Official BiggerPockets Discussion of House Bill (HR) 1728

Official BiggerPockets Discussion of House Bill (HR) 1728

Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV - LAS, NV · Member since 2008 · 168 posts · 11 votes

I just came across this in an newsletter I get. It centers around a law that has already passed the US Congress and is about to be voted on by the senate--- HR1728. It will most likely KILL the owner financing option as an exit strategy. Please contact your Senator to tell them to vote NO to the bill referenced below!!!!

Peter Conti wrote as follows:

I don't know if you've heard about HR 1728, but it's a heinous infringement on private property rights that is likely to shut down the creative selling market. IT HAS ALREADY PASSED THE HOUSE AND IS UNDER CONSIDERATION BY THE SENATE NOW. I have attached an article about it that you should blast to your students ASAP, we need massive action on this immediately to stop it.
 
 
 
 
House Bill 1787-Why it's Death to Your Business and What to Do About it.
 
            The U.S. Senate is considering a bill that would severely limit the way you do business as a creative investor and, more importantly, is an inexcusable infringement of the property rights of all Americans.
 
            HR 1728, which you can view in its entirety here: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1728 deals with a plethora of mortgage-related issues, mostly around limited terms and fees on residential loans. But the heinous piece of the legislation is in section 101(3)(e), which defines the affected principals as:
'(E) does not include, with respect to a residential mortgage loan, a person, estate, or trust that provides mortgage financing for the sale of 1 property in any 36-month period, provided that such loan-
(i) is fully amortizing;
(ii) is with respect to a sale for which the seller determines in good faith and documents that the buyer has a reasonable ability to repay the loan;
(iii) has a fixed rate or an adjustable rate that is adjustable after 5 or more years, subject to reasonable annual and lifetime limitations on interest rate increases; and
            (iv) meets any other criteria the Federal banking agencies may prescribe; and
 
            Yeah, I know, confusing. But here's what it says: you are NOT subject to the law as long as you DON'T sell more than 1 property with owner financing every 3 years! Or, to put it another way, you ARE subject to the limitations of the law if you DO sell more than one property every 3 years via a land contract, owner-held mortgage or wrap-around mortgage-and who knows if they'll define lease/options as owner financing, too?
 
            So what does it mean to be "subject to the law"? Well, at the very least, it means that you will have to comply with a long, confusing, and penalty-filled piece of national legislation. Here are the types of transactions that you would be restricted from doing more than once every 36 months:
 
o       Selling YOUR OWN HOME using a land contract or owner-held mortgage so that you can get a quicker sale, higher sale price, or better rate of interest than is available in other investments
 
o       Carrying back owner-held second mortgages on investment properties that you sell
 
o       Doing any kind of installment sale on residential properties including homes, condos, mobile homes, and even raw land that is zoned residential
 
Yes, there will undoubtedly by ways to "get around it"-some have suggested that getting a mortgage broker's license and then learning and following the vast new set of regulations would circumvent the "problem". But bottom line is, this law has to be stopped and it has to be stopped NOW. Here's why:
 
1.                          Congress is trying to regulate the wrong thing. The deals we make are not "loans"-they don't involve the transfer of money, or points or closing costs or adjustable rates or any of the other things that caused the mortgage crisis to begin with. They are INSTALLMENT SALES. We don't give money to the "borrower" and wait for it to be paid back: we give a property to the borrower and wait for it to be paid off. Regulating this will have no effect on the foreclosure crisis
 
2.                          It is a completely unacceptable infringement on private property rights. When I own a piece of property and find a ready, willing, and able purchaser, I should be able to control the sale of that property within the existing laws of my state, which already regulate the interest rate that I am able to charge and some of the terms of the sale. The government does not have the right to tell us that we need special licensing to sell our own properties; nor do they have the right to further regulate the terms under which we can sell or burden small investors with a new set of rules that we can't comply with.
 
Not only will this new law, if passed as written, effectively choke off owner financing as an exit strategy for you, it will also take away housing choice for your buyers. The millions of Americans who've been through foreclosure in the last 3 years can't buy a house in any way OTHER THAN to negotiate owner financing with a seller-and HR 1728 would greatly reduce the number of properties available in this way. Millions of potential home owners who would otherwise be able to re-start the process of paying off a home, and get the tax advantages of ownership, will be reduced to renting until they are able to qualify for bank financing.
 



What to Do Right Now
 

            This bill has already passed the house and is waiting for Senate approval. Please contact your senator via email and snail mail to let him know that this law MUST NOT PASS in its current form. You can get your senator's contact information here: http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
 
            As always in cases like this, you have an automatic handicap to overcome-the fact that you are a real estate investor and are therefore viewed as part of the problem. So when you write, don't emphasize the nature of your business, just that you and your buyers would be greatly aversely affected by the new law.
 
