Report from the Smokies: BUY LOCATION!
Collin HaysBusiness Member
Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votesReport from the Smokies: BUY LOCATION!
Most Popular Reply
John UnderwoodPro Member
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votesQuote from @Collin Hays:
This is a true tale of two investors, both of whom bought in the fall of 2024 and hired our firm to manage their properties.
Cabin 1. The first property is a tiny, 1 bedroom 1.5 bath log home in the Black Bear Falls resort in Gatlinburg. Only 900 square feet. But it does have a spectacular view and a lot of cool resort amenities - pool, clubhouse, fishing pond, etc. Sales price: $488,000. About $542 per square foot.
Cabin 2. This property is a roomy, 1800-ish square foot cabin in the woods in Wears Valley. Nice game room, updated kitchen, log beds, hot tub. Sale price $475,000. About $263 per square foot.
Which was the better buy? Cabin 1 did $51,000 in 2025. Cabin 2 did about $34,000 in 2025. The owners of Cabin 2 are unhappy with how it is renting and are putting it on the market. The owners of Cabin 1 are delighted.
Probably 90 percent of Smokies properties are "cabins in the woods." And they are going to perform like 90 percent of Smokies properties - average. If you are going to spend your hard-earned money to invest in a vacation rental, find a 10 percent cabin. It will cost you a lot more per square foot, but your bank account will be far happier in the end.
How much is the HOA on cabin 1?
Are these Net or Gross numbers your showing?
15 Replies
- 8moJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
Quote from @Collin Hays:
This is a true tale of two investors, both of whom bought in the fall of 2024 and hired our firm to manage their properties.
Cabin 1. The first property is a tiny, 1 bedroom 1.5 bath log home in the Black Bear Falls resort in Gatlinburg. Only 900 square feet. But it does have a spectacular view and a lot of cool resort amenities - pool, clubhouse, fishing pond, etc. Sales price: $488,000. About $542 per square foot.
Cabin 2. This property is a roomy, 1800-ish square foot cabin in the woods in Wears Valley. Nice game room, updated kitchen, log beds, hot tub. Sale price $475,000. About $263 per square foot.
Which was the better buy? Cabin 1 did $51,000 in 2025. Cabin 2 did about $34,000 in 2025. The owners of Cabin 2 are unhappy with how it is renting and are putting it on the market. The owners of Cabin 1 are delighted.
Probably 90 percent of Smokies properties are "cabins in the woods." And they are going to perform like 90 percent of Smokies properties - average. If you are going to spend your hard-earned money to invest in a vacation rental, find a 10 percent cabin. It will cost you a lot more per square foot, but your bank account will be far happier in the end.
How much is the HOA on cabin 1?
Are these Net or Gross numbers your showing?
- Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes8moRents only. Nothing added.
Quote from @John Underwood:
Quote from @Collin Hays:
This is a true tale of two investors, both of whom bought in the fall of 2024 and hired our firm to manage their properties.
Cabin 1. The first property is a tiny, 1 bedroom 1.5 bath log home in the Black Bear Falls resort in Gatlinburg. Only 900 square feet. But it does have a spectacular view and a lot of cool resort amenities - pool, clubhouse, fishing pond, etc. Sales price: $488,000. About $542 per square foot.
Cabin 2. This property is a roomy, 1800-ish square foot cabin in the woods in Wears Valley. Nice game room, updated kitchen, log beds, hot tub. Sale price $475,000. About $263 per square foot.
Which was the better buy? Cabin 1 did $51,000 in 2025. Cabin 2 did about $34,000 in 2025. The owners of Cabin 2 are unhappy with how it is renting and are putting it on the market. The owners of Cabin 1 are delighted.
Probably 90 percent of Smokies properties are "cabins in the woods." And they are going to perform like 90 percent of Smokies properties - average. If you are going to spend your hard-earned money to invest in a vacation rental, find a 10 percent cabin. It will cost you a lot more per square foot, but your bank account will be far happier in the end.
How much is the HOA on cabin 1?
Are these Net or Gross numbers your showing?
The HOA is $1400 a year but includes water, cable, and Wi-Fi. - 8moJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
Quote from @Collin Hays:
Rents only. Nothing added.Quote from @John Underwood:
Quote from @Collin Hays:
This is a true tale of two investors, both of whom bought in the fall of 2024 and hired our firm to manage their properties.
Cabin 1. The first property is a tiny, 1 bedroom 1.5 bath log home in the Black Bear Falls resort in Gatlinburg. Only 900 square feet. But it does have a spectacular view and a lot of cool resort amenities - pool, clubhouse, fishing pond, etc. Sales price: $488,000. About $542 per square foot.
