MTR-Mid Term Rentals class recommendations

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MTR-Mid Term Rentals class recommendations

Dennis Smith

Realtor · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 5 votes

Who teaches the best class on MTR-Mid Term Rentals?

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Ron Brady

Rental Property Investor · Burlington County, NJ · Member since 2019 · 540 posts · 771 votes

@Dennis Smith

We know of 4 major and consistent content-producers in this space:

Al Williamson - Offers a course, ongoing coaching, monthly group meetings, been a landlord a long time, we took his course in 2020 at a discounted rate--our view it was worth every penny; Based in Northern CA

Jesse Vasquez - Great YouTube content, unique takes, often wears his hat on backwards during his videos; Based in CA

Kellie Michelle - Great YouTube content, clear and concise, Based in smaller midwest city

Erin Spradin - Wrote a book, good YouTube content, Unsure where she is based

My sense is that Al has been at it the longest, but they all seem good to me, though we've only taken Al's course. If you're money-pressed, I'd recommend using all free YouTube content. If you're time-pressed and want to get all the nuances fast, we'd strongly recommend Al, based on our experience.

Best wishes to you.

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Luke CarlPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
4y
It’s really just a long term with furniture isn’t it?
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Michael BaumPro Member
Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
4y
Hey @Dennis Smith, there are a quite a few posts on BP here that have talked about mid term rentals.

@Luke Carl has it right. It isn't much different than STRs or LTRs with furniture.
You will need to work up a lease like you would for a LTR. You will need to provide everything for the guests like a STR.
Where are you thinking of doing it? What is the demographic you are trying to appeal to? What will bring them to your place?
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Dennis Smith
OP
Realtor · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 5 votes
4y
Hi @Michael Baum, I have watched several PB episodes about MTR, mostly for traveling nurses and insurance displacements and I am interested in learning more but I do not have time to watch everybodys videos on how to get started. I want a system to follow. I received good info from Josh Baldovino and Jesse Vasquez and I was wondering who else has a good course.
It would be good if I could find something that makes sense in San Diego County but I am willing to go almost anywhere if the deal is right. I already own rentals out of state. I have a 1031 exchange coming up soon that I can leverage into $900K+ for one or more properties.
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Michael BaumPro Member
Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
4y
I wish I could point to an all in one system that could help, but they don't exist as far as I know. Each demographic and region is different. It will require different strategies.
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Paul Sandhu
Investor · The worst town to live in, KS · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
4y
There is a lot more to a MTR than you think. The last time I did an insurance MTR it involved my work truck, an alternating current generator, 150 feet of extension cord, a sawzall, an appliance dolly, my 14 foot trailer, a house with fire damage and a $3000 Samsung French door fridge.
Don't expect to make any money without doing any work.
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Ron Brady
Rental Property Investor · Burlington County, NJ · Member since 2019 · 540 posts · 771 votes
4y

@Dennis Smith
We know of 4 major and consistent content-producers in this space:
Al Williamson - Offers a course, ongoing coaching, monthly group meetings, been a landlord a long time, we took his course in 2020 at a discounted rate--our view it was worth every penny; Based in Northern CA
Jesse Vasquez - Great YouTube content, unique takes, often wears his hat on backwards during his videos; Based in CA
Kellie Michelle - Great YouTube content, clear and concise, Based in smaller midwest city
Erin Spradin - Wrote a book, good YouTube content, Unsure where she is based
My sense is that Al has been at it the longest, but they all seem good to me, though we've only taken Al's course. If you're money-pressed, I'd recommend using all free YouTube content. If you're time-pressed and want to get all the nuances fast, we'd strongly recommend Al, based on our experience.
Best wishes to you.
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Brian Payne
Investor · Parker, CO · Member since 2013 · 47 posts · 28 votes
4y
I'm a jump right in with both feet type of guy but in my experience, it's not that hard. Get the unit, get it furnished, and put it on Furnished Finder. In my experience, 99% of the time you’re not jumping through the hoops as described below. Just work your tenant leads, find the best one, screen & lease them, and you're on your way.
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Dennis Smith
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Realtor · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 5 votes
4y
@Ron Brady Thanks a bunch! This is the type of answer I was looking for. I do not have the time to look at everybody's videos and I can afford to pay someone for their time, experience and knowledge so I can get started and not make the same learning mistakes they did.
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Dennis Smith
OP
Realtor · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 5 votes
4y
@Brian Payne Yes, Jump right in is a strategy that has worked for many, however, I want to create an experience for them so I get repeat & referral business. I understand that I am in the hospitality business with STR & MTR unlike my rental business with LTR.
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Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Luke Carl:

It’s really just a long term with furniture isn’t it?

