Joe The Plumber? OR HELP McCain?

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Joe The Plumber? OR HELP McCain?

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Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 0 votes

Joe The Plumber?? WFT? What Next!

So, what do YOU all think about the DEBATE?

My opinion:

Could YOU imagine John McCain at a world summit, listening to a leader that he despises, rolling his eyes and using the facial expressions he used last night? :roll:

My opinion is that he is NOT the man I wan't representing me in any manner. I know folks at Starbucks Coffee that have a better
manner and conversation style.

A President DOES need to be a salesman and public speaker to some degree to the population and world. He/she also needs the ability to remain calm in a diverse and tense situation, evaluate the situation and present a solution or view in a clear and concise manner. John McCain can NOT do that.

I have NO qualms with John work in the Senate for the most part and admire his work as a middle isle Republican, his candor and his sticking to his guns. However being PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is a WHOLE other DEAL!

Consider THIS:

Like ALL candidates, John McCain has have the BEST public speakers coaches in the WORLD coaching him extensively.
This includes speech, body language, tone, reactions etc.
He clearly is NOT CAPABLE of learning these skills!

He is OLD,BITTER,SHAKY,RESENTFUL,and CAN NOT separate his own views and opinions and anger in any given situation, CLEARLY!

That IS NOT a GOOD character for a WORLD LEADER!


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  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    17y

    I had my own rant, but removed it . . .

    I'll just leave it at this: I won't be voting for Either major candidate this year - I'm not willing to put my stamp of approval on either McCain or Obama.

    Podcast Guest on Show #100
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  • Michael Rossi
    Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    I'm with Josh. I'm voting for Ron Paul. McCain is an idiot (although I have great respect for his military service). His flailing on the economy is deplorable. On the other hand, Obama is a socialist intent on destroying the United States.

    I also totally disagree with the idea that we should omit anyone that has strong religious views. I think Sarah Palin is a breath of fresh air and I am fully behind having a President who isn't a Washington Politician. In fact, I think a firefighter, teacher, or rental property owner with absolutely no political experience would make an infinitely better president than these clowns.

    Mike

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  • Account Closed
    Loss Mitigation Specialist · Columbus, OH · Member since 2008 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    17y

    I'm with Mike except on the Sarah Palin situation. She definitely knows less than a firefighter, teacher, or rental property owner. Her lack of knowledge and experience would make us a laughing stock all over the world.

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  • Richard Warren
    Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 447 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by MikeOH:
    In fact, I think a firefighter, teacher, or rental property owner with absolutely no political experience would make an infinitely better president than these clowns.


    Mike, are you announcing your candidacy? If so, you have my vote!

    :cool:

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  • Jason F
    Real Estate Investor · Gainesville, FL · Member since 2008 · 296 posts · 7 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by **********:

    Could YOU imagine John McCain at a world summit, listening to a leader that he despises, rolling his eyes and using the facial expressions he used last night? :roll:


    I think we have been spending too much time thinking about what the would thinks about us and not enough time thinking about our own country. It's time we realize that we come first and solving the problems of the world comes a distant second.

    Honestly, the minute I care about how my president comes off to the rest of the world is the minute I don't vote. I'm tired of hearing people talk about "who the world likes" or that "Germany loves Obama" or "what will the islamic terrorists think about electing McCain". That should be the last thing on your mind.

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  • Account Closed
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2008 · 557 posts · 70 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by **********:

    I think we have been spending too much time thinking about what the would thinks about us and not enough time thinking about our own country.

    Probably because the world trade center was demolished.





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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    James, I'm a bit confused. Are you a democrat or republican? I can't figure out from your posts or the Berkeley University link in your sig line. ;-)

    You need to see "American Carol". I thought of you while watching a musical number right in the middle of it involving some university professors.

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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Another thing I find interesting that seems to be missed here....

    When Joe the Plumber's taxes are increased - who do you think is going to see decreased profit in his "flipping" business when rehab costs increase?

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  • Steven Gore
    Real Estate Investor · Naperville, IL · Member since 2008 · 20 posts · 1 vote
    17y

    As a business owner and investor for many years, the cry to "tax the rich" from arguably the most leftist candidate since McGovern is alarming.

    $250K is not only the gross (we killed a gross receipts tax attempt here in IL), but even as net it could be equal to zero or less than zero.

    After struggling for five, ten, or even fifteen years in business-- perhaps the first several years losing money, and taking on debt and enormous risks, it's not uncommon for a business owner to eek out a $30K, $40K, or $60K a year living for years before one year magically getting a single contract that propels them into Obama's mystical $250K bracket.

