Municipalities usings third parties to find illegally booked STR?

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Municipalities usings third parties to find illegally booked STR?

Frank Borzen
Member since 2020 · 61 posts · 39 votes

The municipality where our STR is located us sent us a code violation for renting less than the allowed 7 continuous nights. The dates were between 8 and 12 months ago. We explained to the code officer that the dates were blocked out for personal use. The code officer said they "have software that allows us to see past dates and distinguish between rentals and personal use."

Is anyone aware of vrbo or airbnb providing personal data to municipalities? Or third party companies that do? On our calendar you cannot go back to look at previous dates, only forward. We are confused and concerned as to how they saw these blocked out dates. They are saying the only way out of possible fines and violations is to provide financial data for the time period. We have been renting this home out for 25 years and have never had this issue.

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John UnderwoodPro Member
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
11mo

I can't see how they can tell if days were blocked for personal use or a rental. I seriously doubt the OTAs are sharing this without a court order.

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  • Patricia Andriolo-Bull
    Member since 2022 · 529 posts · 413 votes
    11mo

    Did you actually rent for less than 7 nights? If not, should be easy enough to show them. Or are you concerned that there is actually a mechanism to check? We have a 7 night minimum and it impacts Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac lenders when people rent less than 7 nights (they think of it as a condotel and consider it a different loan). They use Airbnb to look up the nightly minimums but it’s always forward looking. 

    1Reply
  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    11mo

    I can't see how they can tell if days were blocked for personal use or a rental. I seriously doubt the OTAs are sharing this without a court order.

    5Reply
    • Frank Borzen
      OP
      Member since 2020 · 61 posts · 39 votes
      11mo
      Quote from @John Underwood:

      I can't see how they can tell if days were blocked for personal use or a rental. I seriously doubt the OTAs are sharing this without a court order.


      We are pulling the public records but I found something called City Portal on airbnb. It appears this is something they would use, and it appears as though airbnb provides information on specific dates and specific homes. If so, that is wild.
      0Reply
    • Patricia Andriolo-Bull
      Member since 2022 · 529 posts · 413 votes
      11mo
      Quote from @John Underwood:

      I can't see how they can tell if days were blocked for personal use or a rental. I seriously doubt the OTAs are sharing this without a court order.

      I agree that if the dates are blocked either through calendar sync or the OP blocking the dates but if the OP actually rented for 7, which I can’t tell by the way the post was written, it appears that they might share that data.   So OP, if you actually took bookings for less than 7 days through Airbnb you may be SOL, if you didn’t, I imagine you can show them that they were just blocks that weren’t rented. 
      1Reply
    • Jon Martin
      Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
      11mo
      Quote from @John Underwood:

      I can't see how they can tell if days were blocked for personal use or a rental. I seriously doubt the OTAs are sharing this without a court order.


      AIRDNA claims that they can discern between blocked dates and bookings. 

      That said, I would guess that the city is bluffing. 

      0Reply
    • Jules Aton
      MD/DC · Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Jon Martin:
      Quote from @John Underwood:

      I can't see how they can tell if days were blocked for personal use or a rental. I seriously doubt the OTAs are sharing this without a court order.


      AIRDNA claims that they can discern between blocked dates and bookings. 

      That said, I would guess that the city is bluffing. 


       Ugh, seems like everything is surveilled now. I'm not sure this makes sense. How does AIRDNA know if I directed rented to someone off one of the sites? 

      1Reply
    • Jon Martin
      Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Jules Aton:
      Quote from @Jon Martin:
      Quote from @John Underwood:

      I can't see how they can tell if days were blocked for personal use or a rental. I seriously doubt the OTAs are sharing this without a court order.


      AIRDNA claims that they can discern between blocked dates and bookings. 

      That said, I would guess that the city is bluffing. 


       Ugh, seems like everything is surveilled now. I'm not sure this makes sense. How does AIRDNA know if I directed rented to someone off one of the sites? 

      No idea, and I imagine they don’t share their methods. My guess is when you have servers tracking millions of listings there are probably patterns that emerge that are outside of typical booking behavior. 

