Complete newbie from Gilbert, AZ

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Complete newbie from Gilbert, AZ

Kurt Granroth
Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2017 · 69 posts · 64 votes

Hey y'all.  I'm Kurt and boy do I understand the phrase "you don't know what you don't know" because, well, I know so vanishingly little about real estate investing that pretty much everything is a recursive "don't know".  Gotta start somewhere, though!

I've lived in Gilbert, AZ (suburb of Phoenix, in its East Valley) for about 20 years and while I've owned a few homes as primary residences (and truly own my current mortgage-free home), I've never really considered investing in real estate in any real way until very recently.

My wife and I are both software engineers and have been blessed with notably high income as a result.  We got enamored by the FI/RE philosophy (Financial Independence / Retire Early) a few years ago and have committed to investing some 75% of our net income into the stock market.  The goal was to get to roughly $1.5M and then retire, since all of the math says that we could safely withdraw (the SWR) 4% of our investment pot every year ($60k a year) and be able to sustain that indefinitely.  We're about 75% of the way there, with $1M already working for us.

But even though the math all works out and all of the simulations I run seem solidly in my favor, I'm still very concerned about having all of my money in a single basket.  Yes, the stocks are thoroughly diversified... but the stock and bond markets still feel like one entity to me.  That's why I (very) recently started eying the possibility of diversifying even more dramatically by also investing in real estate!

I am a pretty handy guy.  I've built an addition to my home (everything but plumbing and concrete-work); a garage (sans concrete); and a home theater (everything).  Plus, I have a DIY YouTube channel ("granworks").  All that to say that it may seem like the Flipping option would be a good fit, since I'm confident I could remodel any part of a house.  But... there are a lot of people flipping homes in the Phoenix area and I'm just not sure I'm aggressive enough to compete in a market like that.

So what I'm mostly eying to start is the Buy-and-Hold model.  Maybe get some mildly distressed properties and then rent them out?

I don't have dreams of riches or anything resembling that.  My tentative goal is to be able to sustainably earn $2k-$5k net a month from whatever real estate investments I have.  So what will it take to do that?  I have no idea.  See above for the "vanishingly little" that I know.  Could I get there by investing just $250k of capital?  Would it take a lot more than that?  I guess I'll find out.

That's where I'm at.  Just starting my real estate journey and learning something literally every day.  Glad to be here to learn from y'all!

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James C.
Rockledge, FL · Member since 2016 · 493 posts · 427 votes
8y

Kurt,

Since you are already into S&B, you can very easily think of the value of real estate as the sum of the discounted cash flows at your reinvestment rate (IRR/MIRR). Buy and Hold real estate works out akin to the bond market.

How you want to do this depends on if you are levering, or paying all cash.  Your best Cash on Cash returns come when your levered to the hilt, but that comes at the cost of cashflow and increased risk. Paying all cash reduces your cash on cash return, but provides excellent cashflow and minimal risk of loss. Insurance offloads natural risk to 3rd parties.

For investment properties banks usually require 20 to 30% down. which protects their risk of loss. Hard money lenders, whose only recourse is the properties typically work in the 30 to 50+% down range.

The hard part will be deciding where you are comfortable with the risk vs. return curve. If I am personally signing on a note, I am comfortable in the 50% to 80% levered position, and make sure that I have enough positive cash flow (cash on cash return) to make it worth my effort, depending on property type/location etc. I don't ever envision running non-levered properties, unless it becomes an advantage to do so. 

Today, cap rates (Return on 100% investment equivalent rates) are being compressed to below 6% (I've seen some negative cap rates), and at that level, good corporate paper is getting to be a better deal. If I were to diversify, I would look at figuring a 6% return on my invested cash, and make my cash investment decisions from there. Again, it's always a levered vs. un-levered decision. If you are levered, it's an arbitrage play between your income from the asset and the payout on the leverage plus expenses of running the asset. 

If you are looking for more of a passive income stream, purchasing underlying performing mortgages is easier (not so hands on, albeit tougher to find good ones), and if purchased correctly, they produce better returns. I'd stay away from NPN's for passive income, as they can be management intensive, and really good portfolios are hard to find. Another avenue might be becoming a hard money lender, but again, that space is fairly crowded, and the availability of Fix/Flip deals that make sense is being reduced. Private lending is another avenue, but you have to know your underlying assets, and borrower, and there is an increased risk of loss, since many of those deals are pure equity plays, and you are completely passive in the deal. Other options include JV/Syndication or partnerships, but again, that is similar to a REIT, so you are back in the S&B space.

