My Plan: Please poke holes in it :)

My Plan: Please poke holes in it :)

Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 36 posts · 28 votes

Hi BP,

I have been researching, reading and listening to everything I can find in REI for the last few months. I feel that settling on the plan to follow is the biggest hurdle. I am pretty sure I now understand my investment goals. Pipe dreams or possible?

My primary goal is to create generational wealth and future financial freedom by investing in Real Estate, specifically the STR market. My secondary goal is to have a few nice homes my family and I can vacation to several times a year near our home in Austin, Texas.

My background is I own a home with significant equity, a business I started that does not require my personal full time involvement (my husband is full time however which we would like to change), I own the office property that is rented to our business in Austin. We have about 50$k cash saved to invest. We have credit ratings around 830 personally and business credit ratings in the 530s.

My plan is to use our cash to put a downpayment on our first STR in Canyon Lake Texas and pull the remainder of the loan as a cash out refinance on our current home - IF we do not qualify for a standard loan as an investment property/vacation home. AIRDNA shows 40k ARI and the purchase price is $250k.

We would budget about 10k on furnishings. Ideally, I manage to start then turn over to a manager down the road. Assuming it all goes well- buy another in a different city.

Questions and thoughts welcome!

April

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Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 317 posts · 257 votes
5y

@April Clark it is just my personal beliefs so take it what it is but if you want to get into the hoteling business you should invest in a hotel. The STR craze has the opportunity to become at some point highly problematic with so many people buying "empty" houses. Just imagine if everyone that currently owns rental property converts them into STR...The rentals will do great and STR will face massive competition. At some point the margins have to come back in line but right now they are commensurate of the risk reward you prefer to take. I prefer the get rich slow through traditional rentals route as everyone needs a place to live and this method is time tested to withstand the ups and downs of the market. It has worked for so many people and built so many success stories well before STR became so hot.


I tend to stay away from what is hot at the time because I follow the logic of those like Warren Buffet who believe boring is more sexy. For example, tech stocks in the late 90's, or now for that matter will not find themselves in my portfolio. My friends will laugh and tell me I am losing out on sooooo much opportunity because my rents are 1/10th what they could be if I converted to STR but some day I will laugh when they go belly up in the down market while my tenant filled units keep chuggin along. I don't care about today, I care about the long term generational wealth and it seems you might be along the same thoughts so I thought I would share my personal rationale and why I chose long term rentals as my path to building wealth in real estate.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 36 posts · 28 votes
    5y

    Thanks for the confidence and enthusiasm James - but I would rather have the holes now then later. I am a doer - I don’t like wasting my time and not doing. Just want to make sure  I educate myself first- this forum has been great for that :)

  • Rental Property Investor · Columbia, SC · Member since 2020 · 10 posts · 4 votes
    5y

    @April Clark hey April. We are doing this as well.

    1. If you plan to put this in your name using a second home loan (what we did), you cannot have a property manager or long term lease agreement with anyone as I have been told. I’d highly recommend self managing anyway, as it can be highly automated once set up and running with the right software and systems in place. Tools like Smartbnb and Pricelabs combined with AirBnB and VRBO are a game changer.

    2. Make certain your area/ property has no short term rental restrictions that are show stoppers as well as look at the city/county’s long term outlook on STRs. You don’t want them putting you out of business in a year with some new ordnance that’s in the works. I’d just call the county or city clerk and start asking questions about STRs and tell them your intent.

    3. You may have better luck right now looking for portfolio lenders and credit unions for the vacation home loan. There are new restrictions on how many of these loans Fannie and Freddie can hold and it was affected rates and term for those banks that sell all their loans to them.

    Best of luck! It’s been exciting so far. We just went live with our first listing last night!

  • Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 36 posts · 28 votes
    5y

    Thanks @Troy Layne Pierce I had not heard about the management requirement. We were planning on self management to start really just to gain the education. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Rockford, IL · Member since 2014 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Account Closed,

    A number of my local colleagues are doing STR and, from their experience, I can say this:

    Decide NOW whether you want to do Real Estate or be in the hospitality business. They're not incompatible. The limit is the number of hours in the day versus the workload.

    Real Estate is only a basic component of hospitality. The property doesn't make the money, the service you provide to your guests is what brings the income.

    My $0.02 ...

  • Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 317 posts · 257 votes
    5y

    @April Clark you can always rent vacation rentals....it’s just like boats to me, they are for renting not owning.

  • Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 36 posts · 28 votes
    5y

    @David Dachtera that does make sense. Honestly that's why we wanted to test the water so to speak on a property we wouldn't mind just having as a vacation home for ourselves if the STR business doesn't make sense.

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    5y

    @Account Closed My hole to poke is on Business Operational side of things. 

    Your speaking to starting up STR business, and doing such is a very active engagement. My first question would be; looking back on the first 2-3 years of your current existing business, all it took to go from 0 to where it went, the hours etc, do you have THAT available to do right now, dedicatedly toward a STR business? Because odd's are, that's what it will take.

    I think the STR is a wonderful industry for many, although for every 1 who does well in it there is 2 or 3 who have been destroyed in it. It is much more a hospitality business than real estate investing, much MUCH more so. So know, your NOT RE investing, your getting into the hospitality business, that's the head space you need to succeed.

    With that I would counter to maybe consider a bridge venture, something to get some exposure and experience into things but not full out 0-100. Locating a 50/50 partner in doing a STR or REI deal, consider it load sharing. The focus is not on profits from whole $ amounts but experience, so go ahead and split it even 3,4,5 ways, what matters is mitigated risk with exposure and experience.

  • Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 36 posts · 28 votes
    5y

    @James Hamling I am coming to this conclusion more and more honestly.  My primary goal statement was:

    "My primary goal is to create generational wealth and future financial freedom by investing in Real Estate, specifically the STR market. My secondary goal is to have a few nice homes my family and I can vacation to several times a year near our home in Austin, Texas."

    As someone pointed out I need to understand what my definition of generational wealth is and as many have pointed out if I make enough income I can have the vacation properties without being in the hospitality business.   I have the time now to develop a new business and the motivation but ideally I want REIs that are part of an exit strategy not another full time business- at least not after it is established.  I guess if I am honest with myself, I want passive income.  I want to get it to the place where if I want to be involved or if I want to grow the portfolio then I can get involved rather than being involved by necessity.   It is really easy to look at the annual revenue of some STRs and get lured by the possibility at being able to make the income of 10 properties with one swing but not without the work or added risk.  

    I think this discussion is making me revaluate my goal statement to:

    "My primary goal is to create generational wealth and future financial freedom by investing in Real Estate, specifically in the .... market. This goal will enable our family to have a secure retirement plan, college (or business startup) funds and long term passive income to vacation and travel whenever we would like." I just have to figure out the ... and see if I do want to be in the hospitality industry or strictly on the investment side of things.  

    This forum is helping me solidify my thinking for that first investment I am itching to purchase, I truly appreciate being able to think out loud here and learn from all your insights.   Back to the drawing board, I will likely be posting a new plan, after another round of research. 




  • Rental Property Investor · Vail, CO · Member since 2021 · 19 posts · 12 votes
    5y

    @April Clark

    A lot of STR properties require a "ramp up" period. Generally speaking, it takes the first year of marketing on all the different platforms (Airbnb, VRBO etc..) to reach a sustainable listing. The longer the better, returning clientele, more positive reviews etc..You starting it yourself and then hiring a local management company could hurt you. Most PMs will not use your listing, they will be creating their own, hence starting all over from the beginning with no reviews or listing longevity. Factor in your local PM commissions into that potential gross rents (40k- commissions) you are now down to about 30k.. minus maintenance repairs, late night service when the heat or AC goes out..

    I am not familiar with Texas STRs but I actively manage a portfolio from Breckenridge to Vail, Colorado and would be happy to share more details over a conversation.

    Best of luck

  • Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 36 posts · 28 votes
    5y

    @Clay Massey thanks for the tips regarding the pm had not considered they might start from scratch on the listing and ratings! That is a good question to line up from the outset. I am able to get a 3.2 % interest rate if it’s a second home vs 3.8% if it’s not, but if it’s the difference between being able to have a PM or not that changes things. I need to study the market more. The numbers are not so great when you plug it all in. Thanks!

  • Property Manager · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2018 · 280 posts · 221 votes
    5y

    @April Clark while this sounds like a nice plan in theory, I’d adjust the following to make sure you can carry it out to reality.