Interesting take. I believe it does have many similarities with LTR fully furnished, but I think it is somewhat different. When leasing high rise condos I owned, the HOA required 12 month leases. No problem on a LTR but with a 90 days rental it could be a big problem - or eliminate MTR all together. Fortunately, we were able to creatively utilize a "work around". Another difference is the difference in marketing channels. With a LTR utilizing MLS is cost effective, you pay 1/2 to 1 months rent on a 12-24 month lease. On a 90 day rental even 1/2 month takes a huge percentage of gross income, so basically you need to eliminate use of brokers, MLS, etc. Then there's the difference in tenant attitude - I've had LTR tenants who treated the property as well as if they owned it - they planned on being there very long term. MTR tenants, well, not so much. Especially hard on the furnishings. Finally a LTR furnished is often furniture only, no furnishings, no dishes, no linens or towels, while a MTR would most often include the same furnishing as a STR.
I'd conclude that a MTR is a unique market itself, sufficiently different from convention LTR and from STR market to merit it's own category. Having leased my properties all three ways my experience has been that MTR are less labor, time and management intensive than STR but more labor, time and management intensive than LTR. They are potentially less profitable then STR, but often have more profit potential than STR. It is my believe that MTR can be more profitable than LTR in many places where STR can not. The easiest way to increase your bottom line with a residential rental property in any city of minimum size is rent it out fully furnished.
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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
4y
@Dennis Smith there are only two types of rentals: short-term and long-term. I suspect some YouTuber created this mid-term rental to show how clever they are.
When someone rents more than 30 days, they are a long-term renter. The same laws and procedures apply. Creating a new name doesn't change anything. And how does anyone know what you are talking about? Is MTR 3 months, six months, or nine months? Turns out it's all of them, just like a long-term renter.
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Dennis Smith
OP
Realtor · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 5 votes
4y
Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

@Dennis Smith there are only two types of rentals: short-term and long-term. I suspect some YouTuber created this mid-term rental to show how clever they are.
Hi Nathan, When I just searched "MTR" on BP, there are almost 3 pages of blog posts this year in BP about MTR and probably many more that mention mid or medium term rentals. There are at least 3 or 4 people who have courses on it so it is a real thing.
It is closer to STR that LTR because they are always furnished and can easily be converted to STR if you have a gap in bookings. Most bookings are 2 to 4 months so they are longer than STR and meet the criteria of 29+ days at a time so most HOA's & cities are OK with them.

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Dennis Smith
OP
Realtor · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 5 votes
4y
Quote from @Nathan G

@Dennis Smith there are only two types of rentals: short-term and long-term. I suspect some YouTuber created this mid-term rental to show how clever they are.

Hi Nathan, When I just searched "MTR" on BP, there are almost 3 pages of blog posts this year in BP about MTR and probably many more that mention mid or medium-term rentals. There are at least 3 or 4 people who have courses on it so it is a real thing.
MTR is closer to STR than LTR because they are always rented furnished and can easily be converted to STR if you have a gap in bookings. Most bookings are 2 to 4 months and less than 12 so they are longer than STR and meet the criteria of 29+ days at a time so most HOAs & cities are OK with them.
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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
4y
Exactly. The posts are from this year. The term didn't exist before because it is unnecessary. Traveling nurses and corporate renters existed decades ago. They fall under long-term rentals. We don't need another made-up name to confuse the masses.
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Ron Brady
Rental Property Investor · Burlington County, NJ · Member since 2019 · 540 posts · 771 votes
4y
@Dennis Smith
Glad it helps!
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Ron Brady
Rental Property Investor · Burlington County, NJ · Member since 2019 · 540 posts · 771 votes
4y

@Nathan Gesner Gonna push back on your assessment here. Your takes on property management on BP are some of the finest I've read--wise, clear, efficient, professional, timeless--and thus excellent guidance for investors at every stage.

On this issue however, I believe MTR is a long-standing, if unnamed, niche within LTR. However, both mobility and technology and the ability of more people to work where they do not live, has grown this niche, as @Dennis Smith has argued. A search for furnished LTR with terms of less than one year in any given market will yield precious few returns. That's because it isn't really considered in the marketplace as an LTR staple.

My take is that a few years from now, your assessment on this issue will be one you'd prefer to have back. Time will tell.

Best wishes.
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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
4y
You are probably right because modern society has a penchant for redefining words.
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Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
4y
IF we don't believe MTR are a marketing/investment/real estate strategy onto itself then we have to consider MTR as either part of LTR or part of STR.
If we consider them LTR (furnished) as has been suggested above, we a few problems with consistency. First, if LTR why are they offered on STR platforms like Airbnb and VRBO? I spend every summer in either New York or San Diego, and almost exclusively rent a property for 60-90 days through one of these two platforms. These rental rarely show up on MLS, Zillow, etc. So, if MTR are really LTR, then we have a large inconsistency with marketing channels.
Secondly, "normal" LTR residential property leases run 12,24 or 36 months. More rare is the landlord willing to do a 6 month lease. The majority of condo HOAs require a 12 month lease. These MTR leases - 30days - 90 days are NOT in the realm of LTR lease length, or even close to it. In fact, when you think about it, in terms of length of stay, they are closer to STR.
The one fact that the "MTR are really LTR" crowd seems to be hanging their hat on is that any stays of 30 days or more provides the tenant with normal "tenancy rights" in most jurisdictions. Admittedly no small thing. But this begets the argumentation that 30 day-90 day stays are part of STR, not that they are part of LTR.