We need THOUSANDS of these communications to go out in the next few days to have a CHANCE of stopping this in its tracks. So whether you're a new or experienced investor, PLEASE take the time right now to write your elected representative!

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Will BarnardPro Member
Moderator
Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Tony Severino:
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, ... That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it.

But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

Thomas Jefferson - The Declaration of Independence
As it is our right and our duty to throw out the government currently threatening our rights to pursue happiness, etc. etc., how does one (as a member of the people) go about doing so today? Do we take 10,000 of our people armed to the white house? Do we go unarmed, in which case we all get arrested for unlawful protest (or whatever the legal term is)?

What is the answer so we can all get together and stand up and fight? I am willing and able, but one can not do it alone! Anyone?

See this reply in the discussion

54 Replies

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  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    17y

    HR1728. See my previous post.

  • Jeff TumbarelloPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Fort Myers, FL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 323 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Rich Weese:
    I can't believe there are so many that think this doesn't affect us all. Especially Jeff.. Here is an example for Jeff. You buy an inexpensive home from the bank In Lehigh . Great, you got a wonderful deal. Now you have a couple choices.
    1. Rent the home
    2. Hope to hell you can find SOMEone that can qualify for new loan.
    3. Sell on owner financing----oops, cross this one out if you did one in past 36 months!! How does this not affect what you're doing?
    I have somewhere around 40-50 homes purchased at foreclosure in TX that I'm renting right now. This would seriously affect the opportunity to sell them, maybe by 50%.
    Jeff, I'm also moving to your area, SPECIFFICALLY to buy low and sell high on owner finance. I'll pay cash, buy from a bank, and resell on owner financing. Everyone wins.
    Yes, this bill would affect me and everyone else. IMO, you'd have fewer buyers, and more properties sitting on the market longer. Simple supply and demand. That means prices would continue to drop. I would switch gears, and buy low and hold for my grandkids to sell one every 3 years.
    I must be one of those gurus or wannabes posted about. I think anyone that doesn't think this will affect all of us needs to take another look. Rich.
    p.s. Jeff, My wife and I will be in your area monday to find a home. Lets' go eat again.



    Rich,

    I do not think this will stop me from doing business. It should not stop you. I do not agree with the bill but, I do not agree with 90 percent of what the socialists and bureacrats do.

    And So "It" Goes.. THEIR friends WILL remain employed, YOUR friends, employed or not, WILL pay the freight of government's engine of Change...

    Survive anyway - it truly ticks 'em off.

  • Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    17y

    Well - I for one do not consider myself smart enough to read the bill and actually understand what it means. it is written for and by laywers.

    I work with one of the best real estate laywers in Michigan - he sits on the board for the real estate divsion of the Michigan bar. He writes one of the most respected (in terms of real estate) newsletters in the biz....

    In addition - Tony posted similar comments by his lawyers......

    If you search the web for LAYWERS talking about this bill 100% I have found agree......

    AT WORST this bill may require you to become a mortgage broker (lisc.) - does that KILL your biz? No - it is a pain in the --- YES - but it doesn't kill it.

    AT BEST tis bill will require you to follow all RESPA and TIL disclsoures - which you should be doing anyway - AND which you HAVE TO DO BY LAW TODAY if you do more then 5 deals in 12 months...

    Should you write yoru senator - of course - I did - both of them :)

    But the overstated drama that this will "KILL" the biz is a bit much.

    Some are always looking for the problems - there are ways around this bill........

    Also - it doesnt' take effect for 18 months AFTER it passes - it will not pass till fall or winter - so you have 2 years to go and get your brokers lisc. if that is the case - shouldn't be a problem.

    Again - dont' take me wrong I think this part of the bill is ludacris - but hey - it is what it is and we have to deal with it.

    I agree the best way to deal with it is to change it - but assuming the worst and it passes as is - there are ways around it and all the examples people give can still be done.

    I for one am glad it isnt' a biz killer.

  • Jeff TumbarelloPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Fort Myers, FL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 323 votes
    17y

    I stated this earlier. The only issue for me would be not having a ballon.

    Committing capital for 10 to 30 years is never a good idea

  • Real Estate Coach · Highland, IN · Member since 2009 · 151 posts · 77 votes
    17y


    Jeff, every successful investor I know of at one time was a wannabe. Wannbe's bring new ideas and money into the business. They are a great asset to the business.

    This bill even if it passes, it is not something that can hinder anything a creative investor does. We can still do business daily without any issues.

    Death is not imminent. Not even a blimp in the pulse rate.

    Here's a simple solution even without putting too much thought into it yet... the bill refers to owners.

    Each property I have is owned by an separate family trust. Each trust has a different name. One may be the Smith family trust, one may be the Jones family trust, They are merely names, to help me identify the original sellers.

    So since each property is owned by a separate trust, you have a simple way around the proposed choke hold.

