vacation rentals

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Real Estate Agent · Emerald Coast, FL · Member since 2016 · 820 posts · 486 votes
10y

I posted this on another thread, but it's applicable here, so I'm reposting.

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I have been renting out my vacation home in Panama City, FL (not on the beach but 3 blocks from a cool marina in town) for about 15 months and have figured everything out as I went. I made $15K my first year in gross income, renting it out only 11 months of the year, using it myself for 20 nights, and letting friends and family stay for just the cleaning fee about another 25 nights. My expenses, including ALL utilities, taxes, insurance, etc. are about $1,000 a month, so I'm more than covering my note even renting it (effectively) about 9 months a year. I only list it on Airbnb (where I get about 85% of my business) and VRBO/HomeAway and have been happy with both.

I'm so thrilled with my success, that in about 3 months, I'm moving to the town where my rental is (from Houston to FL), buying a primary residence there (already under contract), and buying more rental property to build my portfolio since I can afford to do it in FL but not in TX. I have found it relatively easy to manage, and I do about 80% of the management work myself, remotely. (I do have friends and family in the area who can check on things for me if I need it and a GREAT housekeeper, which is KEY.)

HomeAway has a great conference each year in several cities, and I highly recommend attending to network with other owners and get the scoop on tools to make it easy for you.

Happy to talk more about it if you'd like.

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  • Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2015 · 58 posts · 6 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Timothy Daniels:

    Hi Jeff,

    There are a lot of good responses here, so I'll see if I can add any additional insight.

    My wife and I live on an island in WA state and own 12 VR units, plus residential and commercial units as well. So I feel like we know a little bit about the industry. 

    The first thing I'd caution is that VR is not the magic bullet many believe it to be. It's more a question of function.  Are you looking for a way to pay for a personal vacation home or are you looking for income generation?

    Consider: VR income is federally taxed as ordinary income, including payment of self-employment tax.  Our municipality adds lodging tax on top of state sales tax. Plus annual business licenses and inspection fees...All these are additional expenses.

    Then, you must furnish (re-furnish as well), pay for all utilities, TV, and internet.  Management fees (which you should calculate regardless of whether you self-manage it or not) of typical 35% vs. 10%, 3% to airbnb or some credit card processor and possibly the time and expense of a website.

    Have I scared you off yet? Where I live, all my VR income must occur between mid-May and the end of Sept. which means you float it for the vacant months (I put in a month to month winter tenant if I can get one).

    Nevertheless,  I own 12 of them so I must think it works! And it does, but zoning limits my competition and I am in a tourist destination (p.s. Marriott has not quit!).   Plus I was able to buy at such a bargain that the numbers were favorable.

    If your goal is purely income-generation, or you're located in a convention city or a place where people vacation year-round, the numbers quite often favor residential rental.  It doesn't mean you don't want to own a get-away that pays for itself. Just be honest with yourself about your goals and desires and make it as owner-friendly (and inexpensive) as possible

     Thanks for your perspective. I appreciate it.

  • Investor · Sevierville, TN · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 8 votes
    10y

    @Jeff R.

    My wife and I currently own 2 properties that are used as vacation rentals. In our case they have been an outstanding investment earning between 20%-50% cash on cash ROI. The main key to success is to be very active with the rentals. It goes without saying that you need to own in an area with a demand for vacation rentals.

    As an owner & manager you need to be prepared to put in the effort to attain bookings and more importantly, serve as a great hosts once you receive these bookings.  The Vacation Rental world is drastically changing everyday and competition is becoming fierce.  Reliance on listing sites is easy to have and if your seriously considering venturing into this business, I recommend that you factor in the costs to build your own website (or have it built), along with a good marketing campaign for the site and property to be found in the vast and aggressive world of Google.  With your own site, blogging is a must as it serves as a serious driver for traffic to your site.  

    With all of this said, you can see that it takes a lot of time invested to have a great rental.  If you can't put this time in then you need to seek out a a manager who can consistently book your property without insane fees.  Typical fees in our location for a management company to take over start at 40% of the properties gross rent.    If you decide to go this route, ensure this is calculated into your investment figures.

  • Rental Property Investor · Friday Harbor, WA · Member since 2015 · 66 posts · 30 votes
    10y

    @Kendall Luelf

    I'm not one to argue with another person's investment strategy,  but one must compare apples to apples--cash on cash return is great, but somewhat misleading unless one makes all their calculations that way--in which case 20-50% is fair at best (our most recent is near infinite given nothing but a small amount of earnest money down). Typically we are around 100% cash on cash.

    Nevertheless, calculating value (cap rate or ROI) must include management fees even if you do your own management and pocket the cash because an out-of-town investor must still have that work done (or, God forbid, you should become incapacitated). Lenders will absolutely consider that expense.

    Your message indicates a significant amount of labor.  That part is not investment,  it's employment--complete with pay at a rate if 40% (?) of gross rents. The question I would pose is, "Would you rather own 4 passive rental units or 2 active rental units if the net return was the same?"