Just curious as to what percentage of STR landlords advertising on Airbnb or VRBO would allow 30 or more day rentals on their property?
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Dennis Smith
OP
Realtor · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 5 votes
4y
Quote from @Don Konipol:

if LTR why are they offered on STR platforms like Airbnb and VRBO?
if MTR are really LTR, then we have a large inconsistency with marketing channels.
My response: There is another platform that is designed with MTR in mind. That is FurnishedFinder which bridges the gap of STR & LTR with maketing furnished rentals for any length of stay. Many in BP are aware of FF but I do not think that is the case with the general public. FF needs more marketing to be added in your list. If you go to BP on Youtube on your computer and type in "Midterm Rentals" you will find many videos on MTR including

Furnished Finder CEO: Mid-Term Rental Housing is BOOMING!

and 18 others that describe this strategy.

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Eduardo Tanamachi
Member since 2022 · 4 posts · 1 vote
3y
Quote from @Ron Brady:

@Dennis Smith
We know of 4 major and consistent content-producers in this space:
Al Williamson - Offers a course, ongoing coaching, monthly group meetings, been a landlord a long time, we took his course in 2020 at a discounted rate--our view it was worth every penny; Based in Northern CA
Jesse Vasquez - Great YouTube content, unique takes, often wears his hat on backwards during his videos; Based in CA
Kellie Michelle - Great YouTube content, clear and concise, Based in smaller midwest city
Erin Spradin - Wrote a book, good YouTube content, Unsure where she is based
My sense is that Al has been at it the longest, but they all seem good to me, though we've only taken Al's course. If you're money-pressed, I'd recommend using all free YouTube content. If you're time-pressed and want to get all the nuances fast, we'd strongly recommend Al, based on our experience.
Best wishes to you.
Hi! Can I please get more info on the Al Williamson class please? TIA
0 Reply
Ron Brady
Rental Property Investor · Burlington County, NJ · Member since 2019 · 540 posts · 771 votes
3y
Quote from @Eduardo Tanamachi:

Quote from @Ron Brady:

@Dennis Smith
We know of 4 major and consistent content-producers in this space:
Al Williamson - Offers a course, ongoing coaching, monthly group meetings, been a landlord a long time, we took his course in 2020 at a discounted rate--our view it was worth every penny; Based in Northern CA
Jesse Vasquez - Great YouTube content, unique takes, often wears his hat on backwards during his videos; Based in CA
Kellie Michelle - Great YouTube content, clear and concise, Based in smaller midwest city
Erin Spradin - Wrote a book, good YouTube content, Unsure where she is based
My sense is that Al has been at it the longest, but they all seem good to me, though we've only taken Al's course. If you're money-pressed, I'd recommend using all free YouTube content. If you're time-pressed and want to get all the nuances fast, we'd strongly recommend Al, based on our experience.
Best wishes to you.
Hi! Can I please get more info on the Al Williamson class please? TIA

@Al Williamson, Eduardo here is interested in learning more about your coaching course.
0 Reply
Al Williamson
Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
3y
@Ron Brady
@Eduardo Tanamachi
I don’t think I can drop my link here, but the coaching program is called: Extended Stays for Landlords.
Feel free to DM me.
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Kayce Tackett
Rental Property Investor · Irmo, SC · Member since 2018 · 40 posts · 18 votes
3y
Quote from @Don Konipol

"Interesting take. I believe it does have many similarities with LTR fully furnished, but I think it is somewhat different. When leasing high rise condos I owned, the HOA required 12 month leases. No problem on a LTR but with a 90 days rental it could be a big problem - or eliminate MTR all together. Fortunately, we were able to creatively utilize a "work around".

@Don Konipol, I have the same issue with what could be a perfect rental for members of the military. We have a huge house we purchased at a nice discount. The neighborhood has an HOA. What workaround did you utilize if you don't mind sharing?

0 Reply
Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
3y
Quote from @Kayce Tackett:

Quote from @Don Konipol

"Interesting take. I believe it does have many similarities with LTR fully furnished, but I think it is somewhat different. When leasing high rise condos I owned, the HOA required 12 month leases. No problem on a LTR but with a 90 days rental it could be a big problem - or eliminate MTR all together. Fortunately, we were able to creatively utilize a "work around".

@Don Konipol, I have the same issue with what could be a perfect rental for members of the military. We have a huge house we purchased at a nice discount. The neighborhood has an HOA. What workaround did you utilize if you don't mind sharing?

Standard term lease for minimum required by HOA (usually 6 or 12 months) with a separate agreement that lease can be determined by tenant after certain amount of time.
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Pooja More
Rental Property Investor · NEWARK, CA · Member since 2016 · 10 posts · 1 vote
2y
@Ron Brady: Thank you for such a concise response. @Dennis Smith : Did you end up using AL's or any other mid term rental course ?

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