Cabin 2. This property is a roomy, 1800-ish square foot cabin in the woods in Wears Valley. Nice game room, updated kitchen, log beds, hot tub. Sale price $475,000. About $263 per square foot.
Which was the better buy? Cabin 1 did $51,000 in 2025. Cabin 2 did about $34,000 in 2025. The owners of Cabin 2 are unhappy with how it is renting and are putting it on the market. The owners of Cabin 1 are delighted.
Probably 90 percent of Smokies properties are "cabins in the woods." And they are going to perform like 90 percent of Smokies properties - average. If you are going to spend your hard-earned money to invest in a vacation rental, find a 10 percent cabin. It will cost you a lot more per square foot, but your bank account will be far happier in the end.
How much is the HOA on cabin 1?
Are these Net or Gross numbers your showing?
The HOA is $1400 a year but includes water, cable, and Wi-Fi.So these are Gross rental income?
- Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes8moYes, total rents only. No taxes, cleaning fees included.
Quote from @John Underwood:
Quote from @Collin Hays:
Rents only. Nothing added.Quote from @John Underwood:
Quote from @Collin Hays:
This is a true tale of two investors, both of whom bought in the fall of 2024 and hired our firm to manage their properties.
Cabin 1. The first property is a tiny, 1 bedroom 1.5 bath log home in the Black Bear Falls resort in Gatlinburg. Only 900 square feet. But it does have a spectacular view and a lot of cool resort amenities - pool, clubhouse, fishing pond, etc. Sales price: $488,000. About $542 per square foot.
Cabin 2. This property is a roomy, 1800-ish square foot cabin in the woods in Wears Valley. Nice game room, updated kitchen, log beds, hot tub. Sale price $475,000. About $263 per square foot.
Which was the better buy? Cabin 1 did $51,000 in 2025. Cabin 2 did about $34,000 in 2025. The owners of Cabin 2 are unhappy with how it is renting and are putting it on the market. The owners of Cabin 1 are delighted.
Probably 90 percent of Smokies properties are "cabins in the woods." And they are going to perform like 90 percent of Smokies properties - average. If you are going to spend your hard-earned money to invest in a vacation rental, find a 10 percent cabin. It will cost you a lot more per square foot, but your bank account will be far happier in the end.
How much is the HOA on cabin 1?
Are these Net or Gross numbers your showing?
The HOA is $1400 a year but includes water, cable, and Wi-Fi.So these are Gross rental income?
- Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes8mo
I was going to ask the same question. When you said pool, clubhouse, in a resort. I was expecting $400+/mo and wouldn't have been surprised if you said $800. HOA's fees can destroy your return in certain communities.
I’m betting/hoping their insurance is much cheaper and their fire risk significantly lower. It’s also a bonus being in a resort they aren’t forced to use the resorts management company.
- MD/DC · Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8mo
Novices tend to underestimate the importance of location. Number 2 sounds preferable if owners wanted to enjoy vacation benefits in which case they have to accept they bought with personal preferences in mind that will reduce the potential rental income.
- Interior Decorator · Member since 2025 · 82 posts · 42 votes8mo
Location, management, how clean it is and design = increased ROI.
- 8moAndrew SteffensBusiness MemberTampa, FL · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Probably still breakeven at best on cabin 1, which can be a great thing depending on your expectations. Cabin 2 is obviously a poor performer. When supply exceeds demand the first ones to go are the poorly located and/or the poorly outfitted. These exact same principles (fundamentals really) are applicable in my market too, and probably most if not all markets. A 4/2 1500 sqft pool home close to the beach in Largo FL priced at $600k will outperform a 6/4 4500 sqft pool home in Ruskin, FL.
Vacation Rentals of Florida53 Reviews- Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes8moThe profile of the typical Smokies investor has changed significantly over the last two years. In 2020-2023, investors were looking for monthly profit. Today, they are looking for tax benefits, long term appreciation, and “the income can help pay for it.”
Quote from @Andrew Steffens:
Probably still breakeven at best on cabin 1, which can be a great thing depending on your expectations. Cabin 2 is obviously a poor performer. When supply exceeds demand the first ones to go are the poorly located and/or the poorly outfitted. These exact same principles (fundamentals really) are applicable in my market too, and probably most if not all markets. A 4/2 1500 sqft pool home close to the beach in Largo FL priced at $600k will outperform a 6/4 4500 sqft pool home in Ruskin, FL.