    1. It’s a numbers game. Depending on the purchase price and the projected returns, you can decide how much to put into the furnishings for instance. For $250K PP and 10K furnishings I assume you’re looking at a one bedroom. What’s the return on one bedrooms in the area? If that math meets your goals, great. If not, you’ll need to adjust. I don’t trust Airdna numbers because in my area it’s inaccurate, make sure you’re doing your own or checking other sources so you get a realistic picture.

    2. Be mindful of city regulations. I’m not familiar with your market but I know that STRs can be heavily regulated and only allowed in specific areas, account for that.

    3. Management will be easy for one property, but this is far from passive if you are doing things yourself. A lot of the software for STRs that is super helpful is worth after 4 properties or so. In the beginning you may not need it because a goal of software is to keep everything in one place but with one E property there is little room to streamline.

    It’s great that you have a refined idea and equity that can help you get started. Good luck!

  • Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HAWAII (HI) · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    Short term rentals have become all the rage. However, many investors are on the brink of getting burned. Cities all over Europe have initiated bylaws aimed at regulating and taxing short term rentals. In some cases they've been outlawed altogether. The latest city to implement rules is Toronto. There is a shortage of affordable rental housing in Toronto. Recently, they outlawed short term rentals of secondary dwellings. For example, if you have an in-law suite with a separate entrance, you're not allowed to rent it short term. You can rent your primary residence, or a room in your home. When you do, you'll pay an annual licensing fee, and a nightly tax. The new rules are too complex to cover in detail in this post. But the point is, you could end up on the wrong side of a new rule. And States are pissed they are not collecting revenue - cpexecutive.com/post/report-short-term-rentals-costing-states-millions/?utm_source=whatcountsemail&utm_medium=cpe%20daily&utm_campaign=cpe%20daily%20newsletter

    I've spoken with many investors who saw short term rentals as a lucrative market opportunity. They bought property assuming that the same market conditions would persist over the long term. They neglected the possibility of regulation, and they neglected the possibility of an oversupply depressing prices. The barrier to entry for short term rentals has been low historically. Neither of these assumptions are good if you're making a highly leveraged purchase of an investment property. There are many property owners in Toronto who are staring financial difficulty in the face. The rules don't take effect for 6 months, but the message is clear.

    Cities want their hotel tax revenue.

    Cities don't want those big bad real estate investors to make too much money.

    Cities don't want rental inventory disappearing from the market.

    Don't make a highly leveraged 25 year financial commitment on the assumption that current market conditions will remain the same.

    I stay away from things that the general public get into and it seems everyone wants to rent out an extra room or home. It will be a race to the bottom. I think you should stick to bread and butter class C and B rental property and stay away from these niches like student housing or military towns.

    Here’s some more intro about the tricky tax situation:

    Rented less than 15 days during the year with more than 14 days of personal use

    For a vacation home in this category, the tax rules are really simple. You need not report any of the rental income on your Form 1040. However, you cannot deduct expenses directly attributable to the rental period (rental agency fees, cleaning, and so forth). If your vacation home happens to be located near a major event — like a PGA golf tournament or a big multi-day concert — you may be able to rent the place out for a short period even at high rates and pay zero federal income tax.

    Tax-smart year-end strategy: The more rental days between now and year-end, the better — as long as they don’t exceed 14 days for the year.

    Rented more than 14 days with substantial personal use

    Your vacation home falls into this category if you rent it for more than 14 days during the year and your personal use exceeds the greater of:(1) 14 days or (2) 10% of the rental days. For example, a vacation home that’s rented for 180 days during the year and used by you and family member for 60 days falls into this slot.

    Personal usage includes use by you, other family members (whether they pay fair market rent or not) or anyone else who pays less than market rent. Personal use also includes time spent at your place by another party under a reciprocal sharing arrangement (“I use your place in exchange for you using my place”) whether the other party pays market rent or not.

    Days devoted principally to repairs and maintenance are considered days of vacancy and are disregarded, even if family members are present while you work away.

    The tax drill

    Vacation homes in this category are treated as personal residences for federal income tax purposes. Follow this six-step procedure to account for the property’s rental income and all the expenses.

    Step 1: Report 100% of rental income on Schedule E of Form 1040.

    Step 2: Deduct 100% of any direct rental expenses (such as rental agency fees and advertising) on Schedule E.