Some good (but older, with some outdated information, mostly on taxes and secondary market stuff) books on the subject include (all available on Open Library for FREE!):

Real Estate Finance Theory and Practice (I have the 3rd edition) Clauretie, Terrence M.

Real estate investment strategy - Seldin, Maury

Real estate investor's deskbook - Arnold, Alvin L (one of my favorites, very technical)

Sensible finance techniques for Real Estate - Reed, John T

Successful real estate investing in a Boom or Bust Market - Loftis, Larry B

The Complete Guide to Real Estate Finance for Investment Properties - Burges, Steve

Hope that helps. Let me know if you have questions, or need more information.

Good Luck!

Jim

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  • James C.
    Rockledge, FL · Member since 2016 · 493 posts · 427 votes
    8y

    Kurt,

    Since you are already into S&B, you can very easily think of the value of real estate as the sum of the discounted cash flows at your reinvestment rate (IRR/MIRR). Buy and Hold real estate works out akin to the bond market.

    How you want to do this depends on if you are levering, or paying all cash.  Your best Cash on Cash returns come when your levered to the hilt, but that comes at the cost of cashflow and increased risk. Paying all cash reduces your cash on cash return, but provides excellent cashflow and minimal risk of loss. Insurance offloads natural risk to 3rd parties.

    For investment properties banks usually require 20 to 30% down. which protects their risk of loss. Hard money lenders, whose only recourse is the properties typically work in the 30 to 50+% down range.

    The hard part will be deciding where you are comfortable with the risk vs. return curve. If I am personally signing on a note, I am comfortable in the 50% to 80% levered position, and make sure that I have enough positive cash flow (cash on cash return) to make it worth my effort, depending on property type/location etc. I don't ever envision running non-levered properties, unless it becomes an advantage to do so. 

    Today, cap rates (Return on 100% investment equivalent rates) are being compressed to below 6% (I've seen some negative cap rates), and at that level, good corporate paper is getting to be a better deal. If I were to diversify, I would look at figuring a 6% return on my invested cash, and make my cash investment decisions from there. Again, it's always a levered vs. un-levered decision. If you are levered, it's an arbitrage play between your income from the asset and the payout on the leverage plus expenses of running the asset. 

    If you are looking for more of a passive income stream, purchasing underlying performing mortgages is easier (not so hands on, albeit tougher to find good ones), and if purchased correctly, they produce better returns. I'd stay away from NPN's for passive income, as they can be management intensive, and really good portfolios are hard to find. Another avenue might be becoming a hard money lender, but again, that space is fairly crowded, and the availability of Fix/Flip deals that make sense is being reduced. Private lending is another avenue, but you have to know your underlying assets, and borrower, and there is an increased risk of loss, since many of those deals are pure equity plays, and you are completely passive in the deal. Other options include JV/Syndication or partnerships, but again, that is similar to a REIT, so you are back in the S&B space.

    Some good (but older, with some outdated information, mostly on taxes and secondary market stuff) books on the subject include (all available on Open Library for FREE!):

    Real Estate Finance Theory and Practice (I have the 3rd edition) Clauretie, Terrence M.

    Real estate investment strategy - Seldin, Maury

    Real estate investor's deskbook - Arnold, Alvin L (one of my favorites, very technical)

    Sensible finance techniques for Real Estate - Reed, John T

    Successful real estate investing in a Boom or Bust Market - Loftis, Larry B

    The Complete Guide to Real Estate Finance for Investment Properties - Burges, Steve

    Hope that helps. Let me know if you have questions, or need more information.

    Good Luck!

    Jim

    2Reply
  • Tom Ott
    Equity Raiser and Turnkey Provider · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Kurt Granroth:

    Hey y'all.  I'm Kurt and boy do I understand the phrase "you don't know what you don't know" because, well, I know so vanishingly little about real estate investing that pretty much everything is a recursive "don't know".  Gotta start somewhere, though!

