Starting my real estate investing journey - NY

Starting my real estate investing journey - NY

New to Real Estate · Pleasantville, NY · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 2 votes

Hello BP.  I am new to real estate investing, but hoping to start by generating some cash flow this year in order to supplement my current income.  I am open to areas and ideas, but leaning towards multifamily for now.  I am also interested in crowdfunding/syndicates.

A bit about myself: 38yo, Currently work full time in NYC, living in Westchester County, NY.  Married, father of two young boys.  Looking to start investing as a way to generate semi-passive income in order to increase my quality of life and spend some more time with my family.  I am open to investing anywhere where it makes sense.

I look forward to learning and working with you all

ac

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Investor · Front Royal, VA · Member since 2013 · 586 posts · 418 votes
7y

@Adam Celentano sounds like you and I have a lot in common! Two little boys over here too and I love spending more time with them. 


Syndications are (in my biased opinion) the best source for passive income. You get to take full advantage of the tax benefits and it is fairly passive. I recommend all limited partners in a syndication do full due diligence on the property, sponsor, and the market before investing and then once invested, carefully review your quarterly or monthly reports to make sure everything is on track. 

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  • Marlon FongPro Member
    BiggerPockets Support · Bridge City, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 367 votes
    7y

    Welcome to the BiggerPockets family! You came to the right place to learn all about real estate investing! 

    Here are some recommendations for you:

    Find and connect with other BP members that are in your area: http://www.biggerpockets.com/meet

    Set up keyword alerts to be notified of the topics that interest you: http://www.biggerpockets.com/alerts

    Read Beginner’s Guide: http://www.biggerpockets.com/real-estate-investing

    Check out BP Podcasts: http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/category/p...

    BiggerPockets
  • Member since 2018 · 45 posts · 12 votes
    7y

    hey Adam I'm a broker in Westchester and have the same interests and would be happy to connect and discuss and see if I can help you out in any way. I'm very familiar with the Westchester Market pretty much across-the-board and work with several investors in the area, what's the best way to get in touch with you?

  • Real Estate Agent · Tarrytown, NY · Member since 2016 · 149 posts · 63 votes
    7y

    Hey Adam, if you have a good job, plan to keep it and aren't particularly interested in swinging a hammer... sounds like syndication / private lending may be a good option to get some passive income. 

    Are you interested in renovating / managing rental properties?

  • New to Real Estate · Pleasantville, NY · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Marlon Fong: thanks for the advice.  Love the podcast, that is what drew me onto the site.

  • Specialist · Long Island ny · Member since 2017 · 14 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    @Adam Celentano wholesaler on Long Island here! Let me know if you need anything

  • New to Real Estate · Pleasantville, NY · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Francis Morris: nice to meet you, DM me and we can setup a time to chat.

  • New to Real Estate · Pleasantville, NY · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @John Bucci: thanks, this is great advice.  I do have a good job, but the quality of life that comes along with it is not great, so I would love to transition to having my money work for me, rather than trading my time for money at some point.

    I have invested a bit in some debt deals on crowdfunding platforms, and recently invested in a HML fund. I really do like the idea of syndication, and am trying to gain confidence in vetting equity deals. That said, I also do like the idea of being a bit more in control, being able to learn a bit more on my own, and using some leverage from the bank to invest.

    I am interested in renovating/managing properties if it makes sense to build up something.  I do have very limited time at the moment, given my job and two kids (3yo and 3mo), but I have no problem getting my hands dirty or doing what it takes for some freedom in the future.

  • New to Real Estate · Pleasantville, NY · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Zachary Puteri: thanks, nice to meet you as well

  • Rental Property Investor · Glen Rock, NJ · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Adam Celentano Welcome to BP!

    Regardless what strategy you chose, take your time to educate yourself on it prior to taking action. In terms of being active versus passive, it is really up to you to decide how much time you can devote to real estate investing. 

    Also, just an idea, since you have your hands full now, perhaps consider starting with a passive strategy (aka syndications), and then move to something more active once you have your passive income stream.

    In terms of HML, I would refrain from it since you're W-2 employee and your HML earnings are taxed as ordinary income (aka at your W-2 rate).

    Disclaimer, this is not an advise, so please consult your CPA for more details.

    Lastly, if you're interested in connecting with local NY investors, I host a local REI meetup. You're welcome to join us.

  • New to Real Estate · Pleasantville, NY · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Alina Trigub: Thanks so much for the advice. Greatly appreciated. That may be a good approach for me. I know it depends on many factors and I am asking you to make a very broad generalization, but in general would you think that it would be likely to get similar cash flow or CoC return in a syndication vs being able to leverage up with conventional financing in rental properties.

    As for HML, I have invested a fairly small sum to get a feel for it. If it works out, I plan to invest quite a bit more out of an IRA to avoid the tax issue that you mentioned.