    The average for a decade or two may still come out to a mere $30K - $40K but all of the sudden after years of sacrifice, delayed gratification, and self-deprivation a person would quite literally be penalized by the Obama class warfare.

    The reason is simple- Obama hasn't even held a legitimate job, let alone run a business. He's nearly completely ignorant on every topic-- let alone economics and how economies grow. He's dangerously ignorant, and unpredictable as a result-- take bombing Pakistan for instance, or flip flopping on the status of Jerusalem, or whether or not Iran is a serious threat-- because he flat doesn't know what he's doing.

    Add to that his terrorist / marxist / black liberation theology mentors and you've really got a volatile mix that will make Jimmy Carter appear stable, and competent.

    McCain isn't my personal choice, and I live in a "blue" State anyway (Obama will run away with the People's Republic of Illinois by 20 points) but if I lived in a "swing" state-- I'd have to vote for McCain against Obama.

    As investors here- we'll be fine. We adapt rather well when the chips are down-- but an Obama Presidency will devastate much of America.

    To vote for or support Obama is irresponsible.

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  • Telaina Panzenhagen
    Virtual Assistant · Fayetteville, GA · Member since 2008 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    17y

    Perhaps you have forgotten that our country began with some of the most "religious" men of their day. George Washington was so bold as to say that one could not separate religion and morality. He also believed that it was impossible to be a patriot and try to take religion out of politics. True reverence for God and His law is the best way to protect life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness even for those that refuse to acknowledge Him. Many early Americans, who were not Christians, understood that Christian principles respect even those who are not Christian. This country was made great by those guiding principles, not inspite of them.
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  • Account Closed
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2008 · 557 posts · 70 votes
    17y

    I on the other hand really enjoyed the movie Religulous. I think everyone should see it. That Bill Maher is a hoot.

    Originally posted by **********:
    Well, guess I asked for input and got input! LOL We're discussing beliefs and views and thats great!


    "Perhaps you have forgotten that our country began with some of the most "religious" men of their day. George Washington was so bold as to say that one could not separate religion and morality. He also believed that it was impossible to be a patriot and try to take religion out of politics. True reverence for God and His law is the best way to protect life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness even for those that refuse to acknowledge Him. Many early Americans, who were not Christians, understood that Christian principles respect even those who are not Christian. This country was made great by those guiding principles, not inspite of them."

    AGAIN, what I wrote was:
    We MUST remove religious views and beliefs the best wee can. STRONG Religious views start wars and ward KILL a lot of children and COST OUR CHILDREN Trillions!

    You wrote:
    "True reverence for God and His law is the best way to protect life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness even for those that refuse to acknowledge Him."

    Is that what we are doing in Afghanistan and Iraq? Protecting life, liberty and the way of happiness, even for those that refuse to believe?

    GIVE ME A BREAK! It's this type of blind radical thinking that is destroying any chances of life, liberty and happiness for MILLIONs of CHILDREN!





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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by **********:
    We NEED to work with other nations and THAT IS a FACT of life!


    I agree but we don't have to work with some of the leaders of other nations. Some leaders need to be removed so we can free it's people up to work with us. America is the greatest country on the earth and everyone deserves the right to work with us and have a chance to be great just like us.

    Tim

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  • Account Closed
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2008 · 557 posts · 70 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    America is the greatest country on the earth and everyone deserves the right to work with us and have a chance to be great just like us.
    Tim


    I think that's were many people's opinion's are changing.

    The consensus for some has been leaning towards: "America 'was' the greatest country on earth."

    Many want to leave now. The election will be interesting in that respect, too.

    Most bleeding heart nationalists would simply say: "Then get the hell out." And it feels like many who were on the fence are starting to think: "Yeah, I'm working on getting the hell out"

    Me, I'm just here for the chicks and the real estate :)



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  • Rob Rey
    Member since 2008 · 37 posts · 5 votes
    17y

    It appears Joe the Plumber is an unlicensed, Tax delinquent deadbeat.

    Republicans should have did their homework on this guy.

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  • Jason F
    Real Estate Investor · Gainesville, FL · Member since 2008 · 296 posts · 7 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by **********:


    You are really young and will understand more as you grow. LOL JUST Kidding, but think about what you wrote!
    I do believe we need to focus on our own war at home and not saving the world, BUT we still MUST deal with the world on many levels.


    Guess I missed this joke.

