Marketplace Standards Violation: VRBO/HomeAway keeps messing up!

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Marketplace Standards Violation: VRBO/HomeAway keeps messing up!

Kevin Lefeuvre
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes

Yesterday in my morning emails I saw this lovely message for VRBO:

Needless to say I have no attempt of getting the guests info.
Under "Take Action" among options I could declare this as an error and asked the "standards violation team" to look into it.
Didn't hear until mid day, when I decided to call the customer service.
Spent almost an hour with the rep whose conclusion was that I have a language in my listing which in a nutshell asks my guests to avoid an instant booking without telling me a bit about themselves: Who they are, where they come from, purpose of visit, etc.  I repeat that for dog owners to first tell me about the weight and the breed of the dog before booking. I thought this COULD NOT BE THE REAL REASON and that she was wasting my time and asked to talk to her supervisor.

Another hour spent with the supervisor, she had a different diagnostic after a long review : she referred to the same section but said It's because I implicitly DISCOURAGE my guests to use the instant booking! She said the rep was wrong! I told her if she knows that on the owner dashboard, even when instant booking is on, their platform prints pop-ups or big highlighted messages encouraging the hosts to activate instant booking and get more bookings. She said that was not true!!! And recommended I deactivate instant booking!!!

What do you want to do with irrational and ignorant employees/supervisors who know their product less than us hosts?

Hopeless and frustrated, I told her I am going to reword the language but keep the instant booking. She wrote down all the interactions in her CRM. I asked how can I get confirmation that the new language is acceptable by their engines. She said she sees in CRM I have asked the "standards violation team" to take a look, so they'll get back to me. Call terminated.

This morning I received this message:


Having to rely on these guys is the riskiest part of our business.

I thought sharing this here can make your life less stressful if you receive a similar message.

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Valerie Rogers
Property Manager · Aurora, CO · Member since 2014 · 221 posts · 210 votes
9y

@Kevin Lefeuvre

I have a similar story which I'll share, but remember as you read this that I once worked for the original founders of VRBO before Homeaway bought it (and after Homeaway bought it, actually.) My role was as a Customer Service Manager. So just imagine my reaction as you read on.....

I received the same "warning" from Homeaway as you for a listing that I manage for one of my clients. 

I scoured and scoured the listing and could not find anything that looked like a violation. And of course when I clicked the "Take Action" link in the email I received an error message: "Ooops! An error occurred. Please try again later."

So I called customer service and the conversation that ensued was outrageous. The CS agent (Angie) took a lot of time to look at his listing and ended up saying that there were "tons" of violations on his listing. She read this paragraph to me as one example:

Summit County ski areas continually work to maintain and improve snow-making equipment, lifts, and dining. Skiers will love the quick access to Keystone Ski Area, just 6 miles away, as well as the close proximity to Breckenridge Resort, Copper Mountain, Arapahoe Basin ski area (usually open until mid-June), and Vail/Beaver Creek. There are Dinner Sleigh Rides near Breckenridge and Frisco and Tubing hills at Frisco, Copper Mountain and Keystone! Summit County has two Nordic Centers offering excellent cross-country skiing, as well as a Tubing Hill for kids of all ages.

She went on to say that we cannot mention places like Breckenridge and Keystone, because a traveler might think to copy that word from the listing, go to Google, look it up and end up renting an accommodation directly from that place than the VRBO listing. She said these "places" are considered "physical addresses" which is not allowed and that is why my client received the warning email.

I COULD NOT BELIEVE IT!!!

I was so incredulous about this that I said "Are you kidding me" with an understandably raised voice. I even repeated what she said back to her, just to make sure I understood exactly what she said. She gave me a lecture on how to hold a courteous and respectful conversation and warned me that if I did not be quiet and let her talk she would hang up on me and I would have to call back and talk to someone else. I COULD NOT BELIEVE IT!!!

I asked for the call to be escalated and talked to a supervisor (Brett) who said he did not think that could be the problem. He found a sentence in the "About Owner" section that said: "Feel free to contact me to get information about my Condo, local activities, or anything else pertaining to Summit County or Colorado travel and tourism." and said that was probably the violation. I couldn't believe that either. I told the guy that sentence has been on the listing since 2007 and did not encourage the traveler to try to contact him outside of the listing...it was inviting the traveler to send an inquiry. But I removed it anyway.

I was finally able to submit a "case" for the violation team so we'll see what they say is the problem. 

On my own account I received the same "warning" yesterday but today I received the same "retraction" email from VRBO that you mentioned. At least they bothered to apologize. 

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  • Valerie Rogers
    Property Manager · Aurora, CO · Member since 2014 · 221 posts · 210 votes
    9y

    @Kevin Lefeuvre

    I have a similar story which I'll share, but remember as you read this that I once worked for the original founders of VRBO before Homeaway bought it (and after Homeaway bought it, actually.) My role was as a Customer Service Manager. So just imagine my reaction as you read on.....

    I received the same "warning" from Homeaway as you for a listing that I manage for one of my clients. 

    I scoured and scoured the listing and could not find anything that looked like a violation. And of course when I clicked the "Take Action" link in the email I received an error message: "Ooops! An error occurred. Please try again later."

    So I called customer service and the conversation that ensued was outrageous. The CS agent (Angie) took a lot of time to look at his listing and ended up saying that there were "tons" of violations on his listing. She read this paragraph to me as one example:

    Summit County ski areas continually work to maintain and improve snow-making equipment, lifts, and dining. Skiers will love the quick access to Keystone Ski Area, just 6 miles away, as well as the close proximity to Breckenridge Resort, Copper Mountain, Arapahoe Basin ski area (usually open until mid-June), and Vail/Beaver Creek. There are Dinner Sleigh Rides near Breckenridge and Frisco and Tubing hills at Frisco, Copper Mountain and Keystone! Summit County has two Nordic Centers offering excellent cross-country skiing, as well as a Tubing Hill for kids of all ages.