      1Reply
  • Andrew Street
    Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 292 votes
    11mo

    If you’ve been operating for 25 years without any issues, there’s really nothing to worry about—regardless of whatever software they claim to use. Whether or not they can actually track personal use versus rentals is doubtful. Providing a brief written explanation and any proof of personal use should be more than enough to clear things up.

    1Reply
  • Bill B.
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    11mo

    Why isn’t your question “Who is sharing false data with the city?” If you used it personally and someone is lying to the city saying you rented it and you are facing a fine you should be able to sue them. 

    Hopefully it's an out of town STR and you can show airline tickets or gasoline purchased in town. If it's in town show them a bank statement and corresponding deposits matched up with rental dates?

    But you should have a good lawsuit against the providers of false information and save others from facing false claims. 

    1Reply
    • Frank Borzen
      OP
      Member since 2020 · 61 posts · 39 votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Bill B.:

      Why isn’t your question “Who is sharing false data with the city?” If you used it personally and someone is lying to the city saying you rented it and you are facing a fine you should be able to sue them. 

      Hopefully it's an out of town STR and you can show airline tickets or gasoline purchased in town. If it's in town show them a bank statement and corresponding deposits matched up with rental dates?

      But you should have a good lawsuit against the providers of false information and save others from facing false claims. 


      It's a local STR and we are in and out all the time. The city is saying the onus is on us to prove it was not rented. They say they have info proving it was. We will pull the public record, but it's insane to me that airbnb may provide specific info about specific rentals to cities. This does not appear to stem from any neighbor complaints or issues.
      0Reply
  • Collin HaysBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11mo

    VRBO and Airbnb are not sharing data with the STR police. But it's pretty easy for a municipality to look at your calendar online and figure out what is going on.

    [email protected]806-672-7102
    SMOKY MOUNTAIN FALLS INC.51 Review
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
    • Frank Borzen
      OP
      Member since 2020 · 61 posts · 39 votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Collin Hays:

      VRBO and Airbnb are not sharing data with the STR police. But it's pretty easy for a municipality to look at your calendar online and figure out what is going on.


      Hi Collin, please check out City Portal on airbnb. It seems like they may be sharing info.

      The info in this instance was from 8-11 months ago. In my experience nobody searching can look backward, only forward.
      1Reply
    • Collin HaysBusiness Member
      Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Frank Borzen:
      Quote from @Collin Hays:

      VRBO and Airbnb are not sharing data with the STR police. But it's pretty easy for a municipality to look at your calendar online and figure out what is going on.


      Hi Collin, please check out City Portal on airbnb. It seems like they may be sharing info.

      The info in this instance was from 8-11 months ago. In my experience nobody searching can look backward, only forward.

       Of course, but my point is, anyone can check a calendar online at any time.  I DO believe that taxing authorities are entitled to a look-in as it pertains to nights rented, revenue, and potential taxes due.  Perhaps we are talking about the same thing.  

      [email protected]806-672-7102
      SMOKY MOUNTAIN FALLS INC.51 Review
      WebsiteView Page
      0Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    11mo

    This is the USA , you dont have to prove you are innocent . The Gov has to prove you are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt .  Make a formal request for their evidence and how they got it . 

    4Reply
  • Jules Aton
    MD/DC · Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11mo

    Wow

    “Improved compliance capabilities to help local governments enforce their short-term rental laws. In jurisdictions with applicable short-term rental laws, government officials can use the City Portal to search for listings in their registration system and take action on listings they determine violate local regulations.”

    From:

    https://news.airbnb.com/new-city-portal-features-to-help-gov...

      0Reply
      • Frank Borzen
        OP
        Member since 2020 · 61 posts · 39 votes
        11mo
        Quote from @Jules Aton:

        Wow

        “Improved compliance capabilities to help local governments enforce their short-term rental laws. In jurisdictions with applicable short-term rental laws, government officials can use the City Portal to search for listings in their registration system and take action on listings they determine violate local regulations.”

        From:

        https://news.airbnb.com/new-city-portal-features-to-help-gov...