    Now Trusts are super cheap, LLC's and Sup S corps a bit more, with way more IRS crap. However each one can be an individual owner (hmmmm idea time!!!)

    Once this Bill goes through the motions, fail or pass, it really doesn't matter. Creative investors who finance their own property will turn the creative juices on and find a way to legally and morally grow their business within the limits of that Congress and The Anointed one push down our throats.

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    17y

    Tony, I like the individual owner idea. However, if the owner must be a mortgage broker, I believe you have a problem.
    Robert, I wasn't the one that said it would KILL business, I said it would AFFECT everyone on this board, and I'll stick to that.
    It is another example of a proposed change to make things better, that will do just the opposite.

  • Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    17y

    Hey Rich - chill out - never mentioned your name - didn't direct anything to you in my post or in my head :)

    My point to the whole forum is there will be workarounds if this passes - nothing will keep us down.

  • Jeff TumbarelloPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Fort Myers, FL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 323 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tony Severino:




    Jeff, every successful investor I know of at one time was a wannabe. Wannbe's bring new ideas and money into the business. They are a great asset to the business.

    This bill even if it passes, it is not something that can hinder anything a creative investor does. We can still do business daily without any issues.

    Death is not imminent. Not even a blimp in the pulse rate.

    Here's a simple solution even without putting too much thought into it yet... the bill refers to owners.

    Each property I have is owned by an separate family trust. Each trust has a different name. One may be the Smith family trust, one may be the Jones family trust, They are merely names, to help me identify the original sellers.

    So since each property is owned by a separate trust, you have a simple way around the proposed choke hold.

    Now Trusts are super cheap, LLC's and Sup S corps a bit more, with way more IRS crap. However each one can be an individual owner (hmmmm idea time!!!)

    Once this Bill goes through the motions, fail or pass, it really doesn't matter. Creative investors who finance their own property will turn the creative juices on and find a way to legally and morally grow their business within the limits of that Congress and The Anointed one push down our throats.



    I say wannabe, you think I mean Newbie's. I did not use the term newbie's. There are many seminar junkies "wannabes", who talk the talk but do not walk the walk. That is who I meant.

    I bet 95 percent of these guru's databases will do one deal at best. Most will do none. They are emailing the whole world as to protect a business that does not excist
  • Jeff TumbarelloPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Fort Myers, FL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 323 votes
    17y

    I was also thinking you just lend to an LLC, or a trust. Make it a commercial loan. Would have to run by the LAywer to make sure it passes the sniff test

  • Real Estate Investor · North Central Arkansas · Member since 2009 · 509 posts · 178 votes
    17y

    I don't think this would KILL business, it would kill 2 deals I have in the works IF it were passed into law today. That's not to say I can't get them done long before it's a problem and to me, that has nothing to do with it anyway. There will always be a way to get around what the politicians do as long as you can be creative and have a good team to make sure what your doing is still legal.

    To me, that's not the point here. The point is our socialist govt. is trying to take away options that we are free to use at the moment. IMO, if you let this pass because you think it won't have any effect or because you know you'll find a way around it (and I know we will), who is to say how far the LOONEY LEFT will go? To me, I will make phone calls, send letters and emails and spread the word to everyone I know, not because it WILL kill our business but because I want to let them know that I know what they are doing and I'm NOT OK with it.

    Jeff

  • Homeowner · Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN · Member since 2009 · 23 posts · 4 votes
    17y

    I don't know much, but I do know this; the American entrepreneurs are far smarter than American legislators, and will quite easily figure out how to stay in business.

  • Real Estate Coach · Highland, IN · Member since 2009 · 151 posts · 77 votes
    17y

    If your like me you have been getting a ton of email about HB 1728 and how it will restrict individual property rights.

    There is a ton if fear mongering going on about how this will restrict your abilty to owner finance only one house every 36 months..

    That is not correct... The folks who sent this (me included) are wrong. I will be talking tonight about the bill, and how it can affect us, and possible options around it... (assuming that you roll over and not let your rep in congress know how you feel)

    The problem isn't the bill, its the people in the house and senate who we put in their....

    If you think I like government interference in my business... that isn't me, I hate the government dictating to us how to run our business ( they have done so well with social security so far huh).... But I digress.

    Tonight we will be talking about HB 1728 and how it can affect your business.

    If You have not read it, you can find it HERE

    Pay Attention to Section 101(3)(e).

    Join us TONIGHT on the weekly teleconference call where will talk about the basics of this bill and how it can affect you and I.

    The call is scheduled from 7 to 8:30 CST.

    The phone number to call is 712-432-0800

    and access code is 958028#

    Remember, unless you want to join in the conversation, please be respectful to others and use your mute button. If you don't have a mute button on your phone, you can hit *6 on your phone to mute your self in and out.

    See you tonight!

