Rentals Taxed on Net Income Which Doesn't Include Mortgage?

Rentals Taxed on Net Income Which Doesn't Include Mortgage?

Investor · Corpus Christi, TX-Texas · Member since 2015 · 81 posts · 56 votes

Hi Everyone - I have 3 STRs and have gotten very serious with looking at the full financial picture on them now that we have a CPA. We just bought the last two in the last 6 months, but have had our first for almost 5 years now. We were very nonchalant with the numbers on the first one cause we always assumed we were doing well since it was renting great (bad assumption, always know your numbers! very big rookie mistake). 

Anyway, signed up for quickbooks and for 2018 we ended up basically breaking even with revenue v. expenses.  In my mind, I was thinking well at least we won't owe any income taxes on it, WRONG!  Turns out you aren't taxed on profit, you are taxed on net income which doesn't include mortgage payments. Meaning if we broke even with $0 profit but paid $10k in mortgage payments, we are taxed on $10k net income as if the mortgage payments weren't expenses. I know this is a very rookie mistake on our part, but that seems crazy to me!

I made $0 in profit but still owe thousands in taxes. Even if I made $10k in profit and paid $10k in mortgage payments, I would be taxed as if I made $20k profit. It makes the appeal of doing rentals at all not that great.

Let's say I buy a place for $200k and it generates $50k in revenue. Let's assume $20k profit and $20k mortgage payments.  I am going to be paying taxes on $40k which will be at least $8k. So with the $20k profit minus $8k in taxes, I'm really only getting $12k cash in my pocket after the tax year. That's only a 6% return on the purchase price. How do you get around this? It's kind of taken the wind out of my sails to be honest... How can you get better numbers??

@Luke Carl

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Rental Property Investor · Castle Rock, CO · Member since 2017 · 335 posts · 387 votes
7y

@Chase Cline

Meaning if we broke even with $0 profit but paid $10k in mortgage payments, we are taxed on $10k net income as if the mortgage payments weren't expenses

What you're missing is that mortgage payments are two things (four if your insurance and taxes are escrowed). 1) Principal: You're paying back the bank loan and adding equity, 2) Interest: An expense incurred in obtaining the loan, 3) Insurance: An expense incurred in holding a valuable property that you want protected, 4) Taxes: An expense incurred in property ownership.

Remember that the principal payments add to your equity. You'll get that money back someday when you sell it. Therefore, you can't claim it as an expense.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Castle Rock, CO · Member since 2017 · 335 posts · 387 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Steve Mason:

    So if I'm understanding @Tim Schroeder right (this will also be my first year filing taxes including a rental), all those expenses are deductible except the actual Principal payment? Like Taxes INsurance, Interest? Then miles, advertising, repairs...what about interest on a Line of credit you took out to put a big down payment on the purchase? Thanks. 

    All interest is deductible. Everything you spend related to the property is deductible. If it's a big item like a roof, then it's a capital expenditure and it's handled differently and the deduction is taken over the course of a number of years (your accountant should explain that)

  • Investor · The worst town to live in, KS · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @Tim Schroeder is correct.  I got my tax returns back from the accountant today and he had amortized the new roofs I put on several properties.

  • Specialist · San Francisco Bay Area · Member since 2018 · 221 posts · 160 votes
    7y

    @Paul Sandhu amortized roofs?

  • Specialist · San Francisco Bay Area · Member since 2018 · 221 posts · 160 votes
    7y

    This thread is nuts

  • Rental Property Investor · Castle Rock, CO · Member since 2017 · 335 posts · 387 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Matt Ward:

    This thread is nuts

    And that comment makes it better?

  • Investor · Columbus, GA · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Chase Cline mortgage balance pay down by your tenants is effectively income. The mortgage is not an expense, like the BP calculator says. Taxes are a necessary expense that are not avoidable. A mortgage is avoidable, it's not necessary.

  • Investor · Columbus, GA · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Paul Sandhu the roofs are depreciated as an improvement to the property either all at once, or over a period of years. 

  • Investor · The worst town to live in, KS · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @Anthony Dooley If you depreciate something all at once, it's called "Expensing" it.  If it's amortized over a period of years, it's called "Depreciating".

  • Specialist · San Francisco Bay Area · Member since 2018 · 221 posts · 160 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Paul Sandhu:

    @Anthony Dooley If you depreciate something all at once, it's called "Expensing" it.  If it's amortized over a period of years, it's called "Depreciating".

     Amortization and Depreciation are not the same thing.

  • Specialist · San Francisco Bay Area · Member since 2018 · 221 posts · 160 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Tim Schroeder:
    Originally posted by @Matt Ward:

    This thread is nuts

    And that comment makes it better?

     Wasn’t a value add statement, just an observation/opinion.  Were you implying my comment was harmful?  I don’t see how....  sorry if it offended you personally.

  • Rental Property Investor · Rutherford, NJ · Member since 2017 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Larry T.

    What is your opinion on paying down mortgage?

    Don't accelerate?

  • Rental Property Investor · North Fork, NY · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 631 votes
    7y

    Not to confuse you, but here's another spin on this already interesting thread. 

    Our accountant noted that our STR/LTR income was high in relation to our deductible expenses (and W2 income, on top of that) so he told us to consider having an LLC owned by us as the managing business, paying the Self Employment Income and contributing to a SEP IRA.

    I think you got the message by now that your Personal Net Worth went up as you paid down your principal. Or more accurately, your PNW went up when your GUESTS paid down your principal.

    Good luck on your new properties.

    Said accountant also recommended using Quickbooks because our spreadsheets aren't the officially accepted type (GAP) that the IRS wants to see.

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