    Step 3: Allocate mortgage interest and property taxes between rental and personal use. See below for how to do that.

    Step 4: Deduct as Schedule E rental expenses the allocable mortgage interest and property taxes from Step 3.

    Step 5: If there’s any net rental income left after Step 4, deduct as rental costs allocable indirect expenses — maintenance, utilities, association fees, insurance, depreciation and so forth on Schedule E — but only to the point where you zero out rental income. In allocating these indirect expenses, consider only actual rental and personal-use days during the year, and ignore days of vacancy. For example, if you rent your vacation home for 90 days during the year and use the property 60 days for personal purposes, allocate 60% of the maintenance, utilities, and so forth to rental usage and 40% to personal usage. The 40% is non-deductible. Even so, the bottom line on Schedule E will often be zero, because the rental income will often be fully offset by deductible expenses.

    Step 6: Write off the personal-use percentage of mortgage interest and property taxes as itemized deductions on Schedule A of Form 1040, subject to the new Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017 (TCJA) limits for 2018-2025 (see “TCJA changes affecting vacation-home owners” below).

    You are allowed to carry over any disallowed allocable indirect expenses to future years when you can deduct them against rental profits (if you ever have any).

    Controversy regarding how to allocate mortgage interest and property taxes

    The IRS says you should use only actual days of personal and rental usage to allocate all non-direct vacation-home expenses, including mortgage interest and property taxes. However, two Appeals Court decisions say you can allocate mortgage interest and property taxes differently, by treating actual rental occupancy days as rental days and all other days — including days of vacancy — as personal days.

    Before the TCJA, the Appeals Court method was often more beneficial because (1) it allocates more mortgage interest and property taxes to Schedule A (where you could usually fully write off these expenses as allowable itemized deductions under prior law) and (2) it allocates less mortgage interest and property taxes to Schedule E, which usually allowed you to currently deduct more of the other expenses allocable to rental usage (property insurance, utilities, etc.) on Schedule E when applying the rental income limitation.

    But after the TCJA changes, some vacation-home owners may benefit from using the IRS-approved method instead of the Appeals Court method. That’s because you will never get any tax benefit from allocating more interest and taxes to Schedule A than you can currently deduct after the TCJA changes. Your tax pro can run the numbers at tax return time and figure out the best allocation method for interest and taxes.

    Tax-smart year-end strategy: If your property fits solidly into this category for 2018 and your expenses will comfortably exceed rental income (the usual situation), you will probably come out ahead by renting it out for some additional days between now and year-end. That way, you’ll receive more rental income (good for cash flow), and you can probably still offset all the rental income with direct expenses, allocable mortgage interest and property taxes, and allocable indirect expenses. So you’ll have that much more tax-sheltered rental income, which is always a good thing.

    The bottom line

    As you can see, the tax rules for vacation homes are complicated.

    If you have a vacation home that is rented for more than 14 days during the year and your personal use does not exceed the greater of (1) 14 days or (2) 10% of the rental days, the home is classified as a rental property for tax purposes. (I’ll cover the tax rules for vacation homes that are classified as rental properties in next week’s column. So please stay tuned.)

    TCJA changes affecting vacation-home owners

    New limit on property-tax deductions:Before the TCJA, you could claim itemized deductions for an unlimited amount of personal state and local property taxes. For 2018-2025, however, the TCJA limits itemized deductions for personal state and local property and income taxes to a combined total of only $10,000 ($5,000 for those who use married filing separate status). This limitation can affect your ability to claim itemized deductions for property taxes on a vacation home.

    New limits on home-mortgage interest deductions: The TCJA also places new limits on the amount of home mortgage debt for which you can claim itemized qualified residence interest expense deductions. These limits can affect your ability to claim itemized deductions for mortgage interest on a vacation home.

    For 2018-2025, the TCJA generally allows you treat interest on up to $750,000 of home acquisition debt (incurred to buy or improve a first or second personal residence) as deductible qualified residence interest. If you use married filing separate status, the limit is halved to $375,000. Thanks to a grandfather provision for pre-TCJA mortgages (explained below), this change will mainly affect new buyers (those with post 12/15/17 mortgages).

    TCJA change for home-equity debt: For 2018-2025, the TCJA generally eliminates the prior-law provision that allowed you to treat interest on up to $100,000 of home-equity debt as deductible qualified residence interest ($50,000 if you used married filing separate status).

