What's up Landlords out there. Making this post to get some feedback on what you guys would do to address a situation I am in regarding a single family home rental property I have. We purchased the property back in October of 2020 and had it listed for rent by November. The property has a good sized backyard with a private wood fence, however, the wood fence is very old and rotted, and it also appears to have been poorly installed. When we listed the property for rent and found our tenant of choice, we told the tenants that we would repair the fence prior to them moving in (they have a large dog and wanted to ensure it would be safe for the dog to run around). We sent in our maintenance guy to fix the worst of the fence spots, which at the time seemed to have solve the issue. However, the fence has continued to deteriorate in the past 9 months and at this point our only option is to do a full replacement, as the rotting is just about everywhere. Our tenant is angry and is telling us that per our original agreement, that the fence problems would be taken care of. I have started collecting quotes and a full replacement of the fence will cost us about $5-7k. Part of me wants to do this to keep the tenant happy, but my gut tells me that the tenant will only live at the property for another year or so before purchasing her own home. I am having a hard time justifying spending $6k to keep the tenant happy for a year, especially when we could just rip the fence out without it really impacting the rent we get on the property. What would you all do here? Pay the $6k to replace the fence, or do nothing and just deal with the pissed off tenant?

Landlords: What would you do?

Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2020 · 210 posts · 163 votes

5y

@Trevor Dominique i'd look at alternate materials also (PVC or chain link) or potentially doing the work yourself as well. Installing fences aren't very difficult, it's just labor intensive. The cost of lumber is really high right now, which is likely reflective in the quotes you got. If you could defer the work for another year or two, then you might be able to perform the work once lumber prices come back down to a realistic level. I would also try to identify what your ideal tenant is to help you make your decision. I think fences are marketable to families with kids, and tenants with dogs. If you're going to own the property long term, then I think replacing the fence might be a good long term investment. However, if you can get the same rent without the fence, then I do see how that would be tempting to just remove it.

5 Reply

Trevor Dominique

OP

Investor · Maumee, OH · Member since 2017 · 43 posts · 30 votes

5y

Originally posted by @Brendan Miller:

@Trevor Dominique i'd look at alternate materials also (PVC or chain link) or potentially doing the work yourself as well. Installing fences aren't very difficult, it's just labor intensive. The cost of lumber is really high right now, which is likely reflective in the quotes you got. If you could defer the work for another year or two, then you might be able to perform the work once lumber prices come back down to a realistic level. I would also try to identify what your ideal tenant is to help you make your decision. I think fences are marketable to families with kids, and tenants with dogs. If you're going to own the property long term, then I think replacing the fence might be a good long term investment. However, if you can get the same rent without the fence, then I do see how that would be tempting to just remove it.

Thanks for the feedback. Doing the work myself would not be an option as this property is about 600 miles from where I currently live. For each quote we get, we are getting prices for both chain link and wood, but I have been very surprised by how expensive the chain link is (only slightly cheaper than wood) which has made me want to do wood since it looks better and creates a private backyard.

I will add that the tenant has a new born baby and is usually home along during the day, so she wants to be able to let her dogs out without having to leave the house. So if we do not act fairly quick she will likely be angry with us.

0 Reply

Greg M.

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes

5y

You rented the property with a working fence. You are legally obligated to provide a working fence.

In many places, the tenant could withhold rent until it is fixed. If the tenant leaves before they normally would, what is the extra turnover cost to you? What is your liability for not fixing the fence?

$6K for a fence sucks. However, it probably works out to less than $1/day for the life of the fence. Suck it up and fix it. Welcome to being a landlord.

8 Reply

Bjorn AhlbladPro Member

Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes

5y

If that big dog tears into a neighborhood kid you will be out a lot more than 6k insurance or not. You said you would fix the fence do it for your own peace of mind if nothing else. All the best!

5 Reply

Scott Mac

Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes

5y

Would you be able to staple chicken wire to it and make it work, then sell the chicken wire on Craig's List when you are done with it (???)

3 Reply

Adam Martin

Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

5y

I love having fences and while I prefer to buy with a fence in place if the feel is good enough I plan on adding one. I am very pro dog I rentals and all my tenants have them. I get an extra 35/ month per dog plus an extra 650 deposit. I tried not having a fence in one property and it just sat there with several people commenting they wish it were fenced for their dogs. We added to the description we were getting one and had a lot more interest immediately and the person who rented commented she would not have if we didn’t add it. Especially if this is a long term and you intend to allow dogs just replace it. Wood is expensive but you promised it would be functional so it needs to be. Don’t throw good money after bad by repairing it and bite the bullet. Also it sounds like you are looking at privacy fences try a Kentucky 3 board fence they look nice and use less lumber.

3 Reply

David P.

Member since 2020 · 404 posts · 235 votes

5y

6k sounds pretty high. Is it a lot of linear feet? I got quoted about 1k labor for wood fence. I already had the post and the wood fence already. One thing you can ask is if your neighbor is willing to share the cost.

1 Reply

Michael A.

Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 164 posts · 114 votes

5y

@Trevor Dominique I know it feels like sticker shock, but you’re adding an asset. You can depreciate the fence as well. Your tenant was promised a fence so you should hold up your end of the bargain. My colleagues are able to charge about $50 more per month because of the fences they’ve added.

2 Reply

Patrick HancockBusiness Member

Real Estate Broker · Orlando, FL · Member since 2018 · 101 posts · 108 votes

5y

@Trevor Dominique replace the fence and replace it with something other than wood. In ten years (given you still own the property) the wood fence will begin to deteriorate again.

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4 Reply

Wesley W.

Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

5y

A couple takeaways for you here.

First, never overpromise on your amenities prior to move-in. I have a tendency to get "caught up in the moment" and do the same. Make sure your lease says something like this...

This Lease supersedes any and all previous agreements regarding tenancy at this address. This is a Lease between the above named Tenant(s) and the Landlord for the apartment dwelling described above. It (and any contemporaneously executed additional agreements) is the entire agreement between Tenant(s) and Landlord and may be modified only in writing.

...as well as a mutually signed, move-in inspection report. Basically, you are ensuring the tenant is taking the property "as-is."

Regarding the fence, right now is the worst time in recent history to replace a wooden fence. The pickets I buy to replace worn ones have nearly TRIPLED in price here. I am not paying $7 per picket, so I will wait until spring and then replace 2 years' worth. As @Patrick Hancock mentioned, it might be worth replacing the fence with a material that requires less maintenance, like PVC. Right now. the comparable price will probably be not much higher than the wood, and it won't degrade.

To @Bjorn Ahlblad 's point: there is a concern about liability if the dog got out, so that definitely needs to be part of your thought process as well.

As for the tenant, I would apologize profusely, letting them know you are happy to perform repairs on the existing fence as needed, but current rents do not support a capital outlay of $7k for a new one. If they are on a term lease (I only use MTM for this reason, among others), offer to release them without penalty.

You haven't given much context, but I worry that this could be a high-maintenance tenant and if you "give a mouse a cookie..." If I am wrong, then I stand corrected - but I always worry that if you spring for an entirely new fence at their request, it would set that expectation in the future that you have lots of money to spend at their request.

I think if it were me, I would see if I could drive some metal fence posts (the green ones people use around their gardens) and zip tie them to the failing wooden posts, and patch up holes with metal garden fence or something similar just to get through this tenancy so you can re-evaluate. I am sure you didn't calculate spending $7k to replace a fence in 9 months when you bought the property.

Good luck!

4 Reply

Nathan GesnerBusiness Member

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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes

5y

Well, you did tell the tenant the fence would be repaired, so they have an expectation of a fenced yard and you should keep to your word.

If you really don't want the expense of a new fence, just do what you can to maintain it for now. Terminate their lease when it's over, remove the fence, and rent it with an unfenced yard.

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4 Reply

Jonathan R McLaughlin

Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

5y

@Trevor Dominique it sounds like what she is most worried about is that she can’t let her dog run around with the new baby in the house and it will be much harder for her.

You might be able to address that fear by getting an electronic fence, the kind that trains the dog to not go beyond the flags.

That should be a lot cheaper and allow you to come up with a more gradual solution for the fence. And I agree with the others this is on you.

By addressing what is behind her complaint you may be in a better position.

2 Reply

Jeff S.

Specialist · Portland, OR · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes

5y

@Trevor Dominique write the check. If you spend 6k then get a 20% return which is $100 per month, or dog rent whatever is legal in your area. In the overall scheme of things 6k is a small amount.

Maybe you don't have 6k then drive 600 miles go to Home Depot and buy cedar boards and screw some cedar boards over the holes. Just did that myself. No dogs allowed in my place though. My lot is a triangle on a cul-de-sac and borders with 4 neighbors fences.

What is the rent on your dog friendly house? Investors in my area capitalize on dog friendly and it isn't cheap to own a dog and rent.

4 Reply

Account Closed

Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2020 · 562 posts · 554 votes

5y

@Trevor Dominique

Replace the fence.

Dog gets out and bites someone. Tenant says they have been begging you to fix it. You get sued.

Fence falls on any or all of the following: dog, tenant, neighbor, neighbors dog. You get sued.

Wind kicks up sending a piece of your dilapidated fence into the road causing an accident. You get sued.

Replacing a fence is pretty inexpensive when you consider what happens if you don’t. Plus it is a nice amenity for tenants in the future which will make the property more attractive and easier to rent.

2 Reply

Jay HinrichsBusiness Member

Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Jeff S.:

@Trevor Dominique write the check. If you spend 6k then get a 20% return which is $100 per month, or dog rent whatever is legal in your area. In the overall scheme of things 6k is a small amount.

Maybe you don't have 6k then drive 600 miles go to Home Depot and buy cedar boards and screw some cedar boards over the holes. Just did that myself. No dogs allowed in my place though. My lot is a triangle on a cul-de-sac and borders with 4 neighbors fences.

What is the rent on your dog friendly house? Investors in my area capitalize on dog friendly and it isn't cheap to own a dog and rent.

Cedar fencing is a NW thing.. they use pine in the deep south east.. and fences get destroyed quickly by the sun and moisture etc.

