New Member: Investing in VT Ski Areas

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New Member: Investing in VT Ski Areas

Stephen Fydenkevez
Ellington, CT · Member since 2015 · 7 posts · 4 votes

Hello everyone. My name is Steve fydenkevez, and my wife and I are looking to enter the world of real estate investment.  We were married recently, and when we add in our wedding gifts with what we have been saving on our own for years, we feel that we are finally ready to pull the trigger on our first property purchase.

We actually live about 90 minutes south of the ski area that we are looking to invest in, but it is an area that I am very familiar with as I have been going there my whole life. Our target purchase is a single unit in a townhome complex. These units run roughly 100k and rent for about 250$ per night, just to give a scope for our type of starter investment.

Between my wife and I, we have a grand total of 0 years in real estate investment experience, but we really believe in the area and real estate we will be investing in. I personally have dumped thousands of dollars in renting these units over the years and have seen townhomes filled on a weekly basis.

We are looking forward to communicating with many of you and learning from any and all of the experience you are willing to share with us.

Thank you for taking the time to read our intro, we look forward to speaking with you.  

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Blair Knowles
Real Estate Agent · Burlington, VT · Member since 2015 · 108 posts · 46 votes
11y

Hi Stephen! Congratulations on your decision to invest. I like your plan of investing in vacation homes. It sounds fun! Never under estimate the power of good old fashioned fun in real estate.

I have a couple questions/ideas for you. If you live 90 minutes south how will you mange the turnover? Unlike tenants on a year long lease you will be managing quite a bit of turnover on a vacation rental. Will you rent through Air BnB? Or Craigslist? Are you buying in an association that will provide cleaning services? Many of the associations in ski resorts/towns have this option especially if the unit is on the mountain/resort.  I doubt that you will want to drive 90 minutes to clean the unit every time it turns over. Especially when you get to the point when you DO have your 10 rentals across the country (I've read your profile- I like your goals). I would start by calling/emailing the different condo/townhouse associations. As them a couple of key questions. See what different associations offer. Get a feel for the differences.  If you can't get anyone at the association to be responsive you can always ask the listing agent of for sale condos/townhomes. 

ASK:

1) How many of your units can be rentals? Is there a rental cap? The LAST thing you want is to buy a unit that the association will not allow you to rent out. You probably wouldn't get to a closing without figuring that out, but it's something to keep in mind from the start. Some associations allow 30% of their units to be rented. Some allow more. Associations have rental caps to protect the owners and the resale values in the association. If an association becomes largely rented out with few owner occupants banks will not lend on properties that are for sale in that association. It becomes risky in the banks eyes. Owners suddenly own properties that no one can get financing on and that they can't sell. It's a mess. Rental caps are a good thing. If you get serious about a particular unit ask to see the associations bylaws/rules/and regulations. Along these same lines some association in ski areas restrict the number of months you can rent your unit in a year. 

2) Do you provide management/cleaning services? What percentage of my rent would you charge or is there a flat fee for each cleaning? Do I have to go through the associations property management services or could I hire someone independently?

3) Are there currently any special assessments on the complex? How are special assessments decided? --- An example of a special assessment is when the association has three buildings that all need new roofs. There is not enough money in the associations reserves (built up over time from members monthly association dues)  to pay for the repair of three roofs. The association decides all members need to pay an additional $150 a month for 6 months to pay for the repairs. You have to pay- even if they are repairing roofs that are not on your unit. 

4) Is there a/ how much is the monthly association fee? What is included in the fee? (Trash, water sewer, landscaping, outside maintenance?) 

I hope some of these thoughts help. There is a lot to look out for when you are buying into an association. I would recommend working with a local agent as well as having a real estate attorney review the financials and association docs. The upside to associations is that you will be able to leave the property and know that there is someone managing the grounds outdoor maintenance etc. 

Good Luck! 

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  • Mark Nolan
    Professional · Carlsbad, CA · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Stephen Fydenkevez

    Welcome to Bigger Pockets. BP is full of resources. You will find resources here from blogs to pod casts and forums. You can also send messages to members. This is one of my favorite features of Bigger Pockets especially for asking specific questions.