    Don't get me wrong--I am a fan of VR property. I own 12 of them.  Just make sure your goals are clear (vacation place for me? Income generation?) and that your calculations are thorough and honest. 

  • Cornelius, NC · Member since 2016 · 104 posts · 51 votes
    10y

    This is an interesting thread.  Condos make sense at the beach, but not in the Smoky Mtns.  I'm glad to hear the good reports about Panama City, since I like the gulf.  Beachfront is appealing, but much more expensive, and I'd be concerned about the threat of storms & also rising oceans with global warming.  I've read that getting insurance  may become an issue on the coast, so that is something to consider too.

    Vacation rentals on lakes is something that I'm looking into.  It's not "The Beach", but is a convenient alternative to many folks in CLT & ATL , offers boating & skiing and, avoids the tourist traps & sharks.   Since it's driving distance to the city the renter can still make a business meeting in the morning while the kids are still sleeping & be back on vacation before lunch.  Maintenance is also much more affordable that on the coast.

    I'm a newbie, so am looking forward to hearing all the ways I'm wrong.  :) 

  • Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2015 · 58 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    @Timothy Daniels

    Do you feel from a pure cash flow perspective that normal long term rentals are better?

    When would you pick a vacation rental over a long term rental?

  • Investor · Sevierville, TN · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 8 votes
    10y
    Timothy Daniels I get what you are saying but my use of cash on cash return is based on the fact that I am leveraging my own cash into these properties. But you're right, each investment strategy is different and you must take this into account!
  • Rental Property Investor · Mobile, AL · Member since 2014 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    @Glenn R. Global warming is something that Al Gore made up in order to sell books in California

  • Cornelius, NC · Member since 2016 · 104 posts · 51 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Mark Bailey:

    @Glenn R. Global warming is something that Al Gore made up in order to sell books in California

    Bill Gates obviously bought the idea.  He's spending a fortune trying to cool the oceans.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Mobile, AL · Member since 2014 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    reposted

  • Rental Property Investor · Mobile, AL · Member since 2014 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    10y
    Originally posted by @Glenn R.:
    Originally posted by @Mark Bailey:

    @Glenn R. Global warming is something that Al Gore made up in order to sell books in California

    Bill Gates obviously bought the idea.  He's spending a fortune trying to cool the oceans.  

     Al Gore is a hell of a salesmen.

  • Rental Property Investor · Mobile, AL · Member since 2014 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    @Glenn R.  the NC market is great.  I am currently looking to get involved in the Raleigh area.  You area looks to be even better with growth up significantly.

  • Dawn BrenengenBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Mark Bailey Are you planning on doing vacation rentals in Raleigh or do you just mean getting involved with investing in general here?

  • Rental Property Investor · Friday Harbor, WA · Member since 2015 · 66 posts · 30 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jeff R.:

    @Timothy Daniels

    Do you feel from a pure cash flow perspective that normal long term rentals are better?

    When would you pick a vacation rental over a long term rental?

    Sorry, I thought I hit "Post" earlier. Anyway, I would just calculate the long-term rental return (market rental value minus expenses) and compare it with the VR rental return (much higher market rental value minus much greater expenses), as well as any increased cost of purchase, if required (in my town VR property must be zoned commercial--which decreases the supply, thus increasing my rental rates!).  If, after all that is factored--including management fees of 10% vs. 35/40% plus additional taxes, utilities, furnishings, etc., it works out to higher profit, there's your answer.  Sometimes it works out quite well.  Other times, not so much. 

    One upside: if it works as a residential rental, you can always revert to that if the vacation rental attempt doesn't pan out. I have also found that if you can create a demonstrable VR income stream, you can sell at a higher price to those who are looking for a self-funding vacation home.

  • Rental Property Investor · Mobile, AL · Member since 2014 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    10y
    Originally posted by @Dawn Brenengen:

    @Mark Bailey Are you planning on doing vacation rentals in Raleigh or do you just mean getting involved with investing in general here?

     Looking for Buy and Hold in the Raleigh area.  I am not too sure that it's a vacation market.

  • Dawn BrenengenBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Mark Bailey It's not!  That's why I was curious  :)

    I do know of a few Air BnB places, though, so someone is doing it!

  • Rental Property Investor · Mobile, AL · Member since 2014 · 13 posts · 1 vote
    10y
    Originally posted by @Dawn Brenengen:

    @Mark Bailey It's not!  That's why I was curious  :)

    I do know of a few Air BnB places, though, so someone is doing it!

     Its funny you mention that.  Last time I was in Raleigh, I actually stayed in an Airbnb.  What are the main draws for vacationers?

  • Dawn BrenengenBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Mark Bailey I doubt anyone is actually vacationing here, but I think short term rentals work for people who are here for sporting/college events and travelers on business.  The last out of country person I worked with flew in from Singapore and stayed in an Airbnb to learn the area.  So, not a huge market, but people are definitely doing it.

  • Cornelius, NC · Member since 2016 · 104 posts · 51 votes
    10y
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