    TCJA grandfather rules for up to $1 million of home-acquisition debt: Under one grandfather rule, the TCJA changes do not affect qualified residence interest deductions on up to $1 million of home-acquisition debt that you took out: (1) before 12/16/17 or (2) under a binding contract that was in effect before 12/16/17, as long as the home purchase closed before 4/1/18. If you use married filing separate status, the limit is halved to $500,000.

    Under a second grandfather rule, the TCJA changes do not affect qualified residence interest deductions on up to $1 million/$500,000 of home-acquisition debt that you took out before 12/16/17 and then refinanced later — to the extent the initial principal balance of the new loan does not exceed the principal balance of the old loan at the time of the refinancing.

    Home-equity debt treated as home-acquisition debt: Say you spent or spend the proceeds of a home-equity loan to build, buy, or improve your first or second personal residence. The loan counts as home-acquisition debt for which qualified residence interest deductions are allowed, as long as the applicable home acquisition debt limit ($750,000/$375,000 or $1 million/$500,000) is not exceeded.

    Bigger standard deductions: For 2018-2025, the TCJA almost doubled the standard deduction amounts. For 2018, they are:

    $24,000 for married joint-filing couples.

    $18,000 for heads of households.

    $12,000 for singles.

    This seemingly benign change can adversely affect vacation-home owners, because their allowable itemized deductions (including those for vacation home mortgage interest and property taxes) may not exceed their standard deduction amount for 2018-2025.

    Here in Hawaii… Short term vacation rentals come with an additional tax burden of 10.25% in Hawaii, the Transient Accommodations Tax (TAT). There's also the 4% General Excise Tax (GET), which you will need to apply and register for a GE License. Additionally, since you're looking at Waikiki, there will be an additional 0.5% Oahu Surcharge Tax. The taxes are calculated on your gross income from the rents.

  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    5y
    Well, that is why I pay a CPA to handle our return. Plus, I pay both state and county occupancy taxes so they are both getting their cut.
    We are waaay outside of town and I am not worried about vacation rentals getting regulated out. Places like Pigeon Forge are running on vacation rentals so there is no way they will go away.

  • Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 36 posts · 28 votes
    5y

    @Lane Kawaoka I am upset that I can only like your post once. I am going to bookmark it and read it about ten times to fully digest the amount of info in there. I appreciate the time you took to write such a detailed response. I especially appreciate the tax side of the story. This was the first year I filed with two LLCs one a partnership and one an SCORP in addition to our personal taxes and my head is spinning. We purchased a commercial property for our business last year and I am beginning to understand the full value of the word depreciation.

    I also fully appreciate the notion of regulations. The City of Austin does tax STRs with what amounts to a hotel tax and the industry is regulated but in Austin we had a shortage of hotel rooms for the number of huge festivals and other events that take place in the city so the city saw them as a bonus. More recently however, as affordability slips away and STR quantity increase, the regulation has become more strict and I can imagine that will continue as more actual hotels are built. That said I can imagine an out for investors converting their STR into LTR and doing fine.

    I wonder what your opinion of places like Gatlinburg is where as many have noted STR have been a thing before it was a thing. My husband remembers staying in one in the 70's.

    Again I appreciate the dialogue thank you!

  • Investor · Menifee, CA. · Member since 2021 · 48 posts · 29 votes
    5y

    @Michael Baum I am very impressed with the time and effort you put in to researching for April! That is why I love the BP community!

    Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

  • Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2020 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    5y

    @Account Closed I'd love to hear the outcome of this! Have you followed through with an investment yet? I read this forum back when you posted it, as my husband and I were on the hunt for a STR in Canyon Lake. We, too, were originally interested in just having a second home in this area, but ultimately decided to turn that plan into a source of income. We just closed on a home in Canyon Lake, so I thought I'd follow up with you on this.

  • Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2021 · 36 posts · 28 votes
    5y

    @Taylor Holland nice! Congratulations- we closed about a week ago and are furnishing now . We plan to build some outdoor amenities like decks and do more landscaping before launching the STR. For now we are using it for the remainder of the summer and getting ready to ease into renting. Love all the wildlife out here over two days we have had bobcat, Fox and deer sightings! We are in the North side of the lake and love it. Best of luck to you!

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