    I would definitely be interested in a meet up, thanks for the invite.  

    ac

  • Kelly JenningsPro Member
    Financial Advisor · Chapel Hill, NC · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Adam Celentano: Welcome!  I am 36 and in my second year, let walk this journey together.  Looking forward to learning with you

  • New to Real Estate · Pleasantville, NY · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Kelly Jennings: thanks! 

  • Rental Property Investor · Washington, DC (washington dc) · Member since 2018 · 34 posts · 23 votes
    7y

    Welcome Adam!

    I am also starting out on my journey and I like the having money work for you rather than trading your time for money. Straight from the words of Rich Dad Poor Dad.

    Have you gone to a local real estate meeting yet or REIA? I'm going to go my first one tomorrow and I hear it's a great way to network. Like you I am limited on time as I am a physician, without the family atm, and would like to start small with a single house hack, live and flip or out of state BRRRR. For me I would have a property manger involved even if I own one property and factor that into my numbers.

  • New to Real Estate · Pleasantville, NY · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y
    @Ankush Ratwani I have not attended a local REIA group yet, but I certainly plan to in the near future. Hope you have a good experience in your first meet up
  • Rental Property Investor · Glen Rock, NJ · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Adam Celentano

    You are comparing apples to oranges when you're asking about investing in syndication versus buying a rental yourself. In order to have a proper comparison you have to take into account the amount of time and effort spent on each investment. If you calculate the amount of time you typically spend evaluating a syndication offering as an equity partner over the returns projects, your profits look exponentially larger versus the ones earned through purchasing the property yourself and doing all of the work yourself. 

  • Investor · Front Royal, VA · Member since 2013 · 586 posts · 418 votes
    7y

    @Adam Celentano sounds like you and I have a lot in common! Two little boys over here too and I love spending more time with them. 


    Syndications are (in my biased opinion) the best source for passive income. You get to take full advantage of the tax benefits and it is fairly passive. I recommend all limited partners in a syndication do full due diligence on the property, sponsor, and the market before investing and then once invested, carefully review your quarterly or monthly reports to make sure everything is on track. 

  • New to Real Estate · Pleasantville, NY · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Luke Miller great to meet you.  I am definitely interested in syndications, I am just trying to get more comfortable with vetting these deals.  I am looking through all of the PPMs that I can get my hands on, and hopefully I will be ready in some time.  Since this is a passive way to invest, I am assuming the education is what you make of it.  Do you think that a new investor could learn through investing as a LP and potentially grow to do deals on their own?  Basically, I would like to know how transparent these deals typically are, not just in the due diligence stage, but after investing as well.  Thanks

  • Ian IppolitoBusiness Member
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Adam Celentano, As someone who invest in both syndications and direct real estate, I think both of them have a place in a balanced portfolio.

    The advantage of direct real estate is that you have complete control. Also if you don't have a lot of money, you can build sweat equity (which is a focus of a lot of the conversation on BP). The disadvantage is that you have to work very hard for it, and most people are not trying to get a second job but are looking to retire off a passive income. For that, you need to look at syndications/crowdfunding. You have to be comfortable vetting the sponsor and handing over complete control to them, which isn't everyone. But if you can do that, then you also get a lot of other benefits. For the same amount of money, you can diversify into numerous properties (rather than just one) and across different real estate asset types and strategies. This eliminates a lot of the risk of putting all your money into one or just a few properties.

    As far as how to do due diligence, here's how I do it. Every investor has their own process but this is the one I use. Background: I'm a very conservative investor and may look through a hundred deals a month, and at the end of the year only invest in 4-5. So things that are a red flag for me may be fine for someone more aggressive.

    1) Portfolio matching: (takes 30 seconds per deal)

    a) Have an educated opinion on where you think we are in the real estate cycles (financial and physical market cycles)

    b) Then only then pick the strategies, capital stack, and specialized asset subclasses that make sense for that opinion. For example, I think we are late cycle, so I lean toward the safest part of capital stack which is debt (or debt free equity). I won't go with the riskiest opportunistic strategies, and will stick to core and core plus mostly with some value-added. I won't be investing in the riskiest/most supportable asset subclasses such as hotels, and tilt my portfolio the ones that have historically been more stable such as multifamily and single-family housing. I also don't want refinancing risk, so any deals with only 3 to 5 year debt are out for me. For someone that's not as conservative, or a different view on the next recession, they might have a different opinion than me on all of this

    2) Sponsor quality check: (takes about 45 minutes per deal)

    I believe that a great sponsor can take an average looking deal and make it great, and that in mediocre sponsor can take a fantastic looking deal and make it bad (especially if there is a severe recession). So I start with the sponsor first. Again, others might disagree.

    a) Track Record: Get the entire track record for the strategy. As easy as this sounds, it's not simple and usually like pulling teeth. Many times they will claim it's wonderful and then try to hide their worst deals by only showing completed deals. Make sure to get unexited deals. Or if they are doing value-added multifamily, they will show you their hotel experience. That doesn't cut it for me. I want a specialist that's an expert, and not a jack of all trades and master of none. Also, in a mainstream asset class like value-added multifamily, I see no reason to take a risk on a sponsor that doesn't have full real estate cycle experience and didn't lose money. Again, other might feel differently here.

