Rental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
I get asked this question daily, and now with the help of ScreenTime on my iPhone I have an (almost) perfect answer.
In the past 7 days I’ve spent exactly 3 hours on my 5 properties via the apps on my phone. This was a blind analysis as it was done without knowing “screentime“ existed.
AirBnB: 2 hours 29 minutes
VRBO: 31 minutes
180 minutes divided by 5 properties = 36 Minutes Total Per Property
I am in the Pigeon Forge Gatlinburg Wears Valley Smoky Mountain market with 80-85% occupancy year round. Other markets may require less time or even much less time if your properties are not as occupied.
Of course there are occasions when I open my computer and sit there for an hour or two changing prices and policies. I would say this happens once per week or every other week. 90%+ of my “work” is done via the apps on my phone. I also get the occasional texty guest thst cant seem to figure out how to message on the platform. I will entertain them until I start to feel like their therapist and then I ghost. This happens about twice per month.
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
7y
I only have the one and it is the slow time of the year for new bookings. I still have people coming and going for my current reservations and it doesn't take up much time at all.
I am just checking witht he cleaners. I have a lot of repeat guests this time of the year for football games and my canadian family that comes down for most of December they are all low maintenance.
Sometime I go up for "happy hour" with my canadian friends.
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
7y
I only have the one and it is the slow time of the year for new bookings. I still have people coming and going for my current reservations and it doesn't take up much time at all.
I am just checking witht he cleaners. I have a lot of repeat guests this time of the year for football games and my canadian family that comes down for most of December they are all low maintenance.
Sometime I go up for "happy hour" with my canadian friends.
Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 533 posts · 433 votes
7y
Lately a lot more than the past but I'm launching a (4) property now that is large home and that just takes a lot of time. I am also embarking on a website overhaul and spend a fair amount of time updating pricing and looking for new ideas and opportunities (some here on BP). It's certainly not a full time job but consumes about 2-3 hours every morning, including weekends because none of us can hang a closed sign in the window.
@Lucas Carl
I have been looking into vacation rentals for a little bit and curious more on the numbers side. My understanding of Airbnb is that they get paid seperatley than you do so no questions or issues there. However do you have any that are managed by others? As in a vacation rental PM that handles the delivery of keys, clean up, etc. if so I’d like to further extend this conversation
Rental Property Investor · Englewood, FL · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 21 votes
7y
Just throwing this out
750 Hours
That what you need a year for Active real estate investor compared to passive real estate investor.
With our 13 properties we have no problem meeting the 750 hours a year.
No tax accountant, but it sure helps being a Active Real Estate Investor when it comes to tax time
The numbers up top are about right for answering and booking people into our units. Then you have to think about scheduling cleaners, maintenance on units. First year is easiest to get the 750 hours setting up units for rental
Investor · The worst town to live in, KS · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
1300 hours in my experience. This is with 24 STRs with 82 beds. My wife and I spend about 25 hours a week combined with the rentals. She spends about 10 hours cleaning, stocking and doing minor repairs. I spend about 15 hours promoting them, collecting rent, doing repairs and all other necessities. 25 x 52 is 1300 hours. I have a guy that does mowing. I just make the $65 monthly payment for the mower he financed, and buy his gas.
Rental Property Investor · Campbell, CA · Member since 2017 · 419 posts · 499 votes
7y
A few additional things that take up some time for mine (might not apply to all and time spent varies)
File taxes monthly (reconciliation + filing)
Coordinating with cleaners
Discussing any issues with cleaners
Maintenance issues
Ordering various items from amazon as needed
Monitoring the local market conditions
Tracking all expenses (especially prior to tax season)
Review Invoices
Inputting everything into my excel
I would estimate it’s about another half hour per rental per week. All in time I would estimate around 1 hour per rental per week when nothing weird is going on.
Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2018 · 55 posts · 25 votes
7y
@Luke Carl Great idea using the phone's capabilities to measure your involved time! I'm curious, if you were growing your portfolio quickly enough, at what point would you see yourself getting professional management to help with all or some of your properties? I understand the benefits of DIY as long as you can support it, but I'd like to get a feel for what kind of workload would make a DIY'er switch to managed, and what kind of cut you'd be expecting/willing to lose in order to do so.
Rental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
7y
@Bradley Kirschbaum I’m not interested in using a PM as they charge 40% in my market and my market is very easy to self manage from any distance. I’ve found that 5 self managed VRs is my limit to keep the stress of the reviews to a minimum. I’ll contact you on PM to keep this thread on topic.
Rental Property Investor · Campbell, CA · Member since 2017 · 419 posts · 499 votes
7y
@Lucas Carl mind elaborating on why the reviews prevent you from taking on more than 5 units? That’s a very interesting comment... I’ve seen your reviews and you’re an all star. I would think with the returns you’re seeing you’d be buying at least one new cabin a year.
Once again sir, thank you for the timely post! I live vicariously through you and many of your posts, we have one VR and are working on building our empire. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and tips in here. I will certainly be asking you for one of your phone consultations in the future! ...so far doing okay learning and figuring out what the H we're doing with one Vacation Rental!