    0Reply
  • Stephen Fydenkevez
    OP
    Ellington, CT · Member since 2015 · 7 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    @Mark Nolan

    Thank you for the welcome Mark. I have been browsing the site for the last few hours and checking out some of the forums.

    @Account Closed

    Right now the focus is the Mount Snow area in West Dover. I have found listings around the 90-120k mark in 5 different townhome complexes. There are also different units within those same complexes available for rent in the 250-400$ per night range. My plan is to monitor those rental listings during the fall and winter seasons, and see which units are more consistently booked. I also may stay a night at each rental complex and get a feel listing. At this time my goal is to make the purchase in the spring.

    I do not have a lot of experience in how to go about doing this, but at 26 I do have time on my side. I do not want to rush into the investment, especially my first investment. As information and data become available I would be happy to run numbers by you and see what you think of the opportunities.

    0Reply
  • Blair Knowles
    Real Estate Agent · Burlington, VT · Member since 2015 · 108 posts · 46 votes
    11y

    Hi Stephen! Congratulations on your decision to invest. I like your plan of investing in vacation homes. It sounds fun! Never under estimate the power of good old fashioned fun in real estate.

    I have a couple questions/ideas for you. If you live 90 minutes south how will you mange the turnover? Unlike tenants on a year long lease you will be managing quite a bit of turnover on a vacation rental. Will you rent through Air BnB? Or Craigslist? Are you buying in an association that will provide cleaning services? Many of the associations in ski resorts/towns have this option especially if the unit is on the mountain/resort.  I doubt that you will want to drive 90 minutes to clean the unit every time it turns over. Especially when you get to the point when you DO have your 10 rentals across the country (I've read your profile- I like your goals). I would start by calling/emailing the different condo/townhouse associations. As them a couple of key questions. See what different associations offer. Get a feel for the differences.  If you can't get anyone at the association to be responsive you can always ask the listing agent of for sale condos/townhomes. 

    ASK:

    1) How many of your units can be rentals? Is there a rental cap? The LAST thing you want is to buy a unit that the association will not allow you to rent out. You probably wouldn't get to a closing without figuring that out, but it's something to keep in mind from the start. Some associations allow 30% of their units to be rented. Some allow more. Associations have rental caps to protect the owners and the resale values in the association. If an association becomes largely rented out with few owner occupants banks will not lend on properties that are for sale in that association. It becomes risky in the banks eyes. Owners suddenly own properties that no one can get financing on and that they can't sell. It's a mess. Rental caps are a good thing. If you get serious about a particular unit ask to see the associations bylaws/rules/and regulations. Along these same lines some association in ski areas restrict the number of months you can rent your unit in a year. 

    2) Do you provide management/cleaning services? What percentage of my rent would you charge or is there a flat fee for each cleaning? Do I have to go through the associations property management services or could I hire someone independently?

    3) Are there currently any special assessments on the complex? How are special assessments decided? --- An example of a special assessment is when the association has three buildings that all need new roofs. There is not enough money in the associations reserves (built up over time from members monthly association dues)  to pay for the repair of three roofs. The association decides all members need to pay an additional $150 a month for 6 months to pay for the repairs. You have to pay- even if they are repairing roofs that are not on your unit. 

    4) Is there a/ how much is the monthly association fee? What is included in the fee? (Trash, water sewer, landscaping, outside maintenance?) 

    I hope some of these thoughts help. There is a lot to look out for when you are buying into an association. I would recommend working with a local agent as well as having a real estate attorney review the financials and association docs. The upside to associations is that you will be able to leave the property and know that there is someone managing the grounds outdoor maintenance etc. 

    Good Luck! 

    1Reply
  • Stephen Fydenkevez
    OP
    Ellington, CT · Member since 2015 · 7 posts · 4 votes
    11y

    @Blair Knowles

    Thank you very much for the time you put into your response. To your many thoughts I have some answers and much more to think about and consider. 

    First - we have not yet decided on the unit to start our journey with so the above questions and factors are great to be aware of. We will use that information to evaluate the ideal location to start with. 

    As for what I had visioned - I would be managing the property myself from afar, while paying a local cleaning service to maintain the property. The type of cleaning service would depend on the property that is selected. What we are looking for in our first few properties - is to be in the same area (ideally same townhouse/condo complex) so the same cleaning company could be used. We will have a website that grows as our portfolio grows, and the advertising will be completely online via sites like VRBO. 

