Contractor breach of contract in Pennsylvania

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Contractor breach of contract in Pennsylvania

Jeff Lehman
Boyertown, PA · Member since 2016 · 27 posts · 8 votes

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for a little advice in dealing with a contractor. I hired a guy to do some concrete work on a wall that I have at one of my rental properties and he initially gave me a start date of 30 days after we signed the contract. The start date is written on the contract. When the time came and went and he had not started, I contacted him and he gave me another date. Because I know it is hard to hire people and I knew he was looking for help, I was gracious and told him that would be acceptable. However that time came and went as well and I started to get a lot of excuses so I asked for my deposit money back, which I probably should not have paid him up front. To make a long story short, I have been trying for over half a year to get my money back, without taking him to court. He doesn't appear to have any money to be able to pay me back. I have exhausted every option that I can think of without going to court but my issue is that I really don't want to pay a lawyer because even though I can very likely make him "pay" my lawyer fees, if he doesn't have any money, I would be at the same place we are now. And I will have spent lawyer fees that I may never get back top of a deposit that I may never get back. Have any of you ever dealt with a contractor in court, on your own? If so, what advice would you have? Do you know what the procedures are? Especially if I have to place a lien against him. Thanks in advance!!!

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y

Lots of stuff wrong with your story here....

1) Never pay before the work starts.

2) You're probably talking Small Claims Court here, where lawyers are not needed, or usually even allowed.

3) You don't put a lien on a Contractor, they put a lien on your house.

Questions - How much $$ are you talking? Is this 'Contractor' licensed? Have you called the State License Board yet?

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  • Scott TrenchPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    4y

    I consider this type of situation part of the deal in being a landlord, and I think many landlords on this forum have gone through something similar with a contractor not doing the work promised, not being professional, or outright stealing investors' money. 

    I think that the best thing that you can do here is to move on with the job, and get the property into shape so that it is stabilized and operating well. Focus on your business operations first. 

    Then, I'd view this money as sunk cost. I'd leave an honest review of your experience with this contractor where able, consider filing a claim for your money back in small claims court, but otherwise move on. 

    In future, the licensed, insured contractors who have been in business a few years, and who likely cost more are probably the good bets to go with. That doesn't guarantee they'll do a good job, but it's likely they won't run off with your money. 

    The saying goes, "If you think hiring a $100 per hour electrician is expensive, try hiring a $10 per hour electrician."

    Podcast Guest on Show #223
    BiggerPockets
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  • Judy Coutts
    Altoona, PA · Member since 2014 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    4y

    Another thing you can do is to post a comment with the local credit bureau, assuming you have a relationship with one. We have one here locally who will attempt to collect the debt for you, adding its fee to the judgement, at no upfront cost to you.

    Good luck.

    1Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    Lots of stuff wrong with your story here....

    1) Never pay before the work starts.

    2) You're probably talking Small Claims Court here, where lawyers are not needed, or usually even allowed.

    3) You don't put a lien on a Contractor, they put a lien on your house.

    Questions - How much $$ are you talking? Is this 'Contractor' licensed? Have you called the State License Board yet?

    2Reply
  • Jeff Lehman
    OP
    Boyertown, PA · Member since 2016 · 27 posts · 8 votes
    4y

    @Judy Coutts

    Is that different than the Pennsylvania Attorney General? I contacted the PAG but they didn't do anything except contact him and ask him to pay it back. He did promise them he'd pay it back, twice, but never did. They are supposed to protect the consumer but they have no teeth.

    0Reply
  • Jeff Lehman
    OP
    Boyertown, PA · Member since 2016 · 27 posts · 8 votes
    4y

    @Bruce Woodruff

    I normally don't pay before service are complete but he wouldn't put me on the schedule if I didn't pay a deposit and no other contractors were interested. I paid $1900.00. I'd be inclined to just let it go but he is arrogant and has done the same thing to others.

    I am unfamiliar with small claims courts. There is some sort of "lien" or something that can be put on a contractor. My tax guy told me of a similar scenario where the complainant won the case but the defendant didn't pay so they had to hire a lawyer to go through the "lien" process.