I will be writing more about this phenomenon soon. - 8moAndrew SteffensBusiness MemberTampa, FL · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Quote from @Collin Hays:
The profile of the typical Smokies investor has changed significantly over the last two years. In 2020-2023, investors were looking for monthly profit. Today, they are looking for tax benefits, long term appreciation, and “the income can help pay for it.”Quote from @Andrew Steffens:
Probably still breakeven at best on cabin 1, which can be a great thing depending on your expectations. Cabin 2 is obviously a poor performer. When supply exceeds demand the first ones to go are the poorly located and/or the poorly outfitted. These exact same principles (fundamentals really) are applicable in my market too, and probably most if not all markets. A 4/2 1500 sqft pool home close to the beach in Largo FL priced at $600k will outperform a 6/4 4500 sqft pool home in Ruskin, FL.
I will be writing more about this phenomenon soon.Yes, I see it too - its much better as a PM handling people with proper expectations and goals!
Vacation Rentals of Florida53 Reviews - Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes8mo
Quote from @Andrew Steffens:
Quote from @Collin Hays:
The profile of the typical Smokies investor has changed significantly over the last two years. In 2020-2023, investors were looking for monthly profit. Today, they are looking for tax benefits, long term appreciation, and “the income can help pay for it.”Quote from @Andrew Steffens:
Probably still breakeven at best on cabin 1, which can be a great thing depending on your expectations. Cabin 2 is obviously a poor performer. When supply exceeds demand the first ones to go are the poorly located and/or the poorly outfitted. These exact same principles (fundamentals really) are applicable in my market too, and probably most if not all markets. A 4/2 1500 sqft pool home close to the beach in Largo FL priced at $600k will outperform a 6/4 4500 sqft pool home in Ruskin, FL.
I will be writing more about this phenomenon soon.Yes, I see it too - its much better as a PM handling people with proper expectations and goals!
At least in resort areas, "making money every month" has never been any sort of realistic goal, but for the 3-year bubble of 2020-2023. That is not traditionally why investors buy vacation homes. Call a realtor in Vail or Aspen and ask them "which property can I buy to start making money?" and they will laugh at you out loud.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes8mo
Quote from @Collin Hays:
The profile of the typical Smokies investor has changed significantly over the last two years. In 2020-2023, investors were looking for monthly profit. Today, they are looking for tax benefits, long term appreciation, and “the income can help pay for it.”Quote from @Andrew Steffens:
Probably still breakeven at best on cabin 1, which can be a great thing depending on your expectations. Cabin 2 is obviously a poor performer. When supply exceeds demand the first ones to go are the poorly located and/or the poorly outfitted. These exact same principles (fundamentals really) are applicable in my market too, and probably most if not all markets. A 4/2 1500 sqft pool home close to the beach in Largo FL priced at $600k will outperform a 6/4 4500 sqft pool home in Ruskin, FL.
I will be writing more about this phenomenon soon.Yeah. It's an inflation adjusting high yield savings account that has tax benefits.
- Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes8mo
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Collin Hays:
The profile of the typical Smokies investor has changed significantly over the last two years. In 2020-2023, investors were looking for monthly profit. Today, they are looking for tax benefits, long term appreciation, and “the income can help pay for it.”Quote from @Andrew Steffens:
Probably still breakeven at best on cabin 1, which can be a great thing depending on your expectations. Cabin 2 is obviously a poor performer. When supply exceeds demand the first ones to go are the poorly located and/or the poorly outfitted. These exact same principles (fundamentals really) are applicable in my market too, and probably most if not all markets. A 4/2 1500 sqft pool home close to the beach in Largo FL priced at $600k will outperform a 6/4 4500 sqft pool home in Ruskin, FL.
I will be writing more about this phenomenon soon.Yeah. It's an inflation adjusting high yield savings account that has tax benefits.
Bingo
- MD/DC · Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8mo
Quote from @James Hamling:
Quote from @Collin Hays:
The profile of the typical Smokies investor has changed significantly over the last two years. In 2020-2023, investors were looking for monthly profit. Today, they are looking for tax benefits, long term appreciation, and “the income can help pay for it.”Quote from @Andrew Steffens:
Probably still breakeven at best on cabin 1, which can be a great thing depending on your expectations. Cabin 2 is obviously a poor performer. When supply exceeds demand the first ones to go are the poorly located and/or the poorly outfitted. These exact same principles (fundamentals really) are applicable in my market too, and probably most if not all markets. A 4/2 1500 sqft pool home close to the beach in Largo FL priced at $600k will outperform a 6/4 4500 sqft pool home in Ruskin, FL.
I will be writing more about this phenomenon soon.Yeah. It's an inflation adjusting high yield savings account that has tax benefits.
^^This exactly and with quality of life perks if using as a vacation getaway.
- MD/DC · Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes8mo
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