    There is a difference between 'working' with other nations and making a voting decision based on what other nations think or who they would like our president to be.

    If you can honestly say that other nations care about the US for anything other than how our actions will effect them, you are wrong. I don't blame them at all, in fact, I think that's how it should be. Now, more than ever though, we need to put America first.

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  • Telaina Panzenhagen
    Virtual Assistant · Fayetteville, GA · Member since 2008 · 10 posts · 0 votes
    17y

    I agree that we shouldn't be looking to any other country for advice on choosing a president. What we really need to be doing is looking more carefully at ever person who is elected to office because no one goes to the presidency without going through other areas of political service.

    As far as the military in Iraq - I know everyone has strong views on the war and I am thankful to live in a country where we have the freedom to express those views. I do believe that our soldiers are there to protect life and give liberty to the Iraqi people. A dear friend of mine has served 2 tours of duty in Iraq and has shared many stories of being welcomed into the homes of citizens who are so thankful for the release from tyranny. He was hugged by many children whose families had lived in fear in recent years. I know that none of that has been shown on the news but that was the reality of what he saw. Nothing man does is perfect but I know, at least for the men that served with my friend, the desire of those service men was indeed to offer freedom and the chance to live a life not restricted by fear.

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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Rob Rey:
    It appears Joe the Plumber is an unlicensed, Tax delinquent deadbeat.

    Republicans should have did their homework on this guy.


    Nice try on the licensing bullsh#*. Here's the direct quote:

    "But it wasn't long before the Association of Plumbers, Steamfitters and Service Mechanics revealed that Wurzelbacher was not a licensed member of their trade.

    "That means that he has not completed the training program necessary for him to sit for a license test," said Tony Herrera, market recovery specialist for Plumbers and Steamfitters Local 50 in Toledo, Ohio."

    Folks he is not licensed IN THE UNION! That's what this is about. They are trying to disqualify him for not cowtowing to the local union and paying local union dues that turn around and support Barrack Obama. This is a smokescreen BS indictment. YOU DO NOT need a UNION license to be a plumber! In fact, by law you do not need ANY license to be an employee of any construction trade.

    Now - you charge him with being a tax dodger. Here's the quote on that from the court rep of the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas that filed the tax lien on him, "We get hundreds of state liens every day and we don't have to make a judgment on them. We are just putting in there what the state says is owed. We don't notify that person and neither does the state. If there was activity on this lien, if they attempted to collect it on this case - which they haven't -- it would show up. But I am 99.9 percent positive that he doesn't even know about this." So wait - they are attaching liens to people without notification or even a judgement and haven't even attempted to collect on it and the court rep states his is near certain Joe doesn't even know about it? Yeah - strong case you have there.

    Wow - for a party that claims to be "for the little guy", democrats are sure quick to attack and destroy the little guy when he disagrees with them. You know what this reminds me of - another policital party that was "for the people"...until the people didn't do what the political party told them to do and so they were shot the street. This particular "for the people" political party wore fur caps and carried Kalashnikov rifles.

    Tim

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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Matty M:
    I think that's were many people's opinion's are changing.

    The consensus for some has been leaning towards: "America 'was' the greatest country on earth."

    Many want to leave now. The election will be interesting in that respect, too.

    Most bleeding heart nationalists would simply say: "Then get the hell out." And it feels like many who were on the fence are starting to think: "Yeah, I'm working on getting the hell out"

    It has weakened with the rise of liberalism out of the ashes of the burnout hippie experiment but Americans are resilient and this country remains the greatest on the earth.

    If they really want to leave, why don't they get on a raft and float to Cuba? From the beginning people have risked everything up to their lives to get here. What is keeping them from risking everything to get out?

    Tim

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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by **********:
    Tim,

    We ARE a GREAT Nation, but we need be improve an many fronts! If we ignore this and continue on the path were on, we are going to be sorry! JMO


    We are improving. Liberalism is coming out into the light for what it is - "spread the wealth around" socialism. If Obama is elected it will likely be the end of liberalism as people will see first hand how liberalism is the greatest asset to Chicago style crony politics. That 3 million dollar project that went to the Chicago planetarium. Make no mistake that was a crony payoff to a Chicago union contractor. Rod Blagoyevich - Illinois governor - proposes a gross receipts tax that taxes your top line income and would have killed blue collar business owners (easy way to take plumbers into the 250k tax bracket, btw) and Illinois Senator Obama is still not on record saying anything about it (unless someone can find it). If you elect Obama to the presidency....don't say those of us in Chicago didn't warn you.....
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  • Jon Valones
    Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2008 · 10 posts · 1 vote
    17y

    i feel that it is always a matter of choosing the lesser of the two evils when you have two senators running. Usually because senator's are involved going across the aisle just to gain support for one of their bills. Too much back scratching.