    I've lived in Gilbert, AZ (suburb of Phoenix, in its East Valley) for about 20 years and while I've owned a few homes as primary residences (and truly own my current mortgage-free home), I've never really considered investing in real estate in any real way until very recently.

    My wife and I are both software engineers and have been blessed with notably high income as a result.  We got enamored by the FI/RE philosophy (Financial Independence / Retire Early) a few years ago and have committed to investing some 75% of our net income into the stock market.  The goal was to get to roughly $1.5M and then retire, since all of the math says that we could safely withdraw (the SWR) 4% of our investment pot every year ($60k a year) and be able to sustain that indefinitely.  We're about 75% of the way there, with $1M already working for us.

    But even though the math all works out and all of the simulations I run seem solidly in my favor, I'm still very concerned about having all of my money in a single basket.  Yes, the stocks are thoroughly diversified... but the stock and bond markets still feel like one entity to me.  That's why I (very) recently started eying the possibility of diversifying even more dramatically by also investing in real estate!

    I am a pretty handy guy.  I've built an addition to my home (everything but plumbing and concrete-work); a garage (sans concrete); and a home theater (everything).  Plus, I have a DIY YouTube channel ("granworks").  All that to say that it may seem like the Flipping option would be a good fit, since I'm confident I could remodel any part of a house.  But... there are a lot of people flipping homes in the Phoenix area and I'm just not sure I'm aggressive enough to compete in a market like that.

    So what I'm mostly eying to start is the Buy-and-Hold model.  Maybe get some mildly distressed properties and then rent them out?

    I don't have dreams of riches or anything resembling that.  My tentative goal is to be able to sustainably earn $2k-$5k net a month from whatever real estate investments I have.  So what will it take to do that?  I have no idea.  See above for the "vanishingly little" that I know.  Could I get there by investing just $250k of capital?  Would it take a lot more than that?  I guess I'll find out.

    That's where I'm at.  Just starting my real estate journey and learning something literally every day.  Glad to be here to learn from y'all!

     Hello and welcome! Best of luck to you!

    0Reply
  • Justin Owens
    Real Estate Agent · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 220 posts · 122 votes
    8y
    Welcome @Kurt Granroth. Real estate isn't a zero sum game or competition. There are lots of deals they just take a bit of work. For each of the 5 properties in our area that we bought this year (our first as active investors) there have only been a few "competitors". It can be done. Best of luck!
    1Reply
  • Ryan Swan
    Real Estate Agent · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2012 · 640 posts · 457 votes
    8y

    @Kurt Granroth I like the control that comes with investing in real estate vs the equity markets.

    For the rentals I own, I know exactly what the expenses are (barring unforeseen repairs/capex of course), I know what the rent income is, I know what the potential rent is with certain upgrades, and I know what the property could sell for should I need to liquidate. Sure I can do my homework on a stock/ETF/mutual fund, but I still never fully understand exactly what my money is doing or how it's going to grow. 

    If you're still working full time in software development, then I would recommend a buy and hold strategy vs flipping. Contrary to what the gurus will tell you, I believe you need to do flipping full time to be successful.  Buy and hold will also offer that predicable cash flow that you're looking for now and into retirement. 

    1Reply
  • Doug McVinuaPro Member
    Property Manager · Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2016 · 608 posts · 426 votes
    8y

    @Kurt Granroth Welcome to BP and all that it offers from a Gilbert, AZ based Broker. Love Gilbert, AZ, great place to live!

    Buy and Hold opportunities exist and I would be glad to explore some of the different types and areas of the east valley that might be a fit for you. The skills you have will be great and offer you an advantage.

    BTW: Love the "You don't know what you don't know", one of my favorites also!

    [email protected]602-751-7577
    1Reply
  • Kurt Granroth
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2017 · 69 posts · 64 votes
    8y

    @James C. - thank you for the wonderfully thought-provoking post!  I'll be digesting this for awhile.

    The question on whether to use my cash as seed capital vs direct cash is one that will take a lot more reading on my part, plus likely copious amounts of math.  I'm unlikely to convince my wife to allow me to invest more than $250k -- if I leveraged that assuming 25% down, then I have the potential buying power of $1M.  That could open up the possibility of maybe 5-8 homes.  The higher my cash position, the fewer the number of potential homes.  A 100% cash vesting could result in investing in just one home in my local market.  But much higher return on that one home compared to any individual home in a leveraged set.  Lots to think about.