I would do chain link ( powder coated) or like Florida block and stucco. same with Vegas and so cal.. block and stucco last forever.

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

5y

Replace it, you're just throwing money away by patching it. The question is: long-term do you want a fence? If the answer is yes, then spend the money now and get a metal fence, chain link is of course see-through but you can put slats in it to make it private. A better look are metal panels, I used them on the last couple I built. Metal post every 8 ft and 2 panels per 8 ft. They can rust naturally and look great while providing privacy for a lower cost. Look up Corten.com

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1 Reply

Greg M.

Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes

5y

Originally posted by @Jonathan R McLaughlin:

You might be able to address that fear by getting an electronic fence, the kind that trains the dog to not go beyond the flags.

That may prevent her dog from getting off the property, but it won't prevent other dogs and animals from getting on the property and attacking/killing her dog. Not to mention that a fence will help prevent people from walking through the property.

2 Reply

Heidi M.

Rental Property Investor · Reno, NV · Member since 2013 · 77 posts · 31 votes

5y

@Trevor Dominique

Fix the fence. You could replace a section at a time as the fence deteriorates until lumber prices go down. I personally wouldn’t want that hassle and would just suck it up and replace the whole thing.

1 Reply

Aigo Pyles

Flipper/Rehabber · Memphis, TN · Member since 2020 · 758 posts · 285 votes

5y

Fix the fence. Try to fine a cheaper alternative.

1 Reply

Austin F.

Investor · MI · Member since 2015 · 227 posts · 478 votes

5y

Whats your cash flow? Does the fence add value?

I recently tore down a fence at one of my properties, sunk in new posts, then went to buy pickets and was blown away by the costs. Figured I would just put off replacement until next year when lumber prices fell.

Neighbor saw me packing up my tools and asked what the deal was. When I told her she wrote me a check for half the lumber on the spot.

1 Reply

Tom DegroodtPro Member

Evans, GA · Member since 2016 · 121 posts · 65 votes

5y

The quotes came back at $6,000. Remember you are running a business. Figure out if the fence will be depreciated, or can you write it off as a repair. If you can write it off as a repair 6K turns into only 4.2K after tax money money. In my area a pet fee is $300 and rent is $25 a month, so you would get $600 back first year. Privacy fence will likely add value to the asset. Make sure tenant understands that a big dog breaking the fence, chewing thru the fence or digging under the fence is not normal wear and tear.

1 Reply

Colleen F.Pro Member

Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes

5y

@Trevor Dominique Lease is up in October? You have a couple of options.

Replace the fence and put a significant increase in to help offset that cost on renewal. My guess with a new fence and a new baby she is not moving. Try to find lower cost materials (although alot of materials are up).

Don't replace , don't renew in October, and tear down the fence and make it a no pet property. Then you have turnover costs, showings, and finding a new tenant.

Continue to repair the fence until prices drop but it's gonna be a while.

To me the first two are probably the only realistic ones but I haven't seen the fence. It is all about your final goal Pet property or not? This is where I see the utility of adding pet rent.

1 Reply

Pat GoodyearPro Member

Syracuse, NY · Member since 2015 · 77 posts · 48 votes

5y

Unknowns are how competitive is the rent? If it is low, or you don't charge for her pets (you said dogS) - then I would be frank and let her know that you can add a pet fee to help cover it or she will have to leash her dog when she lets it out. Have you looked on craigslist? Alot of people sell fence panels all the time. Instead of calling ABC Fencing did you try a private contractor?

So other thoughts. Does she have renter's insurance with coverage for her pets if they bite someone? If not, you NEED that. Check with your landlord insurance to make sure they cover her breed. I find it hard to understand how in 9 months the fence could fall down that badly if you repaired it. Lastly, if you have a limited repair fund - save your money for a HVAC, roof, water heater, plumbing, etc true NECESSITIES. Not luxuries. I would tell her you did repair the fence when she moved it. If it isn't acceptable, there isn't budget to repair it at this time. Her lease allows her a dog (s) and she certainly can keep them; but will need to leash them. Offer to allow her to put up a wire and lead so she can let them out and still keep them safe.

1 Reply

Kimberly Carver

Member since 2020 · 119 posts · 56 votes

5y

@Trevor Dominique

I would replace with a vinyl fence

0 Reply

Trevor Dominique

OP

Investor · Maumee, OH · Member since 2017 · 43 posts · 30 votes

5y

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

After thinking it through, we are going to go ahead and replace the fence with a new wood privacy fence.

I dont agree with "waiting for lumber prices to go down". The materials cost for wood fencing right now is about $12/linear ft in my area, so the total materials cost for this 150 ft fence is about $1,800. Even if lumber prices go down 35%, that's only saving me about $600 which is pretty insignificant. The main cost here is the labor to install. Doing a new fence will add value to the property and my rough estimate is about $50/month in rent or $600/year. I ended up getting a wood replacement quote at $5300, so $600/$5300 would equate to a 11% ROI for me.

1 Reply

Landlords: What would you do?

Landlords: What would you do?

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