          Yep. Will be interesting to see what public record shows.
          0Reply
        • John Clark
          Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
          11mo
          Quote from @Frank Borzen:
          Quote from @Jules Aton:

          Wow

          “Improved compliance capabilities to help local governments enforce their short-term rental laws. In jurisdictions with applicable short-term rental laws, government officials can use the City Portal to search for listings in their registration system and take action on listings they determine violate local regulations.”

          From:

          https://news.airbnb.com/new-city-portal-features-to-help-gov...


            Yep. Will be interesting to see what public record shows.

             Of course, there's the small matter of you not saying whether you did, in fact, rent out during the time in question, or not. If the town ordinance required 7 days, were you cutting corners? Your airbnb account activity will provide a definitive answer.

            1Reply
        • Mike GrudzienPro Member
          Lender · Eugene, OR · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
          11mo
          Quote from @Frank Borzen:

          The municipality where our STR is located us sent us a code violation for renting less than the allowed 7 continuous nights. The dates were between 8 and 12 months ago. We explained to the code officer that the dates were blocked out for personal use. The code officer said they "have software that allows us to see past dates and distinguish between rentals and personal use."

          Is anyone aware of vrbo or airbnb providing personal data to municipalities? Or third party companies that do? On our calendar you cannot go back to look at previous dates, only forward. We are confused and concerned as to how they saw these blocked out dates. They are saying the only way out of possible fines and violations is to provide financial data for the time period. We have been renting this home out for 25 years and have never had this issue.


           All I can say is: OUCH!

          0Reply
        • Andrew SteffensBusiness Member
          Tampa, FL · Member since 2022 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
          11mo

          Yes - there is a software called Granicus.  Look it up - software (and I imagine AI) scanning/scraping data to check for compliance.

          [email protected]813-563-0877
          Vacation Rentals of Florida53 Reviews
          WebsiteView Page
          1Reply
        • John Clark
          Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
          11mo

          Give it up folks. I challenged the original poster ("Frank Borzen") 4 days ago and he ghosted the thread in response. To me, that says that -- no evidence to the contrary -- he rented out in violation of the town ordinance and (my take) now wants to whine that he got caught.

          AirBnB and other short term rentals (STR) need to be regulated because they impose externalities on neighbors and deprive local governments of revenue and -- depending on circumstances -- pose unfair competition on local hostelries. Hence the need for tracking and enforcement. Not unreasonable. No doubt he thought that he would tap into some vein of anti-government indignation.

          Didn't work.

          0Reply
          • Frank Borzen
            OP
            Member since 2020 · 61 posts · 39 votes
            11mo
            Quote from @John Clark:

            Give it up folks. I challenged the original poster ("Frank Borzen") 4 days ago and he ghosted the thread in response. To me, that says that -- no evidence to the contrary -- he rented out in violation of the town ordinance and (my take) now wants to whine that he got caught.

            AirBnB and other short term rentals (STR) need to be regulated because they impose externalities on neighbors and deprive local governments of revenue and -- depending on circumstances -- pose unfair competition on local hostelries. Hence the need for tracking and enforcement. Not unreasonable. No doubt he thought that he would tap into some vein of anti-government indignation.

            Didn't work.

            Your "challenge" was clearly explained in the third sentence of the original quote. Thanks for the follow up. I will tell you that you won the internet battle so you can sleep better tonight. Congratulations.

            As an update, we have confirmation in writing from airbnb that the home was not rented for less than the allowed time. The city says they use rentalscape to monitor bookings. It is a bit concerning they are going back 9-12 months looking for info.
            1Reply
        • Kenneth GarrettPro Member
          Investor · Florida Panhandle/Illinois · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
          11mo

          @Frank Borzen

          I work as a consultant for many municipalities. I am not aware of any software that can distinguish from blocked dates v booked dates.

          They certainly can run a query about STR's in their jurisdiction and start to dig down. Whether it was blocked for repairs or family use there is no way other than if the jurisdiction required specific information when you pay city, county or state tax and cross check it. It would time to analyze it. They then could use a program to cross reference that information and then analyze it. Seems pretty extreme. More likely someone complained.

          You can always submit a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act) request and ask for all of the information. They are required to provide the information except for some rare exceptions.

          0Reply
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