    I hadn't considered the option of purchasing performing mortgages. That's... interesting, and so far well out of my sphere of knowledge. Working with a JV or partnership is also mostly just words to me at this very early stage. I was invested in REITs a couple of years ago but wasn't happy with the performance and ended up selling them at a loss for a little tax harvesting.

    Anyway, thank you again!  That's all super helpful.

    0Reply
  • Kurt Granroth
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2017 · 69 posts · 64 votes
    8y

    @Justin Owens - Thank you!  I suppose my view of the Fix/Flip market being super competitive is colored by the mainstream news stories talking about how "hot" the flipping market is in Phoenix, and even seeing TV shows featuring some of the locals.  I got the distinct impression that any reasonably good distressed deal would be snapped up by a pro likely before I would even get a chance to see it.

    But my ignorance in this topic is literally boundless at the moment, so I'm very happy to hear that maybe there's more room for the little guy than I thought!

    Were your 5 investment properties in the East Valley?

    0Reply
  • Kurt Granroth
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2017 · 69 posts · 64 votes
    8y

    @Doug McVinua - Thank you!  Are there many East Valley opportunities?  My assumptions going on (with no facts to back any of them up) was that I might need to concentrate on South Phoenix or some parts of West Valley.  A quick look into Gilbert real estate suggested to me that prices are crazy high, even for the smaller and older properties.  Maybe Mesa?

    0Reply
  • Doug McVinuaPro Member
    Property Manager · Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2016 · 608 posts · 426 votes
    8y

    @Kurt Granroth You are correct that Gilbert is generally hard to make the numbers work but the surrounding areas still offer opportunity and don't require you drive an hour or more just to do a quick checkup.

    Let's connect and I can send you a few that have potential.

    [email protected]602-751-7577
    0Reply
  • Justin Owens
    Real Estate Agent · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 220 posts · 122 votes
    8y
    @Kurt Granroth there is definitely room for the little guy. I am new myself and before this year I hadn't bought an investment property for several years. Of the five we have purchased so far, 3 are in Mesa, one in Chandler and 1 in San Tan Valley. We kept one in Mesa and San Tan Valley as rentals, flipped one in Chandler and are currently rehabbing 2 in Mesa as flips. 3 we got from wholesalers and 2 from MLS. These aren't $80k per deal flips but we are making money, learning the process, and vetting contractors. I'm happy to share what little I have learned along the way, unfortunately I haven't had the time to blog about everything here on BP.
    1Reply
  • Jennifer Conti
    Chandler, AZ · Member since 2017 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    @Justin Owens how is your current property in San Tan Valley doing? I'm looking at buying my first buy and hold in the area and after talking to a few property management companies, San Tan Valley seems like a prime place to buy (prices still low enough to cash flow, low vacancy rates). Curious on your thoughts.

    0Reply
  • Justin Owens
    Real Estate Agent · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 220 posts · 122 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Jennifer Conti:

    @Justin Owens how is your current property in San Tan Valley doing? I'm looking at buying my first buy and hold in the area and after talking to a few property management companies, San Tan Valley seems like a prime place to buy (prices still low enough to cash flow, low vacancy rates). Curious on your thoughts.

    Since we purchased in February 2017 we have some nice  appreciation in value, not sure that it helps someone buying now. We are leery of Johnson Utilities as they have struggled to provide good customer service at a reasonable rate but our tenants pay for water themselves. But we fear people not wanting to deal with them. We had a lot of demand when filling the unit after a light rehab in March/April.

    0Reply
  • Doug McVinuaPro Member
    Property Manager · Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2016 · 608 posts · 426 votes
    8y

    @Jennifer Conti We manage a number of rentals in San Tan Valley and they are performing very well. Vacancies are low and demand is always high when one turns over. 

    Many of your tenants have also renewed and that really improves the numbers for a property when turnover is reduced.