    She went on to say that we cannot mention places like Breckenridge and Keystone, because a traveler might think to copy that word from the listing, go to Google, look it up and end up renting an accommodation directly from that place than the VRBO listing. She said these "places" are considered "physical addresses" which is not allowed and that is why my client received the warning email.

    I COULD NOT BELIEVE IT!!!

    I was so incredulous about this that I said "Are you kidding me" with an understandably raised voice. I even repeated what she said back to her, just to make sure I understood exactly what she said. She gave me a lecture on how to hold a courteous and respectful conversation and warned me that if I did not be quiet and let her talk she would hang up on me and I would have to call back and talk to someone else. I COULD NOT BELIEVE IT!!!

    I asked for the call to be escalated and talked to a supervisor (Brett) who said he did not think that could be the problem. He found a sentence in the "About Owner" section that said: "Feel free to contact me to get information about my Condo, local activities, or anything else pertaining to Summit County or Colorado travel and tourism." and said that was probably the violation. I couldn't believe that either. I told the guy that sentence has been on the listing since 2007 and did not encourage the traveler to try to contact him outside of the listing...it was inviting the traveler to send an inquiry. But I removed it anyway.

    I was finally able to submit a "case" for the violation team so we'll see what they say is the problem. 

    On my own account I received the same "warning" yesterday but today I received the same "retraction" email from VRBO that you mentioned. At least they bothered to apologize. 

    1Reply
  • Kevin Lefeuvre
    OP
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes
    9y

    Hmmm. That makes it even worse. I thought of this and that's why I called CS, but when they didn't immediately say "no worries it's a mistake, we have hundreds of calls this morning on that", I concluded that can't be a bad email blast.

    @Valerie Rogers I selfishly wish you would have stayed with them. We would have a better CS experience. Hahaha.

    0Reply
  • Kevin Lefeuvre
    OP
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes
    9y

    when I think about it , it's amazing that both in your experience and mine each rep and supervisor tried to find a reason for the "violation" and INVENTED one, each different, instead of saying "I don't know. Let me investigate and get back to you". It would have not solved the email issue, but at least their credibility and trust worthiness would have stayed intact.

    0Reply
  • William Leahy
    Rental Property Investor · Chatham, MA · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 65 votes
    9y

    I have used VRBO as a renter from the beginning when they really were "vacation rental by owner". They have perpetually continued a decent into the suck since first being aquired by homeaway and then more precipitously when expedia reared their ugly heads. I now much prefer airbnb and hope the magic of capitalism will produce more competition that will hold them accoutable. For now, we are captive.

    0Reply
  • Valerie Rogers
    Property Manager · Aurora, CO · Member since 2014 · 221 posts · 210 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Kevin Lefeuvre:

    Having to rely on these guys is the riskiest part of our business.

    Agreed. 

    If you (like me) are interested in gaining "Listing Site Independence" (or LSI) you might consider joining Matt Landau's "Inner Circle" group on his Vacation Rental Marketing blog. I've learned so much there from all of the members. The attitude is one of collaboration, group sharing & learning from each other's best practices and ideas. Well worth the membership fee, in my opinion.

    0Reply
  • Kevin Lefeuvre
    OP
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes
    9y

    @William Leahy - VRBO started in mid 90s, more than a decade before airbnb. Last year with HA combined their revenue was $166M growing at 30% a year. One of the biggest growth sources for Experian. Now compare to airbnb in 2016: $2B growing 90% per year!

    0Reply
  • Andrew Wong
    Investor · Milpitas, CA · Member since 2015 · 278 posts · 155 votes
    9y

    @Valerie Rogers, thanks for that site. I'll need to check it out.

    0Reply
  • Kevin Lefeuvre
    OP
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes
    9y

    Very interesting @Valerie Rogers. What holds me from more fundamental investments in the independence is regulation, which is also the other risk of this business. I have seen people, making big investments in Anaheim and more recently in Palm Spring, being forced to shut down and sell. You may say there are cities and markets which are solid, regulations have passed and all is good. Very true, but then I am seeing quite a bit of competitive pressure on those ones.
    And since in the effort for independence, the location/city plays a key role (SEO), you lose all the work when you sell the property. Unless you create one site/branding per property, that sells with the property, which increases the required effort, but then not all buyers are interested in STR.

    1Reply
  • John D.
    Rental Property Investor · La Quinta, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 779 votes
    9y

    @Kevin Lefeuvre well said.  While the returns can be much greater, the cheese moves much faster in the game of short-term rentals, and the knowledge and strategy required when it comes to existing and future government regulation (on the city, county, and even state levels) is hugely important as one could get put out of business at any time.

    1Reply
  • William Leahy
    Rental Property Investor · Chatham, MA · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 65 votes
    9y

    Kevin, my experience is certainly anecdotal. I have had great success with HA as an owner and a guest but  they seem to disappoint more often than not. I feel airbnb is a more organic company. Certainly HA has grown through aquisition. I have found that airbnb rewards hosts who produce , specifically through the super host program. I have to believe this business follows the 80/20 rule, with 20% or so of host/managers producing 80% of the revenue. I don't feel HA is as supportive of those 20 than airbnb.

    1Reply
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