Rental Property Investor · Campbell, CA · Member since 2017 · 419 posts · 499 votes
7y
@Migeul Obramowitz why would anyone be watching their phones for messages to come in?
I’ve found Airbnb to be extremely easy and I don’t think it’s been exaggerated at all. Expedia is free as part of VRBO now. I’ve found all mine on Expedia and it’s pretty cool to see them up there :)
Real Estate Broker · Columbus, OH · Member since 2016 · 181 posts · 244 votes
7y
@Luke Carl thank you for that analysis! I have always been curious how much time we spend on each rental. I see that you tracked your time spent on Airbnb, and platforms. I’m curious how much time/money you spend on things outside of the platforms. What time do you spend cleaning (or coordinating with cleaners) and maintenance? Do you take feedback from your reviews, and turn that in to action items for your “on-site” workers? Do you track and follow up with their work?
I know that after a year or so of guests it seems like you may have fixed all the things in the house that need fixed, but soon enough I think it makes sense to go back through the house and re-fresh the design and items inside. My first full time STR house was launched in sept 2016, and in April of 2018 we went through and updated about 1/2 of all items inside. Do you do things like that?
Also, do you file damage claims? With 24 STR properties that we manage, I spend roughly 2 hours a week just filling damage claims, talking to Airbnb reps on the phone, ect.
I’m also curious if you spend time on accounting? Paying invoices, tracking expenses, and analysis on how you can improve the bottom line?
I am thinking that all of these items end up at about 3 - 5 hours per week, per house for us. And yes, that is if nothing goes crazy. We had a guest bring us some bed bugs last month. That one thing cost me about 20 hours of my time when it was all said and done.
How long do you guys think you spend in total on each house?
Rental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
7y
@Benjamin Vail Impossible to track all this stuff and if I were to track it all it would take more time and add to my number! I think my time is better spent not tracking the time.
I do not file damage claims so that's a zero for me (thats a whole other conversation)
I'd say coordinating cleaners and paying invoices is maybe 3 hours per week total for my 5 properties. In fact I just sent . So... If we want to get picky I'm just guessing but I believe I can do everything that's needed to be done for a particular property right at about the 60 minute per week mark. Again, this is after the property is 6 months or older and running smoothly.
We're starting to split hairs here but this is a great discussion.
Investor · The worst town to live in, KS · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
I buy furring strips (1x2) in bulk from a lumberyard. Bevel one edge with a table saw, sand them smooth, stain them, urethane them; then make picture frames for the adult male oriented artwork that I buy on Ebay. The artwork goes in bedrooms. Different bedrooms have different themes.
I might spend 5-10 hours a week making frames. Is it work? Yes. Do I enjoy doing it? Yes.
3 weeks ago I spent a few hours to clean up vomit. Is it work? Yes. Do I enjoy doing it? No.
@Luke Carl I'll even send you a personally framed adult oriented piece of artwork along with some calendars and pens for one of your books.
Rental Property Investor · Campbell, CA · Member since 2017 · 419 posts · 499 votes
7y
I think the inference @Lucas Carl was making with this post is this: If on average it takes 1 hour per week per property, and you gross $1000 a week in rent, and your property manager takes 30-40%, is it worth it hiring a property manager? That’s $300-$400 an HOUR you’re paying them. I kinda feel that’s the light bulb moment here that no one else has mentioned.
Rental Property Investor · Campbell, CA · Member since 2017 · 419 posts · 499 votes
7y
@Aaron Garner while true... everyone’s goal is to make ‘infinity’ returns I would argue its nearly impossible to do with a STR while paying 30-40% management fees.
If you are able to accomplish it (I have one property that could do that) your returns will still be substantially smaller for a minimal amount of work. It also doesn’t change the fact that you’re paying someone $300+ an hour to do something you can do from a cell phone with very little effort
Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2013 · 88 posts · 44 votes
7y
@Luke Carl or anyone else on this thread who is actively managing several Air BNB's. Anyone interested in splitting the costs of a VA for Air BNB?
Is there anyone doing a lot Air BNB's who is using or thinking of hiring a VA from overseas to assist them with their business? I have about 10 Air BNB's and I've been doing most of the work with a full time employee and myself. I manage most of these remotely.
It takes work to set up a system and to hire good cleaners and handyman. However, once that's done yo have 80% of the work done. The hard part is the initial set up for each unit.
However, I want to automate more of the process through a VA and take myself out of the process. This is the last 20% I need to get to.
After researching this topic for some time I realize you need to hire a full time dedicated VA who is working for you and not doing anything else.
However, I don't have enough work for a full time dedicated VA to do. Furthermore, I can't teach the VA everything because that's very time consuming.
If you are interested in forming a loose partnership in splitting a VA cost and resources let me know.
I'm not asking for money. However, for someone out there who is doing the Air BNB full or almost full time, and is looking to expand their business utilizing foreign VA's, and want to share resources then please send me a PM. Thanks
Rental Property Investor · Tennessee Florida · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 5k+ votes
7y
@Dan K. perhaps you didn’t get the point of this thread. Your reply is justifiable, but might I suggest a new thread of your own on the subject. Happy Halloween 18!!