    [email protected]602-751-7577
    0Reply
  • Scott KronePro Member
    Investor · Northbrook, IL · Member since 2017 · 352 posts · 295 votes
    8y

    @Kurt Granroth  It appears you are quite knowledgeable to the pros and cons of stock market.  There are ways to use real estate as an option/put on the "market".  With the funds you are willing to commit, it should allow you the flexibility beyond just rental income single family homes to invest in real estate.  As with your stock portfolio, I would encourage you to consider your goals - growth, income, hedge (diversity), how much involvement you wish to have (passive investment verse active), etc.  Based upon those goals, invest your designated amount accordingly.  

    Whether in PHX (we used to own property in Paradise Valley) and my associate grew up in PHX, factor into your decision where the market is in its cycle - similar to stocks. 

    0Reply
  • Kurt Granroth
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2017 · 69 posts · 64 votes
    8y

    @Scott Krone  Oh, I'm not familiar with investing in real estate in a stock/options market -- my knowledge of investing at that level stops largely at REITs.  REITs are just a little too close to classic mutual funds for my comfort.  I'm approaching investing in real estate almost exclusively from a diversification point of view.  That is, if the stock market tanks again, I'd like to have an alternate source of income that is largely independent of that.  Direct rental properties seem to fit that bill since everybody still needs a place to live and rentals (if not the rates) will tend to increase, if anything.  But like I said, I know essentially nothing about real estate investing via options or puts so don't know how that would play into things!

    More food for thought!

    0Reply
  • Scott KronePro Member
    Investor · Northbrook, IL · Member since 2017 · 352 posts · 295 votes
    8y

    @Kurt Granroth - Sorry for the confusion. REIT's are certainly one option, but not what I was solely referring to. For instance:

    Turn Key is a major topic on BP.  As you pointed out, you can leverage $250k to increase your portfolio value to $1.0m.  It will also increase your cost, and lower your cash flow.  Most Turn Keys are viewed as passive income (blue chip stock).  Major market changes will impact them - ie the last real estate crash in PHX where homes were renting for less than apartments. 

    @Sabrina Brown

    Apartments - Blue Chip hedge.  These can produce both cash flow as well as appreciation, provide you with a bit more diversity by having unit types, and economy of scale.  Harder to get into, I would suggest having a property manager (portfolio manager).  

    @John Casmon 

    @Vinney Chopra

    Notes:   Lower yield ie Bond.  Consistent performance less management.  There are companies that manage these transactions.  They are to preserve income and grow it at a more conservative rate.  I have meet some great BP people who do this.

    @Dave Van Horn

    For us, we view our product in a similar fashion.  We convert empty/non performing buildings into self storage.  It is a retail business that thrives in both a down market (put) as well as a growth market (option).  We gain both passive income and appreciation (Growth Fund).    For us we view our product as a Growth Stock with Options and Puts..   Typically, we increase the value of the asset by 2x.   Another way we see it as a stock option is we structure our deals with syndication.  Our investors can hedge their investment over multiple asset classes by not having to incur the entire investment (same can be said about apartments - but we don't have toilets or calls in the middle of the night!)  Much lower cost basis than apartments.  Big apartments (600 apartments) could cost $25m+.  We can own/operate 600 lockers for $7m, and generate very healthy returns at a fraction of the cost.  Less risk.

    What I was suggesting was first determine your strategy, and then study the different markets to insure your investment class is at the right time for buying. For instance, I hear the CAP rates of apartments in CA, and I would be selling, not buying if I was in that market. There are charts and data for each sales market be it homes, rentals, apartments, and even self storage! Many in the CA market are buying Turn Key in the Midwest due to lower costs. We base our entire model off of demographics and data. Just like analyzing stocks, we study demographics to determine our buying and selling strategies.

    Hope this clarifies my point.  It may require a bit more due diligence, but hopefully keep you on your financial track.  Worst case, some people to reach out to and learn more about the different markets.  

    1Reply
  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    @Kurt Granroth welcome to BiggerPockets.  It is a great site to learn from and connect with other investors.  I have probably met with 40-50 people that I have met through BiggerPockets and there are really quality, helpful people to get to know.

    I am an active investor in the East Valley.  

    In your post you mentioned wanting to diversify into different markets. With 250k you could easily get between 2k and 2.5k real return very passively (without paying any of the fees associated with the the stock market). The return could go up depending on the level of activity you want to put into to it.  

    I work in my career (child and family therapist) full time but I also do flips and buy and holds.  In order for me to do all of that I have a team and a system to do most of the work for me.

