Reluctant Landlord in Pensacola, FL

Reluctant Landlord in Pensacola, FL

Real Estate Investor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2013 · 10 posts · 0 votes

Hi everyone!

First of all, let me start off by saying this website is an INCREDIBLE find! I've been reading articles for HOURS already. I feel like I'm reading people's life stories and learning so many things about what to do, and what NOT to do! So thank you!!!

My name is Charles, and I hail from Pensacola, FL! My wife & I work full-time as professional wedding photographers. I also work part-time at the local community theatre as the Box Office Manager. I never intended to get into real estate as an investment, but here I am!

I'm a "reluctant landlord" in Pensacola, FL. My wife & I moved to the area in 2005 shortly after graduating from Florida State University. We were coming out of college apartments in Tallahassee, FL and knew that we wanted to buy our first house. We did, and we were loving it! Within a couple of years... surprise! Our $108,000 home was worth $70,000 or less.

Of course, being first time home buyers, our credit was so good that the bank didn't even require a down payment!!! (that was a bad joke in case you didn't catch it). What is the result of not putting money down... oh yeah... no equity!

At first, it didn't matter. I kept telling myself "it's just on paper". But after a while, our neighborhood got a one-two punch that I didn't expect.

Many of the owners in the neighborhood were original owners, and therefore fairly old. They started to die off in the 7 years we lived in the house. What happens when old folks die off? Their good for nothing kids take over the house, and rent it out to the first person that comes along. Ugh.

So with prices falling, no equity at all, and rentals rising, we knew we had a mess on our hands. Worse - these weren't the kind of rentals you hope for in neighbors... not the kind of renters a seasoned member of BiggerPockets would screen for. No... these were the drug dealing nightmare renters, and they were popping up all around us.

We decided it was time to move. We listed the house, fully expecting that the wonderful over-improvements we had done would make our house a hit with prospective buyers. Not so much. Turns out that remodeled kitchens, and custom decks don't fly in crappy neighborhoods in a declining market.

So we had two options - stay in the 'hood, or rent it out. The choice was clear: we were becoming landlords.

For year one, I was certain that using a property manager was the answer. I had read articles espousing the benefits of property managers that explained how wonderful these people were, and how they will protect you and your asset.

However, I quickly discovered that our property manager was in business for himself (duh), and was not protecting our interests. It felt like they were working us just as hard as they were working the tenants. We were actually getting bullied by OUR vendor.

At that moment, I knew it was time to make a change. It was time to manage the house myself.

So here I am, just about to step off the ledge. I've got 3 months to consume as much information as I can, and get ready to try leasing the house on my own. I'm looking forward to getting involved here, asking lots of questions, and hopefully, learning from all of you.

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  • Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes
    13y

    what's the rent, insurance, property taxes, HOA, mortgage payment (including PMI)? why not just let it go into foreclosure, rent for a couple years & then buy your own house?

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    13y

    Hi Charles,

    Separate your feelings of perception about the situation with reality from the data so you can make the best clearly defined decisions.

    Has your area really gotten that bad?? Are there a ton of foreclosures and short sales on the street??

    How many homes on your street are owner occupied versus investor owned and what percentage of those investors live in the state versus out of the state or country??

    How has the crime been trending for violent versus non-violent crimes in your area?? Staying the same, declining, increasing etc.?? If you buy a new house if you can qualify with the old mortgage in place then I have seen new home builders offer free management for 3 to 5 years until the markets recover and you can sell and break even.

    I have a family member I am helping. The area they live in is nice but they are 30k underwater in value but prices are starting to rise. They need more space and are buying much bigger place now as they can afford both mortgages. They will rent out the old place for 2 to 3 years and then sell to get out of it. They are buying today to lock in low interest rates and payments and build in future equity in a rebounding market. If they wait to buy when they can break even on their old place interest rates will be much higher and the money per sq ft and finish they can obtain will be less.

  • Real Estate Investor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2013 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    13y

    Hey Scott - I dunno... call me old-fashioned, but I just am not a fan of the short sale / foreclosure approach.

    The house was renting for $795. The property manager called us 7 months into the lease to inform us the tenant would be walking unless we lowered the rent to $700. I didn't want to lose the tenant, who despite running out of money, was actually taking good care of the property and had always paid on time. Plus... it was a show of good faith on their part to even ask for a rent reduction, and try to stick with their lease rather than just skipping town, and leaving me high & dry.

    So currently, the house is rented for $700 per month. The PITI comes to $605. The property manager gets his cut of $95 per month, which means that we are at "break even" on cash flow.

    As far as our new house, we already moved across town. So we're all set there.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    13y

    Scott if Charles has good credit he might not want to ruin credit with a foreclosure for awhile.

    The lower credit score will affect rates on credit cards, car loans etc. for awhile until it rebounds. The big question is if the husband and wife are both on the current mortgage that is underwater.

    If both are not on the mortgage then one can still have good credit and use that until the other one rebounds down the road.

