A Small Business Bailout RANT....

A Small Business Bailout RANT....

Real Estate Investor · Baroda, MI · Member since 2008 · 204 posts · 2 votes

I have spent the last several months on the verge of a stress induced stroke and a couple of weeks ago I decided "&^%* it, its out of MY control".

Here is the summary. I own 4 different small businesses. A construction company, a staging company, a property management company & a property investment company. I am actively making profits in each small business.

Especially in the construction company we rely heavily on credit cards to tide us over until project completion & customer pay off. Since the first credit card we had I have put everything in the business name with MY personal credit used as a guarantee. I was paying between 0% and 9% and the rates on the "high" cards were plummeting down to 5, 1.5% because of my credit.....I had roughly 125k available in credit to use......(Also I am a member of one of the identity protection companies that put fraud alerts on your CR)

One of the banks that I used (i won't mention any names here) apparently ran out of cash and deemed my company "unstable", and "there is a fraud alert on my CR" and "my credit score" and slashed my line of credit. I had the fraud alert on my CR's WHEN I GOT APPROVED for the CL in the first place. I checked my credit scores business and personal and everything looked a-ok to me....two weeks later I hear that the whole industry is in turmoil and certain banks that i use are going under and WILL go under if they don't get the bailout. Why cant they just send the letter and say "Hey, were out of money to loan you, sorry"

Then I take notice that my interest rates from my other credit lines were skyrocketing because the ONE bank had cut my credit line. I went from LOW, LOW interest rates to 32.18% OVERNIGHT. I called them all and they all tell me the same thing now. I am considered a high risk because other banks have cut my credit lines (which throws off the DTIR) and started this downward spiral....

I have no problem paying them off but I am frustrated to NO end because I pay on time EVERY MONTH. The banks that are jacking up MY rates are getting bailouts with MY tax money and believe me, I already pay dearly. So I am getting hammered by the BANKS for more money!!! ????

Is anyone else HERE going through this? I have read complaints all over the net about this and its hitting home with small businesses including mine. I am not angry about it anymore but it does make me sick.

My credit score NOW is actually BETTER than it was when i started all these accounts over the years.

My plan is this: I am going to borrow from my savings and PAY MYSELF back WITH INTEREST (tax free by the way because its already MY INCOME that has already been taxed) and all you banks and CC company's can sit around and wonder where all your customers went.

Anyone care to share?

0Reply
21 views

23 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Real Estate Investor · Harrisburg, PA · Member since 2008 · 716 posts · 41 votes
    17y

    We have not had the exact same experience, but there have been some overlaps to your story.

    We, too, have a construction company and - you are right - due to slow pay by others, we often must go to our credit lines to pay payroll and vendors. I WILL name names - American Express. We had a $30k credit line with Amex for the last 4 years or so. We would borrow, pay it back, max it out, pay it back, etc. We totally used the credit line AS A CREDIT LINE, not as a loan. We have excellent credit reports as owners and as a company. We never missed a payment (always paid early or on time). We often paid much over the minimum payment requested.

    Our Amex line is gone. We received a letter that said, through no fault of ours, that our credit line is going away. No more borrowing after 15 Jan 09 and only 10% of max line can be borrowed between the letter date and 15 Jan 09.

    Where do we turn now? It is not like every other bank has credit lines they are throwing around. We HAVE been gearing up to self-finance, but we have not yet arrived at a comfortable place to do so. We are in scramble mode.

    Our business may fail, not because we have not been financial prudent, but because other businesses have not been.

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    I think the people that run these credit card companies are IDIOTS! More specifically, I think the people at American Express are total MORONS, which largely explains why the company had to become a bank holding company in order to obtain a government bailout!

    I, too, have a story to tell about American Express. For many years, I had an American Express card which I paid off EVERY MONTH. I have always had spotless credit and have never been late on a payment of anything.

    About 5 ago, my wife had a life-threatening medical problem and required major surgery. She was in the hospital nearly a month! (she's fine now) Needless to say, the medical bills were numberous and tremendously high. We had insurance and paid every penny of the thousands of dollars we owed, without being late on a single payment. As anyone that deals with these insurance companies knows, they screw up early and often. There were many bills that were screwed up and my wife worked with the hospital and the insurance company to get them all straightened out. Well, to make a long story short, the idiots at the hospital sent us to collection over 3 bills totalling less than $300 - BILLS THAT WE DIDN'T EVEN OWE AND HAD NEVER BEEN BILLED FOR! American Express immediately lowered the credit limit on that card from $15,000 to $300!!! I called them to explain the mistake, but it didn't matter. It was like talking to a crack addict - they didn't have a clue. Even a casual observer could have determined that we had always paid every bill on time our entire lives and that this was just a mistake by the hospital, but American Express wasn't that smart. I immediately cancelled my American Express card and will never have one again.

    Mike

  • Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 447 votes
    17y

    I had a similar experience with Amex. In addition to my WAMU HELOC being cut by $100k, my Amex was cut as well. I had a $27,000 line that was cut to $10,000. Never missed a payment and a FICO in the mid 700s. I received a letter from Amex stating that the line was being cut because I had “high risk†loans on my credit report. These are investment property loans that have always been paid and the LTV averages 30%….but that’s high risk. Apparently anything that isn’t a loan on a personal residence is considered high risk regardless of the actual circumstances.