    b) Skin in the game: as a conservative investor, I understand that the dirty secret of industries that the waterfall compensation is in the line with me and incentivizes sponsors to take more risk. So I require skin in the game (average is 5% to 15%) to offset this. Contrary to popular belief, this is not set because I believe it will give me a higher return. I believe it tends to give me a slightly lower return, because the sponsor is going to be more careful, and if there is a severe downturn will prevent me from taking catastrophic losses. Someone that is more aggressive, may want lesser even though skin in the game. Also, if the sponsor is new, I am fine with less skin in the game as long as it is significant to their net worth. On the other hand if they are a sponsor that is experienced in stopping a skin in the game, that's a huge red flag for me.

    c) how open to scrutiny are they? I always discuss investments with others in an investor club because other people might think of things that I might miss. And even though virtually every sponsor agreement allows me to share investment information with others who might be advising me on it (especially when club members are bound by an NDA), I still ask the sponsor if I can share it, because it's a test. Most are fine with that, but a few will have problems with it and claim there are legal issues, etc.. That's a red flag for me.

    d) death by Google: I Google everything I can about the sponsor. I check the SEC, FINRA, ratings websites for inside information on the principals in the company. I also look for lawsuits and see what happened in them. Many times it's an easy red flag. Sometimes it's ambiguous, but even then, why should I bother with the company that has numerous unresolved lawsuits, versus another company that is virtually the same but has none. Again, others might feel differently here.

    3) property level due diligence: (takes seconds to weeks per deal): here is where I drill in with the low-level details.

    a) pro forma popping: I examine all the assumptions, and see if they are overoptimistic or not. I look at every single item in the pro forma and imagine that it is complete BS, and see if I can challenge it. If there's a hole, it may be a red flag.

    b) sensitivity analysis: I examine all the assumptions, and make sure I can live with the worst case scenarios.

    c) "Stall and see": if they are getting money over multiple years, and there is no penalty for investing later, I would usually wait so I get some real performance data, versus having to look at theoretical pro forma information.

    d) Recession stress test: I will not invest in anything, until I subject it to recession level stress and see if I can live with the result. And I take the worst recession I can find in the recent past. Sometimes there is only great recession data, and that recession was pretty mild on some asset classes, versus previous recessions. So I will usually 1.5x or 2.0x the stress. If the deal collapses and I would lose everything, I'm out. Others might be fine with taking risk, but least by doing this a person can get an idea of what might go wrong.

    e) Legal document analysis: it will usually take a few days to go through the legal document properly, as almost inevitably there are tons of gotchas that either have to be explained, or mitigated with a side letter.

    That is the very short summary of what I do. If you want more information, p.m. me and I can give you a lot more details.

    The Real Estate Crowdfunding Review
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  • New to Real Estate · Pleasantville, NY · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Ian Ippolito thanks so much!  This is gold!  What a great summary of your initial due diligence.  I am also a regular in your private investor group which has been a great resource as well (I haven't posted, but have been gaining quite a bit of knowledge).  Thanks again.  I will certainly be in touch in the near future.

  • Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2018 · 79 posts · 30 votes
    7y

    welcome to BP, youre already off to a good start. Stay motivated

  • New to Real Estate · Pleasantville, NY · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y
  • Investor · Front Royal, VA · Member since 2013 · 586 posts · 418 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Adam Celentano:

    @Luke Miller great to meet you.  I am definitely interested in syndications, I am just trying to get more comfortable with vetting these deals.  I am looking through all of the PPMs that I can get my hands on, and hopefully I will be ready in some time.  Since this is a passive way to invest, I am assuming the education is what you make of it.  Do you think that a new investor could learn through investing as a LP and potentially grow to do deals on their own?  Basically, I would like to know how transparent these deals typically are, not just in the due diligence stage, but after investing as well.  Thanks

     Yes. Absolutely. Educate yourself as if you're the one sponsoring the deal. If you decide to invest as an LP, find a sponsor that will show you everything (shouldn't be difficult). In my experience, brokers right now are very hesitant to send good deals to new investors. Showing a track record that you're already an owner of X amount of units will go a long way. 

    If you feel really confident in your education, find a sponsor that will let you in on the GP side (potentially to raise money, or add value in some other way) and invest on the LP side as well. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2017 · 160 posts · 107 votes
    7y

    Hello @Adam Celentano

    If you are interested in the apartment syndication world I would advise getting The Best Ever Apartment Syndication book by Joe Fairless and Theo Hicks. It is a very great book that discusses every part of the process and it is an amazing resource. 

    If you have any questions feel free to connect.

  • New to Real Estate · Pleasantville, NY · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    @Mike Taravella: thanks for the tip, I will check it out!

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