    I don't sell any education program but we have partnered with a few new investors who want to learn how to flip properties or do buy and holds or who just want to make a passive 11-12% APR return on the money and it has worked out really well over the past few years.

    Anyway, welcome to the BP community, I hope you stick around and get to know the local investors and take advantage of the free education through the podcasts.

    480-206-1209Podcast Guest on Show #287
    1Reply
  • John CasmonPro Member
    Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Kurt Granroth Congrats on exploring alternatives to the stock market. As software engineers you and your wife are probably paying a lot in taxes. One of the biggest advantages of multifamily apartments is the tax benefits, so in addition to making a return on your after tax dollars, you can also lower your taxable amount. It's the reason most wealthy people hold real estate in their portfolio in some capacity. You can hire property management to oversee the property, but will still need to "manage" the asset yourself. Even better if you're only interested in the benefits is to invest passively with a partner or through a syndication.

    0Reply
  • Kurt Granroth
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2017 · 69 posts · 64 votes
    8y

    @John Casmon - You are absolutely right about the staggeringly high taxes we pay!  I hadn't thought of real estate investing in terms of taxes, though, since my understanding of any tax benefits are limited to deductions on primary home mortgage interest.  What tax benefits are available on multifamily apartments?  That sounds extremely interesting!

    0Reply
  • John CasmonPro Member
    Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Kurt Granroth in short the answer is depreciation. Here's a BP article that dives into depreciation and cost-segregation - https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/large-multifamily-tax-benefit/ You need to find a RE tax strategist who can help you KEEP most of your money. It's great to make money in stocks, but passive real estate income is taxed at a lower bracket and when coupled with depreciation, can actually lower your taxable amount. There's more to it than just buying property and collecting rent. People like @Amanda Han and @Linda Weygant can help you with more tax strategies
    1Reply
  • Odie Ayaga
    Specialist · Delran, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 951 votes
    8y

    Welcome @Kurt Granroth! To echo some of the statements here, considering your position with the perspective of where I'm currently at, note investing (investing in mortgages) is a nice way to get into investing with sizable (one might say...bigger?) pockets. It can allow you to diversify into a greater volume of assets than using the same amount to purchase a rental property and without having to manage tenants. I'm currently looking to JV with a partner on a note to get my feet wet. The nice thing about it is you can JV on a note entirely passively (provided you vet the investor) or do so in a capacity to learn to be able to invest in your own notes, though be forewarned, investing in non-performing notes can be much more of an active endeavor.

    0Reply
  • Matt Motil
    Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 880 votes
    8y

    Welcome @Kurt Granroth buy and hold is the way to go. Also, sounds like accomplishable goals. Best of luck

    0Reply
  • Kurt Granroth
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2017 · 69 posts · 64 votes
    8y

    Thanks, @Odie Ayaga - investing in notes is near the top of my education queue at the moment since it looks like it might be one of the mostly-passive REI types that could achieve the revenue I'm hoping for. I would need to get past the mental block of the entire concept of note investing being similar to the tranches that played such a big part of the 2008 crash. I know they aren't the same -- but man, they feel so similar. BTW, were did you find a JV to partner with?

    Thanks, @Matt Motil - I am actually getting increasingly disheartened about using traditional buy and hold to accomplish my goals.  Quite a few examples on BP seem to suggest that the $100/unit/mo net is a reasonable estimate.  At that rate, I'd need 20 homes to meet even my minimum monthly net.  Gak.

    0Reply
  • Odie Ayaga
    Specialist · Delran, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 951 votes
    8y

    Found her right here on BP. Shoutout to @Gail Greenberg! I was already looking to reach out when @Eric Hyde shared his positive reviews of her. I'd endorse both as great potential first JV partners.

    1Reply
  • Matt Motil
    Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 880 votes
    8y

    Thanks, @Matt Motil - I am actually getting increasingly disheartened about using traditional buy and hold to accomplish my goals.  Quite a few examples on BP seem to suggest that the $100/unit/mo net is a reasonable estimate.  At that rate, I'd need 20 homes to meet even my minimum monthly net.  Gak.

     I’ve closed on 4 more units this week, 100% with other people’s money. Think bigger. 20 units is 2-3 months worth of investing when you get things rolling. 

    0Reply
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