    A source of funds that I'm using now is my solo 401(k), which allows you to borrow 50% of the value up to $50,000. At least there any interest goes back into my own account. Just shows that we need to adapt to the changing investment environment.

    :cool:

  • Real Estate Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2008 · 553 posts · 20 votes
    17y

    Why don't we get together start our own CC company run it as it should be ran and treat people fairly with reasonable limits & interest rates?

    Would anyone be interested in at the very least looking into something like that?

    The way I see it we would own the company lend ourselves money and make profits on both ends!

    Let's just kick it around!

  • Real Estate Investor · Baroda, MI · Member since 2008 · 204 posts · 2 votes
    17y

    Thanks for your responses! I am just hoping that this catches SOMEONE'S attention that can reign this in before there is a major small business collapse as well.

    Don't even get me started on WAMU. I have NOTHING nice to say about THEM. Funny how all these banks getting bailed out, cutting credit lines, rampantly raising interest rates and telling most of us "it's YOU not US".

    Capitalism or outright financial rape?

    Actually, Lee, THAT is an excellent idea. Though I have NO idea how one would even be able to start one. It would probably be very expensive just for the software.....hmmm....

  • Real Estate Investor · Baroda, MI · Member since 2008 · 204 posts · 2 votes
    17y

    Richard,

    I was thinking about the changing business environment last night so I am glad that you brought it up. How can we, as investors/small business owners, adjust to the evolving climate that our businesses/personal finances are facing right now?

    Not everyone can borrow from their dwindling 401(K) plans. I LOVE my idea of borrowing from myself and paying myself back with reasonable interest but I realize that not everyone is able to do that, especially starting out. (I have been there myself)

    Anyone have some other ideas? Should we get together and lobby some government entity that the reliable payers should not be paying for the folks who didn't take personal accountability with their finances and just filed for bankruptcy or let their houses go into foreclosure?

    Personally i am willing to speak up but I am just one person.....anyone else?

    With all of this happening and these companies (banks, cc's) doing this to small businesses (even the ones with good credit) it could seriously exacerbate the current economic situation.

  • Manhattan, NY · Member since 2008 · 801 posts · 61 votes
    17y

    Jenny lobbying government to do the right thing is like asking an alcoholic to put down their drink.

    The only way is to reduce your dependence on debt. The only way is to do business in such a way you are not being forced to carry the load of the dead wood they keep piling on top of the backs of the productive members of society.

    The only way is to let the socialist experiment happening right now to collapse under its own weight. It will, it is just a matter of time. A few more 1Trillion+ welfare, uh I mean stimulus packages will just about do the trick.

  • Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 8 posts · 0 votes
    17y

    I have a question. Has anyone had a line of credit that was good until you wrote a check, and they cancelled it when deposited ? Would they not have to give advanced notice that the line was no longer valid ?

  • Real Estate Investor · Baroda, MI · Member since 2008 · 204 posts · 2 votes
    17y

    Taz,

    I am on your page, believe me. The current corporate welfare checks are just what the economy "needed". When I make bad business decisions I pay for them. ME, not Uncle Sam. When a large corporation makes bad business decisions, they get a check...hmmmm...To me, failure is not an option. I will own MY mistakes, not push it onto the taxpayers.

    I can make it without credit, OTHER start-ups and small businesses cannot. My point is that Im sick of being the good, accountable, tax paying American and getting the short end of the stick all of the time. If these companies would have cut RISKY credit lines BEFORE the crisis happened they wouldn't be in this big hot mess right now. BECAUSE of their greediness and poor business choices, small businesses everywhere, who employ other Americans, cannot keep up with this.

    I dont want government involvement in everything in this country, the government is already TOO involved but who is going to force these companies to take accountability to THEIR customers? If I treated my clients this way, they would never hire me again! I wouldn't want to treat my clients this way!

    This is a rant so rant, rant rant....

  • Real Estate Investor · Myrtle creek , OR · Member since 2008 · 343 posts · 13 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Jenny Fardello:
    Thanks for your responses! I am just hoping that this catches SOMEONE'S attention that can reign this in before there is a major small business collapse as well.

    Unfortunately this is already happening, almost everyone got used to having credit to get them through the bad times. With credit becoming so tight, I feel a lot of small businesses will fail, with no government bailouts for them. Jim
  • Real Estate Investor · CA · Member since 2008 · 18 posts · 1 vote
    17y

    AMEX does suck. I opened one (with a 0% for 12 months) used it once to buy a real estate course, then they immediately cut me off in a month, for no reason. It lowered my damn score!

  • Altus, OK · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 690 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Lee Common:
    Why don't we get together start our own CC company run it as it should be ran and treat people fairly with reasonable limits & interest rates?

    Would anyone be interested in at the very least looking into something like that?

    The way I see it we would own the company lend ourselves money and make profits on both ends!

    Let's just kick it around!


