homesless are going to end up with nicer digs than many working families by a long shot..
And the hotel in Beaverton next to my Dentist office has just been converted to homeless.. My Dentist spent 1.5 million pimping out his offices and is now freaking out..
Dang. After WW2 there were tens of thousands homeless vets that moved or stayed in LA. It was in % numbers worse than today. In 30 days the gov set up those quonsen huts barricks and housed 50k plus homeless vets in 30 days. It cost around 70 mil in todays dollars. That was back when the army could do stuff big and quick. Its too practical and unattractive for the mayor photo opp so its a no go today.
- 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Eric Bilderback:
Im meeting the retired head of A Thousand Friends of Oregon today their old big cheese lawyer. I will be keeping my personal views to myself. LOL
Dont bring me up LOL..
- Real Estate Agent · Sisters, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes5y
Good to know!
It can’t be as bad as when they had the school kids in PDX make a rap about how cool the wolves are for the Cattlemens Assoc. read the room people!
- 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
A blanket one year seems overkill. Perhaps upto 1 year for qualifying extreme hardship cases is in order and if they have a fund for housing providers to collect % in place of those ghosting rents which I guess they have sort of.This was the problem with the entire eviction moratorium. They permitted tenants to stop paying rent without any evidence of hardship. I keep seeing more and more examples of non-paying tenants that are still employed or fully capable of gaining employment but refusing to make the effort because unemployment is good enough.
To a certain extent or on a parallel thought process.. One just needs to look at the GFC.
I am sure home buyers did not know this or contemplate this when they bought their home but in many states primarily west coast that are Trust deed and Note states.. Purchase money Deeds of trust the bank could not get a deficiency judgement against the borrower in the event of a foreclosure.. Purchase money being defined as the first mortgage used to purchase the house.
Where as in other states TEXAS being prime example you default the banks can and will sue you..
In NV CA OR WA AZ folks just walked away with impunity only bad thing was a ding on their credit.. this fed the already bad market with what U had now was STRATIGIC foreclosures owners could pay but because they put next to nothing down the values dropped underwater on debt they decided in MASS to stop paying. So its not unheard of and happened with the starter housing the Rich the in between.. So its not shocking that folks given the opportunity and the law on their side would simply stop paying and risk their credit..
In those days it was the mean old banks they should never have lent me the money in the first place..
Today its the mean old landlord.
- 5yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Matt R.:
A blanket one year seems overkill. Perhaps upto 1 year for qualifying extreme hardship cases is in order and if they have a fund for housing providers to collect % in place of those ghosting rents which I guess they have sort of.
Do gooders sometimes have the worse outcomes with the best intentions. In LA we passed a 2 billion homeless tax and managed to spend 500 mil of that for 200 $500k new condos to house a 60k+ homeless population. Made for a nice ribbon cutting photo opp and essentially ruined another half a block as those 200 new free condo dwellers have about 500 friends camping outside. Meanwhile the hard working immigrant is paying 2k a month next door. Progress.
Matt nail on head. Seattle just did that.. the homesless are going to end up with nicer digs than many working families by a long shot..
And the hotel in Beaverton next to my Dentist office has just been converted to homeless.. My Dentist spent 1.5 million pimping out his offices and is now freaking out..
Dang. After WW2 there were tens of thousands homeless vets that moved or stayed in LA. It was in % numbers worse than today. In 30 days the gov set up those quonsen huts barricks and housed 50k plus homeless vets in 30 days. It cost around 70 mil in todays dollars. That was back when the army could do stuff big and quick. Its too practical and unattractive for the mayor photo opp so its a no go today.
And further back in the Depression the govmit set up CC camps .. put people work paid them .. it was hard work that I am afraid
the majority of our population probably cant or wont do.. It was called the Conservation Corps.. And you still see remnants of their camps through the west.. WE had one right up the river from our Ranch in Upper Lake CA.. it was turned into a camp ground and staging area for Motor cycle enduros annually it was called the cowbell
- Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
Amazon is notorious for abusing their employees. They expect employees to act like they are being handed a gold ingot at the end of every shift. Doesn't matter what they pay - only those willing to accept such mistreatment will accept those positions.
I'm not a big fan of Amazon, but come on. It's pathetic that there are so many people today who call hard work abuse and mistreatment. Read a book about worker conditions in older times. That was abuse and mistreatment. Working your butt off at Amazon is not. Perhaps their life would be better and they wouldn't be running around a warehouse 8 hours a day if they didn't drop out of high school.
For busting your butt, Amazon:✔ Pays above market wages
✔ Provides health benefits (including dental and vision) that are also available to spouses/children
✔ Frequently sets up in areas that have high unemployment / poor economic conditions
✔ Offers the ability to move up in the company
✔ Hires literally hundreds of thousands of unskilled workers - many of which would be on government handouts outherwise
And like I said, I'm not a big fan of Amazon. However, I'm a very big fan of busting your butt to get ahead in life.
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Greg M.:
Originally posted by @David Dachtera:
Amazon is notorious for abusing their employees. They expect employees to act like they are being handed a gold ingot at the end of every shift. Doesn't matter what they pay - only those willing to accept such mistreatment will accept those positions.
I'm not a big fan of Amazon, but come on. It's pathetic that there are so many people today who call hard work abuse and mistreatment. Read a book about worker conditions in older times. That was abuse and mistreatment. Working your butt off at Amazon is not. Perhaps their life would be better and they wouldn't be running around a warehouse 8 hours a day if they didn't drop out of high school.
For busting your butt, Amazon:✔ Pays above market wages
✔ Provides health benefits (including dental and vision) that are also available to spouses/children
✔ Frequently sets up in areas that have high unemployment / poor economic conditions
✔ Offers the ability to move up in the company
✔ Hires literally hundreds of thousands of unskilled workers - many of which would be on government handouts outherwise
And like I said, I'm not a big fan of Amazon. However, I'm a very big fan of busting your butt to get ahead in life.
Your definition of "busting your butt" and the NLRB's as well as the Fair Labor Practices Act would seem to differ.
When delivery drivers admit that they use empty drink containers, etc. instead of taking actual restroom breaks as well as other issues pertaining to Amazon's expectations, you may need to rethink your definition of "busting your butt".
- Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes5y
Originally posted by @Eric Bilderback:
Do you agree with here?
Poor people are overly protected from hardship. But so are affluent Americans maybe even more so. If we are going to have an economy that relays on spending and consumption there won’t be many good jobs for unskilled people but the whole system is still dependent on everyone consuming. The more asset prices inflate the more pissed and less true guys like me telling working people they need to improve themselves to get ahead will be.Enjoy reading everybody on the thread.
Um, Eric?
Poor people are -NOT- "overly protected from hardship". Quite the reverse. They are treated like the dregs of society, and affluent people are "protected" (lavished) at the expense of the poor.
American society HAS ALWAYS relied on spending and consumption. Corporate America seems to have lost sight of the fact consumers cannot consume unless they have money to spend on consumables.
When prospective students are priced out of the education market, well, so much for "improving one's self". No point in taking on a life-long debt if the best you can do is HOPE to find a job that will make the payments and still leave enough over to feed, house and clothe one's self and a possible family.
A class on economics at your local community or 4-year college might prove enlightening.
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