    Instead of foreclosing you can look at a short sale where the lenders are offering incentives to sell. I have seen up to 25,000 cash going to the seller on a HUD-1. You can also do a DIL of foreclosure and banks are giving I have seen 3k to 5k on that to the owner. You can also ask if the mortgage company will allow you to sell the property and create a promissory note for the rest and release their interest.

    Many options..........

  • Real Estate Investor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2013 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    13y

    Hey Joel - those are great thoughts.

    I completely agree that a lot of our "perception" was probably exaggerated. There truly is a difference between bad neighbors, and criminal activity.

    I haven't actually done ANY research on the old neighborhood. I do know that our street had about 12 houses on it, and at least 5 of them are rented out by the owners. Most of the owners are local owners.

    Charles

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    13y

    Charles sounds like you just need to grind it out a few years then exit if you don't like owning real estate that much. The property manager and breaking even sounds like a good deal right now.

    You can manage yourself thinking you are saving a few bucks but when you analyze taking time away from your business to deal with constant issues the opposite may be found to be true.

    I value my time these days so I do not do anything myself anymore. I build in the infrastructure costs and assumptions from the beginning so I never have to touch or see the property except for the rare occasion.

  • Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes
    13y

    how much is the dreaded associaton fees?

    also, you need to account 20% of your rent for vacancy, maintenance, repairs, capital improvements (furnaces go out 1 day). Without HOA, that's a loss of $140/month. With HOA ($200/month?), you'd be losing $340/month.

    I've got a condo I inherited from my wife. Like you, I take a bath on it; it sucks & is so stupid we're stuck with this ghetto place. But what can we do?

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    13y

    Have your agent pull MLS sold's and what type they were for the area month by month for the last 6 months (foreclosure, short sale, estate, investor owned, owner occupant, etc.)

    You will see a trend of declining, flat, or rising sales. Then if rising you will see by how much. Take that percentage and then look at your payoff balance. You can then look at approximately how much time before you get close to breakeven point where you can sell after resale costs to plan your exit.

    This is important when projecting big ticket items that might need replacement or repair with your property before you sell such as a roof or A/C etc. The goal would be to sell out before you have those big ticket items go bad. Maybe give your PM the listing to sell if they manage for you well until you exit as a carrot to perform good.

  • Real Estate Investor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2013 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    13y

    That's kinda what I've been wondering about: DIY vs Property Manager.

    The pros for the DIY approach are that I feel like I'm more familiar with the house than a property manager, and I know what needs to be done to maintain the property. I don't want to let our investment decline.

    I feel like right now, I'm not allowed to make contact with the tenants, or visit the property, which means I can't get any actual information about what things look like, and what needs to be done.

    Simple things, like an air filter change or a water filter change, require me to pay either the property manager or my handyman to make a trip to the house. It's just pissing me off.

    Plus, if I go the DIY route, I can create a positive cash flow.

    However, I am a little nervous about getting steamrolled by a bad tenant. Horror stories are easy to find on the Internet.

    I'm willing to put in the time (especially on the tenant screening end of things) to make sure we get a good person in there, and I'm willing to do the work of being organized.

    I actually already have a good handyman, and good accountant, and a good attorney because of our existing business. It seems like I could add this on for not a lot of headache, and increase my profit.

  • Real Estate Investor · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2013 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    13y

    Scott W. - I'm lucky that there is no fee of any kind in the neighborhood.

    Joel Owens - the roof is 9 years old, and the AC is 14 years old. I figure I've got at least 5 years left on the AC, and longer on the roof.

    We just paid for the HUGE septic to sewer conversion, which set me back $2000.

    We re-piped the house while living in it, and replaced the hot water heater. All appliances were purchased new in 2005 when we moved in.

    So I feel like we've already survived the big expenses for the next 3-5 years, and I hate to leave all of my money in improvements on the table by selling at a loss.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    13y

    Charles it will come down to how much you make with your wedding business.

    If getting a good tenant is easy then for little time you increase cash flow. If however that area where the house is at takes a bunch of time and energy to keep performing then you are losing money in time you can put toward the wedding business.

    Example my business is commercial real estate transactions as a broker although I am an investor myself. It doesn't makes sense for me to take away time for 10 dollar an hour work when I make hundred of dollars per hour or more running my business.

    Everything sounds easier until you actually become a landlord. The rental income bracket will usually determine the headache. Lower income people tend to have more life issues (usually but not always) and income and credit is more unstable. Usually not a salaried position but multiple hourly retail jobs that fluctuate in hours or multiple people in the house contributing to equal the rent payment.

  • Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes
    13y

    pensacola, fl...that's on the coast. Florida got massacred during the bust but it's gonna come back.

    Hold on to this thing; the renters will be pushed out when this economy comes back (note, ca, az, & nv is coming back...1 flip out there had 56 offers the 1st day). Florida will come back to.

    Us snowbirds gotta live somewhere when we retire!

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