    The guy is licensed and is a 4th or 5th generation contractor so I never guess he'd do this to me. How do I contact a license board? Where do I even start with that? Is that different than the Pennsylvania Attorney General? I contacted them and they said his license is valid. Ultimately though they couldn't do anything but ask him to pay it back, which he promised them he would do, twice, but never did.

    0Reply
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Jeff Lehman

    Contractor in Pa here.. As far as I know, it is illegal and criminal to take a deposit from someone and not do the job. I’d start with the police dept where the job was supposed to be. Bring whatever proof you have, contract, text messages, etc.  

    unfortunately it’s the opposite for me, I can do a job for you and not get paid and it’s not criminal. 

    1Reply
  • Jeff Lehman
    OP
    Boyertown, PA · Member since 2016 · 27 posts · 8 votes
    4y

    @Matt M.

    Thanks. I called the police last weekend and they stated that while he can't take my money and not do the job, it wasn't an actual crime and therefore he can't be arrested for it. They did volunteer to call him and try to talk some sense into him but I have not heard anything. I'm guessing he didn't answer the call. He's good at ducking calls. What really irritates me is his arrogance and that he's done this to others as well. It sounds like it's pretty common with him.

    0Reply
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jeff Lehman:

    @Matt M.

    Thanks. I called the police last weekend and they stated that while he can't take my money and not do the job, it wasn't an actual crime and therefore he can't be arrested for it. They did volunteer to call him and try to talk some sense into him but I have not heard anything. I'm guessing he didn't answer the call. He's good at ducking calls. What really irritates me is his arrogance and that he's done this to others as well. It sounds like it's pretty common with him.

    Sounds like your cops are lazy.  What about theft by deception?  I’d try and file charges. 
    sucks man, sorry.  
    0Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Jeff Lehman:

    @Bruce Woodruff

    I normally don't pay before service are complete but he wouldn't put me on the schedule if I didn't pay a deposit and no other contractors were interested. I paid $1900.00. I'd be inclined to just let it go but he is arrogant and has done the same thing to others.

    I am unfamiliar with small claims courts. There is some sort of "lien" or something that can be put on a contractor. My tax guy told me of a similar scenario where the complainant won the case but the defendant didn't pay so they had to hire a lawyer to go through the "lien" process.

    The guy is licensed and is a 4th or 5th generation contractor so I never guess he'd do this to me. How do I contact a license board? Where do I even start with that? Is that different than the Pennsylvania Attorney General? I contacted them and they said his license is valid. Ultimately though they couldn't do anything but ask him to pay it back, which he promised them he would do, twice, but never did.



    HOME IMPROVEMENT CONTRACTORS (Registration):

    On July 1, 2009, the Home Improvement Consumer Protection Act (Senate Bill 100) took effect. This law requires most home improvement contractors to register with the Pennsylvania Attorney General’s Office. Additionally, these contractors must maintain minimum insurance coverage and utilize contracts that comply with a number of consumer protection requirements specified in this law. The Attorney General’s Bureau of Consumer Protection is responsible for enforcement of these requirements. If you have questions about this contractor registration program, please call 717- 772-2425 or click on the following link for web-based information:

    Home Improvement Contractor Registration


    LIENS:
    https://www.levelset.com/mecha...
    0Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y

    And it looks like you may be able to file a lien against a person in your state, once you have a Judgementhttps://legalbeagle.com/491524...

    You may never collect, but you can cloud his title and make things difficult for him until he does....

    0Reply
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
    Quote from @Jeff Lehman:

    @Bruce Woodruff

    I normally don't pay before service are complete but he wouldn't put me on the schedule if I didn't pay a deposit and no other contractors were interested. I paid $1900.00. I'd be inclined to just let it go but he is arrogant and has done the same thing to others.

    I am unfamiliar with small claims courts. There is some sort of "lien" or something that can be put on a contractor. My tax guy told me of a similar scenario where the complainant won the case but the defendant didn't pay so they had to hire a lawyer to go through the "lien" process.