    With politics, it is a personal choice we have the freedom to exercise and it usually leads to argument with no constructive outcome.

    The main thing I've been concerned with is the 250k tax bracket plan. Probably one of the more Marxist ideas he has.

    1) Can't be 250k across the board. Should be regionally decided. I know of companies in PA grossing around 250k that is well off but companies in New York that are just getting by.

    2) The extra tax isn't going to come out of the business owner's pockets. Contractor's I've spoken to including the GC I work for would have to work in that tax into the bid/estimates increasing the cost of construction and business.

    there's more but that's my two cents.

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  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    17y

    James -
    If you go after Joe the Plubmber for his taxes, shouldn't we also attack Barack because he didn't pay 15 parking tickets that he got while at Harvard Law?

    After all, if we're calling Joe a deadbeat, shouldn't the same label apply to the Senator? The fact is that he waited until right before he announced that he was running for President to pay these: google "Obama parking tickets"

    According to the Boston Globe:

    What are our thoughts on that?

    Podcast Guest on Show #100
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  • Joshua D.Pro Member
    BiggerPockets Founder · HI · Member since 2008 · 16k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by **********:
    Parking tickets? Thats refreshing!

    Students at major Universities, usually have their vehicles registered at another property, other than at the U.C. Either way, I am not concerned about parking tickets and or .Joes' taxes really. Just a bad choice of poster boys!


    James - I've gotten a few parking tickets in my life, and paid EVERY one of them immediately. That is just what you're supposed to do. You can't make excuses for Obama on this one, can you? He had 17 tickets - paid 2 of them late, and when his team dug up the fact that he ignored 15 of them, he paid them close to 15 years later.

    When you get parking tickets, they are placed on your windshield. There is a possibility that people somehow removed these tickets from the car, but 15 of 17 times? Give me a break. He either ignored the tickets or ignored the tickets . . . either way, it is a telling tale of the man's concern about the law (an interesting conversation, considering he was at Harvard LAW and eventually was the head of Harvard Law Review).

    The fact that Joe's tax issues are now an issue in the campaign, and the guy who is about to become President's ticket issues aren't is just plain stupid! Barack showed the same disdain for US law that Joe has shown.

    Lets talk about that instead of digging up dirt on the guy who should be used as an example of why Obama's tax policies aren't very good.

    OR Lets talk about Obama's tax policies without the distractions of Joe's tax shirking......

    Podcast Guest on Show #100
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  • Account Closed
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2008 · 557 posts · 70 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:


    It has weakened with the rise of liberalism out of the ashes of the burnout hippie experiment



    I'd have to disagree. I consider myself a libertarian. Go Ron Paul. The state of our country has me sounding like a "burnout hippie" lately. I think we need to go back to actually making stuff. Quality stuff.

    I do like high IQ vegan hippie girls though. I'd like to move to Santa Cruz

    James, I bet Tim thinks you and I should get together and eat some pot brownies.

    Steve Jobs for president

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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by **********:
    The guy didn't know he owed the taxes? O.K. Dude! What NEXT? The average "Joe" knows what he owes after he FILES taxes! I


    It was the court rep who said he was 99.9 percent certain Joe didn't know. It wasn't Joe, it wasn't me. But hell, why should be trust the court rep? He's probably a republican plant too. Yeah, this was all part of the vast right wing conspiracy....
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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by **********:

    These burnt out hippies are now named:
    Steve Jobs
    Steve Wozniak
    Bill Allen
    Bill Gates and I grew up in hippie town around them! :mrgreen:


    Interesting - sounds like a list of men who gave up the hippie lifestyle to be capitalists.

    I understand the mindest of capital socialists - it's ok to live the conservative capitalist lifestyle while speaking like a socialist and expecting the peons to swallow it. In the end that is the goal of socialism - a class of elitists who expect people to do what they say without ever questioning the hypocrisy of their own lifestyles. That's why higher taxes appeals to them. It keeps their yacht club membership free from plumbers.

    But that's what makes America great - you can go from a tie-dyed hash-filled VW minibus all the way to a ocean-side Mansion and STILL dance in your yard in a style reminiscent of orangutans having an epileptic seizure. It's just further evidence that the capitalism of this country is what makes it STILL the greatest country on the earth!
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