Hello to Bigger Pockets and Goodbye to the Rat Race!

Hello to Bigger Pockets and Goodbye to the Rat Race!

Smithfield, RI · Member since 2016 · 4 posts · 6 votes

Good afternoon everyone,

After trolling for the last 12 months on the forum I have decided to post - why? Because action doesn't occur without interaction. I have made a self-proclamation that 2017 will be the year I focus on wealth production versus wealth management.

I differentiate the two because with the 401(k)'s and the IRA's we are too focused on making incremental investments into these vehicles as a means of gaining wealth; in reality these vehicles do a great job at maintaining wealth not so much a good job at building/creating wealth.

Here's some background on why I feel this way:

  • I am 30
  • I make ~$400K/yr
  • I max out my 401(k)
  • I max out my IRA (via a back door-Roth)
  • I have a general investment account where I stash 10% of my income
  • No kids, recently married, not tax breaks (but am cash-flowing a 529 plan)
  • No debt

In short - even though this sounds good, and I'm in a "good" position financially, I'm not getting rich. And sadly enough this level of savings might not allow me to retire at the same level of lifestyle. I live in an extremely expensive location in Connecticut to support my daily commute to Manhattan.

I've binged 2017 (and 2 hour commutes on the train) reading Dave Ramsey, Millionaire Fastlane, Rich Dad, Poor Dad and others; it's time to start engaging with like-minded folks and joining in on the conversation.

~Steve

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Most Popular Reply

Buy and Hold Investor · Cranston, RI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y

Steve, welcome to Bigger Pockets!

Besides the great resources you've already been reading, for a different perspective you might check out Mr. Money Mustache (mrmoneymustache.com).

I'm not 100% in MMM's camp either but it's a worthwhile alternative viewpoint to consider.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor/Realtor · Hoover, AL · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 459 votes
    9y

    Welcome @Steven Johnson...RE is the way to Go!  

  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    @Steven Johnson , did you type your earnings correctly? If so, what are you spending that on that you're not getting rich?!?

    You say you live in an extremely expensive location in CT. I don't know the east coast, but are there any other less expensive living options? 

    You don't say what you do, could you transfer to another part of the US where living expenses aren't so much? (I know this isn't always possible.)

  • Real Estate Agent · Fairfield, CT · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 10 votes
    9y

    Welcome Steve and congrats on taking the first step to action. I would recommend a monthly meet up in Fairfield run by Jon Makovsky (active contributor here) where you can meet many like minded folks, some highly experienced and others starting out like yourself.

  • Smithfield, RI · Member since 2016 · 4 posts · 6 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Mindy Jensen:

    @Steven Johnson , did you type your earnings correctly? If so, what are you spending that on that you're not getting rich?!?

    You say you live in an extremely expensive location in CT. I don't know the east coast, but are there any other less expensive living options? 

    You don't say what you do, could you transfer to another part of the US where living expenses aren't so much? (I know this isn't always possible.)

     Hi Mindy, yes I typed it correctly. What have I been spending my money on? Outside of housing and my 35% income tax, maxing out retirement vehicles, it has been debt payoff (~150K mostly due to my student loans from my Doctorate and my wife's Masters). 

    Otherwise the remainder has gone to cash savings. 

    In 2015 I moved from Rhode Island to Connecticut for a career bump; I am in the Cybersecurity industry and Manhattan (or the West Coast) is hot at the moment.

  • Buy and Hold Investor · Cranston, RI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Steve, welcome to Bigger Pockets!

    Besides the great resources you've already been reading, for a different perspective you might check out Mr. Money Mustache (mrmoneymustache.com).

    I'm not 100% in MMM's camp either but it's a worthwhile alternative viewpoint to consider.

  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    Yeah, that income tax is high for sure. Do you have an accountant to help minimize your tax obligation?

    I second what @Anthony Thompson said about MMM. He was instrumental in getting me on the right path toward financial freedom/independence. I would not be where I am today without having read his blog.

    He is extremely hardcore about frugality, but his view makes a lot of sense.

  • Investor · NEWTOWN, CT · Member since 2016 · 80 posts · 23 votes
    9y

    Welcome Aboard Steve!

    I would second what @Paul Kaflinski said above. Check out the Fairfield BP meetup. It's generally held the last Wednesday of the month at Anna Liffey's on the Post Rd in Fairfield. It's a great group of people. As Paul also mentioned, reach out to @Jonathan Makovsky for confirmation of the next date and time. 

    Hope to see you there.

    And which area of real estate investing interests you? 

    -Stephen

  • Smithfield, RI · Member since 2016 · 4 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    Thanks all for pointing me in the direction of some undiscovered resources.

    - Also looks like we have a pretty well represented community of folks from Fairfield County, CT. I will ping you directly for some more specifics.