    The guy is licensed and is a 4th or 5th generation contractor so I never guess he'd do this to me. How do I contact a license board? Where do I even start with that? Is that different than the Pennsylvania Attorney General? I contacted them and they said his license is valid. Ultimately though they couldn't do anything but ask him to pay it back, which he promised them he would do, twice, but never did.



    HOME IMPROVEMENT CONTRACTORS (Registration):

    On July 1, 2009, the Home Improvement Consumer Protection Act (Senate Bill 100) took effect. This law requires most home improvement contractors to register with the Pennsylvania Attorney General’s Office. Additionally, these contractors must maintain minimum insurance coverage and utilize contracts that comply with a number of consumer protection requirements specified in this law. The Attorney General’s Bureau of Consumer Protection is responsible for enforcement of these requirements. If you have questions about this contractor registration program, please call 717- 772-2425 or click on the following link for web-based information:

    Home Improvement Contractor Registration


    LIENS:
    https://www.levelset.com/mecha...
    Bruce, do you want my PA HIC license # to continue this conversation? Haha 
    can also provide my NJ  😃
    0Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Matt M.:
    can also provide my NJ  😃
    Nah, we're good dude, I trust ya! 

    😃


    0Reply
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:
    Quote from @Matt M.:
    can also provide my NJ  😃
    Nah, we're good dude, I trust ya! 

    😃


     Was just kidding! 

    When renewing the license online, it asks if you’ve been brought into a lawsuit, been sued, etc.  

    @Jeff 

    @Jeff Lehman I would definitely proceed with something just to screw the guy. You probably won’t ever see your money, but him on blast. FB, etc. contact the licensing board, visit your local magistrate and file on him. 

    0Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Matt M.:
    I agree....just read your local libel and slander laws and steer clear of trouble!
    1Reply
  • Judy Coutts
    Altoona, PA · Member since 2014 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    4y
    Quote from @Jeff Lehman:

    @Judy Coutts

    Is that different than the Pennsylvania Attorney General? I contacted the PAG but they didn't do anything except contact him and ask him to pay it back. He did promise them he'd pay it back, twice, but never did. They are supposed to protect the consumer but they have no teeth.


     Yes, a credit bureau is different from the AG. The PA AG is running for governor. It has a complaint form on its website. I recommend that you complete that form (if you haven't already) so the contractor is flagged for unlawful activity. And I would also file a complaint with a local credit bureau. Like I said, the one we have in our area will contact the contractor requesting payment on your behalf (at no cost to you) and will place a note in his credit file. Good luck.

    0Reply
  • Justin Sullivan
    Real Estate Agent · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2019 · 158 posts · 140 votes
    4y

    Did you try to get him to come out and do the work? I know you've been requesting your money after he didn't show two times but did you try to figure out why he didn't show? This happens all to often but in some situations he may just be in a bad place. Maybe he's tight on money and spent your deposit, maybe he can't find guys or maybe he wanted to take advantage of you from the start. All I know is way to many contractors give other contractors a bad name from doing this. I will start working without a deposit but I will not purchase any materials without one. In his situation requesting a deposit to get you on the schedule is normal with some companies but not so much with the smaller ones. How much was the total job for? If you paid most or half to he job upfront he has no reason to come out and do the work. Ultimately you want the work done right? So if you can work with him to get the work done then that might be easier then battling for your money and court and everything else. You learned a lesson here which unfortunately is tough to avoid. Its guys like him that make the good contractors lose work and good clients get bad work because they fight over when payment is due.  A strong contract with small payments at completion phases seems to be the best. I have seen 5-10% deposit to get on schedule but that would mean that job is 20-30K which I don't think it is. If it was I am sure he would be doing it. So maybe try giving him a call tell him you'll work with him help him to get it finish buy materials if needed increase the price if materials went up so you can get your work done. You never know maybe materials went up and now he's not making much on your job but he doesn't want to ask for 750 more so instead he just dodges you. If you still don't have the work done I would try this option. Swallow your pride and work with him and see if you can't get it completed. After this just expect to have to hold hands for some guys and the ones that do it right expect to pay more for and wait longer for them to be available. 

    Also not for or against him just playing devils advocate and seeing if another way will solve your problem. 

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