    How would one go about doing that? sounds very ambitious
  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Well, the truth is that I wouldn't want to be in the credit card business. We are about to see a crisis in the credit card business because these loans are unsecured and too many people in our country are entitled victims who feel no responsibility for their bills. If you don't want to pay your credit card bills, you can declare bankruptcy; screw the lender; and in many cases still keep your other stuff. It's just plain ridiculous.

    As Taz said, this entire socialist nation of ours with all our victims and their entitlement attitude is going to collapse. I expect a total meltdown, with things getting MUCH WORSE before they get better.

    Mike

  • Real Estate Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2008 · 553 posts · 20 votes
    17y

    Jenny,

    Well to tell you the truth I havent the slightest idea what starting a CC company would entail, but given the interest I will look into it!

    MikeOH,

    I was not really considering it for the general public more of a BP qualified members platform.

    I think that the majority of individuals on this site would benefit greatly from working together to such an end. More of an of us for us by us kind of company.

    I'll let you guys know what I find out. If anyone has any ideas I'm reading!

  • SC · Member since 2008 · 11 posts · 1 vote
    17y

    I thought I was the only one....20 years with AMEX. $75K line that I used occasionally for equipment. $0 balance last few years. Getting ready to use it on a Monday, but received the cancel letter on Friday. I stopped using my card and stopped accepting AMEX...........

    B of A can kiss my arse too..........$1MM equity I can't get to.

  • Real Estate Investor · Baroda, MI · Member since 2008 · 204 posts · 2 votes
    17y

    Don't be ashamed folks! Let it all out!

    I was embarrassed when i got my first line cut! I panicked, ranted, raved, drove hubby nuts, immediately check all my credit reports & his...made sure there wasn't a fraud or i missed something or forgot to pay something.... My initial response what "WHat did I do? Did I miss something?" and went from that to "Why one earth would they cut MY credit line? Im PAYING THEM!!" Then came the anger....and then the phone calls to them asking them WTH!? the denial, resentment...all of the stages of dealing with a loss...(which is when i realized that I will be a-ok but friends may be going out of business soon)...

    I am not a victim really, (im sorry if i sound like one) its the principle of the matter. These are delicate matters that could send the American economy further down the road to complete economic collapse.

    They get a bailout with my tax money and I don't even get a sample tube of K-Y to ease the pain.....(to be straight forward about it). My small business wont be hiring anyone new this year since i now have to evolve into relying completely on myself to fund my small business needs.

    Has anyone heard about the "Bank on Yourself" programs out there? Anyone use this strategy to finance their businesses/investments?

  • Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 447 votes
    17y

    NOW the banks are worried about who they lent money to. Had they properly qualified borrowers up front we wouldn’t have the mess we have now. So their knee-jerk reaction is to cut everybody’s credit. Hmmmm, the people who pay their bills responsibly are the ones that the banks make a profit on, so lets cut the credit of the responsible people. Nuts.

    There is a whole lot more trouble ahead so fasten your seatbelts!

    :cool:

  • Real Estate Investor · Wyoming, MI · Member since 2008 · 195 posts · 10 votes
    17y

    I had the same thing with Amex..
    when things turn around for banks, don't think I will forget how they've treated their good customers.

    I will never deal with them and they better not solicit me for business.

  • Real Estate Investor · CA · Member since 2008 · 18 posts · 1 vote
    17y

    the bad ones ruin it for the rest of us...

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Look at the number of people that have had problems with American Express, just on this one forum and have said that they will never use American Express again. Could that be the reason that Amex has been in such financial trouble? YES! When your customers find out that you're company is run by a bunch of morons (as has happened to American Express), your business is over.

    Mike

  • Manhattan, NY · Member since 2008 · 801 posts · 61 votes
    17y

    Our line with Amex has not changed. It is still open and accessible and there has been no change in terms. We tapped it for short term money in late November and paid it back a week ago.

    There is one big thing I have noticed about Amex over the years. I have been using them since 1989 and they do not like real estate investors who are not diversified. I have seen it happen over and over again. Those with well demonstrated diversification usually do business with Amex over a long period of time on great terms. Those who aren't, well...

    That is not to say there is anything wrong with the way anyone who has problems with Amex does business. It is just an observation noting their "ideal customer" profile does not match you and your business operation.

    Interestingly, over the last year or so I have noticed other lenders starting to follow the Amex lead in this area.

  • Owen DashnerPro Member
    Lender · Omaha, NE · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    I'm not a big fan of Amex either and will never again have an account with them.

    I also had a credit card with WAMU for several years with like a $4K limit. I was NEVER even 1 day late, paid it off in full every month, and had zero balance for most of the last year. Then I get a letter from them saying that they closed my account because my total combined credit limit was too high... Huh??

    So, of course then my credit score gets dinged because my LTV went up because of them closing my account.

    Sonsabitches!

  • Real Estate Investor · Baroda, MI · Member since 2008 · 204 posts · 2 votes
    17y

    Actually AMEX is hasn't cut my line which surprises me because I thought for sure that they would cut theirs next. Since i am in a "high risk" business and all.

    WAMU has SEVERE problems right now...

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.