    ~ Steve

  • Real Estate Agent · Stamford, CT · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 2 votes
    9y
    Steven Johnson Welcomes me to BB! I'm an investor and a realtor based in Stamford CT. Please feel free to reach out. Gene
  • Real Estate Agent · Stamford, CT · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 2 votes
    9y
    Sorry, autocorrect sometimes is killing us :) "Welcome you..."
  • Rick SantasierePro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Granby, CT · Member since 2015 · 695 posts · 317 votes
    9y

    @Steven Johnson. Welcome to BP. I love your post. I have to be honest (the wanta be investment guru in me), and question how can you have a ROTH IRA when your earnings exceed the amount where you are still allowed to contribute after tax dollars. However you are doing it, fantastic! If you ever end up looking to find investment properties in northern, eastern or middle of CT, feel free to reach out. I am an active investor, and always love connecting with new people over coffee or even a quick phone chat. PM me any time. Again, welcome. and I hope to get the opportunity to meet you soon!

  • Rental Property Investor · Carlisle, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 543 votes
    9y

    @Steven Johnson, welcome to the forums.  Networking here is a great way to go and you are sure to continue to learn each day.  Good luck!

  • CPA · New York, NY · Member since 2016 · 203 posts · 132 votes
    9y
    Steven Johnson I think you'll find BP to be an extremely valuable resource. Good luck!
  • Rich N.Pro Member
    Investor · Haverhill, MA · Member since 2015 · 761 posts · 328 votes
    9y

    @Steven Johnson

    Welcome to Bigger Pockets.  With all that travel time, I am surprise no one suggested you check out all the podcasts on this site !

    With your high income, you might want to look into setting up a LLC or Trust to protect your personal assets.

  • Investor · Stamford, CT · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 16 votes
    9y
    Rick Santasiere it's called a back door roth. Basically anyone can elect to convert all or a portion of a traditional IRA(pretax money) into a Roth. The catch is you'll have to pay income tax on the amount you've converted. And there are no income limits to do the conversion. So someone over the income limit could fund a traditional IRA, then do the conversion each year and it would be the same net outcome as funding a roth. One other complication is if you have a combination of rollover/traditional IRA funds and a non deductible IRA, you can't choose which funds to convert but have to do the conversion evenly across the funds. from a tax perspective I think it can turn into a drag. I have a few friends who do non deductible IRAs but don't quite grasp the minimal benefit over a taxable brokerage account and the added complexity of tax accounting IMO. All that said, I'm not a financial advisor or tax accountant, just what I've learned from reading and my own tax planning.
  • Rick SantasierePro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Granby, CT · Member since 2015 · 695 posts · 317 votes
    9y

    @Benjamin C.thanks for the explanation.  I too have a few "back-door roths" for my wife and I from our prior corporate jobs, but never earned nearly enough $$ to be even close to Roth Income limits. I did not realize you could convert (as we did as well, and paid the taxes), while still being in that income bracket.  So would that mean that a person who made $1 mil/year with a few million in 401k balance, could in essence, leave their job (because I believe you need to to release 401K funds) then convert to roth, pay the taxes and earn tax free until retirement?  If that's the case, that is excellent. Although, there might be a more prudent approach (again, I am not an economist/advisor by any means:)

  • Investor · Stamford, CT · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 16 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Rick Santasiere:

    @Benjamin C.thanks for the explanation.  I too have a few "back-door roths" for my wife and I from our prior corporate jobs, but never earned nearly enough $$ to be even close to Roth Income limits. I did not realize you could convert (as we did as well, and paid the taxes), while still being in that income bracket.  So would that mean that a person who made $1 mil/year with a few million in 401k balance, could in essence, leave their job (because I believe you need to to release 401K funds) then convert to roth, pay the taxes and earn tax free until retirement?  If that's the case, that is excellent. Although, there might be a more prudent approach (again, I am not an economist/advisor by any means:)

     Hi Rick,

    Yes, basically anyone can do it, even your $1M/yr income example. But a few things to consider. 

    -Both a Roth and a traditional IRA/401k have tax advantages. In a hypothecatal example, if you knew for sure that your tax rate would be the same now and in retirement, and you put the exact same $s in and did the same withdrawal schedule, you'd wind up with the exact same after tax result from both accounts. So what matters is your own personal situation of what you think your marginal tax rate will be down the road vs what you pay now. Also a conservation is what you think tax rates will do in the fiture(have your crystal ball handy)

    - The are some differences in the withdrawal requirements. The traditional IRA/401k has annual mandatory withdrawals once you hit a certain age. The Roth doesn't have that. So for example if you were in you 70s and one year decided to sell your business and earned a big payday, with a Roth you could simply not withdraw that year and not have to pay the top marginal tax rate, but with a traditional IRA/401k you'd have to take that wothdrawal and pay the higher tax rate.

    So there are a few considerations on which is the optimal solution to minimize your taxes/maximize your after tax return. And of course there is no way to know for sure. 

    Personally my plan is to have about an even split between the two account types to allow me flexiblilty on withdrawals and hedge my bets a bit on future tax rates.

  • Rick SantasierePro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Granby, CT · Member since 2015 · 695 posts · 317 votes
    9y

    Ok.  My tax bracket and personal income and business revenue will be exponentially higher when I am ready to retire, so it actually makes more sense (for me) to sock away post tax dollars.  However, you make a great point, in that I (as a business owner) can also sock away $50k (pre-tax) per year based on what my CPA mentioned to me as well. The split solution, might be the best way, like you said for yourself. Thank you for the education. I know a little about investments from my corporate gig, but never really took to becoming an expert (I actually find it a bit boring), due to my passion for real estate.

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