    I know how busy this will be, which is why ideally once we have 3-4 properties, the maintenance of the website, advertising, and property management will become my full time job (my wife will continue to work to provide some steady income during the transition)

    For your 4 questions - those are all excellent things to look out for and they are things I would not have thought to ask. I will make sure that all topics are covered and are part of our initial screening process for future investments.

    Thank you again for the time and thought you put into our response. It is very much appreciated. 

    0Reply
  • David Marshall
    Property Manager · VT NH, CT and MA · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    Hi Stephen,

    Did you ever find an investment property near Mount Snow or in the West Dover or Wilmington area? 

    David

    0Reply
  • Mike Mcgregor
    New Paltz, NY · Member since 2016 · 12 posts · 1 vote
    9y
    Stephen Fydenkevez did you ever find a property? I am going up to look at a few opportunities next week. Thanks!
    0Reply
  • David Marshall
    Property Manager · VT NH, CT and MA · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    If anyone is interested in a 10,000 sq.ft. mixed use property in the town of Wilmington, VT, we are looking for partners. In addition to the commercial property, it includes a 6-Bedroom ski-lodge that can sleep 24.  We can also offer 100% financing, to the right buyer, depending upon terms.  If you're forte is AirBnB & HomeAway, you'll make a killing in year #1.

    David Marshall

    0Reply
  • Jenny McClary
    Professional · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2017 · 1 post · 0 votes
    9y

    Does anyone have a recommendation for a real estate agent in southern vt? I am interested in doing something similar.

    0Reply
  • Blair Knowles
    Real Estate Agent · Burlington, VT · Member since 2015 · 108 posts · 46 votes
    9y

    @Jenny McClary -- What part of Southern Vermont?  Brenda Jones with KW Vermont is a great agent in the Bennington area. She may not want to spend her nights and weekends driving around with investors-- she has been in the business a long time (let's face it we aren't a cushy commission slam dunk) but if you tell her I sent you her way she will definitely give you an industry insider's opinion of who to work with. 

    0Reply
  • Tawny Bloom
    Investor · Burlington, VT · Member since 2014 · 28 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    When you are checking out listings make sure you are asking about all of the fees, etc.  We looked at some condos at Smuggler's Notch and even for a 1 bed condo the annual fees plus taxes totaled around $8,000-$10,000 per year.  I am not sure if all ski resorts have high fees but it is certainly something to take into consideration

    0Reply
  • Gilian GegawinPro Member
    Virtual Assistant · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 236 posts · 38 votes
    9y

    @Stephen Fydenkevez  Good work, Stephen. You got past the first big hurtle in real estate investment, signing up and reaching out in BiggerPockets. We are happy to help you in any way we can. 

    0Reply
  • Robert Jordan
    Handyman · Moretown, VT · Member since 2016 · 26 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    If anyone is looking in the Mad River Valley, it provides excellent appreciation 

    and returns on AirBnB's.  I am a Realtor in Central VT and would be happy to help out!

    Best,

    RJ

    0Reply
  • Cliff H.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Nashua, NH · Member since 2014 · 587 posts · 477 votes
    2y

    @Stephen Fydenkevez Mt Snow area being the southern-most large mountain has a saturation of rentals that drives prices down. You’ll want to do more than look at nightly rates, your most critical metric is actually occupancy rate, which the pay-for dashboards like AirDNA notoriously misrepresent. In many areas of the state you’re realistically talking about a 6 month max rental season (winter + summer) due to Vermont’s significant shoulder seasons, something I’ve shared about a bunch on other posts.   
    If you're serious about buying a property in VT for mixed personal/rental use, consider it more of an expense offset than true investment property. And do yourself a favor and join the VTSTR(Association), which tracks state and local STR regulations, which there are many. VT just passed a 3% tax on STRs, in addition to the existing 9% lodging tax and 1% local options tax, making it one of the highest taxed states for STRs.

    Vermont is also considering a state wide occupancy requirement for STR operators which, if passed, would decimate the market. That's something VTSTRA is understandably very active in monitoring, but they can only do so much.

    https://legislature.vermont.gov/Documents/2024/Docs/BILLS/H-...

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