    The Call is recorded

    Tony Severino

  • Real Estate Coach · Highland, IN · Member since 2009 · 151 posts · 77 votes
    17y

    I am talking Tonight on The anti-creative finance law HR 1728 Thursday at 7 pm CST

    The call is scheduled from 7 to 8:30 CST. Stop This BILL!!!!

    The phone number to call is 712-432-0800 and access code is 958028#

  • Real Estate Coach · Highland, IN · Member since 2009 · 151 posts · 77 votes
    17y

    http://www.hr1728.org/

    This link provide a link to the bill as well a link to your congress rep and a few examples of letters to send.

  • Specialist · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2008 · 140 posts · 14 votes
    17y

    If the Gov. is giving us lemons, we just have to make lemonade. Being legally creative in real estate financing is just one of the great things about Real Estate. If they put up a restriction of some sort there are multiple ways to go around it. Besides, I'm sure the Gov. has many family and friends in our line of business and I seriously doubt that they would fully restrict them from making a living.

  • Real Estate Investor · North Central Arkansas · Member since 2009 · 509 posts · 178 votes
    17y

    First off I want to say that I agree, as Investors we can find a way around pretty much anything the Govt. throws at us.

    My question is; "Why not FIGHT them with everything you have and get everyone you know involved to oppose all of this nonsense."?

    IF this thing passes, then we'll have to find creative ways around it. Until then, we can spread the word and try to influence them to vote NO. There is strength in numbers and all these guys care about is getting re-elected. If the people overwhelmingly oppose something, there is a good chance they will vote NO, and probably revise the bill.

    It costs $0.00 to voice your opinion. Lets not roll over yet.

    Jeff

  • Carpenter · Missoula, MT · Member since 2009 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Jeff And Cheray Warner:
    First off I want to say that I agree, as Investors we can find a way around pretty much anything the Govt. throws at us.

    My question is; "Why not FIGHT them with everything you have and get everyone you know involved to oppose all of this nonsense."?

    IF this thing passes, then we'll have to find creative ways around it. Until then, we can spread the word and try to influence them to vote NO. There is strength in numbers and all these guys care about is getting re-elected. If the people overwhelmingly oppose something, there is a good chance they will vote NO, and probably revise the bill.

    It costs $0.00 to voice your opinion. Lets not roll over yet.

    Jeff


    Well said Jeff. I've already emailed both of my senators twice. One form letter, and one personal letter asking them why they would even consider a bill that infringes on our private property rights.

    If we all keep on them, and keep spreading the word (its amazing how few people know or have heard about this) maybe they'll take heed.

    I personally can't believe how fast Obama and his congress have turned us on the road to socialism. I knew they'd aim us in that direction, but I had no idea that they'd turn us into Europe in his first year...but that's another discussion entirely.

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    17y

    Bronchick and Roop both say that there is little in this Bill to be really worried about,

    Being vocal about what you do not want in your life re: government intervention I feel is a duty and an obligation.

    Case in point is Texas making lease options ridiculous with excessive fines; and land contracts - agreements for deed outlawed completely.

    Yelling and Screaming cant hurt the REI, only help. And it is only thing the US Congress and US Senate react to.

    But read the Bill, and object to it intelligently.

    Brian Gibbons

  • Real Estate Investor · North Central Arkansas · Member since 2009 · 509 posts · 178 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Brian Gibbons:


    But read the Bill, and object to it intelligently.

    Brian Gibbons



    Glad you pointed that out. Objecting intelligently I feel is a must and gives us a stronger case that will be more likely to be taken seriously. It's good to see others taking action.

    Jeff

  • Real Estate Investor · North Central Arkansas · Member since 2009 · 509 posts · 178 votes
    17y



    I personally can't believe how fast Obama and his congress have turned us on the road to socialism. I knew they'd aim us in that direction, but I had no idea that they'd turn us into Europe in his first year...but that's another discussion entirely.



    Patrick,

    Like you, I didn't think they would move that fast either. I think they are trying to get as much of their BS passed asap because when election time comes up, they may loose their control.

    Jeff

  • Real Estate Coach · Highland, IN · Member since 2009 · 151 posts · 77 votes
    17y

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, ... That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it.

    But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

    Thomas Jefferson - The Declaration of Independence

  • Altus, OK · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 690 votes
    17y

    Did this bill pass yet?

  • Real Estate Investor · ten mile, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 374 votes
    17y

    Yes, the bill passed the house.

    It is now in the Senate for consideration.

    It is not yet law as the senate must pass it as well and if there is any changes the senate makes, then the whole house must approve of the "new" bill.

  • Altus, OK · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 690 votes
    17y

    So how long will this take? I hope it doesn't pass the senate we don't need big brother sticking his nose in our business.

  • Real Estate Investor · ten mile, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 374 votes
    17y

    Once in the Senate, I believe it gets a senate number and is assigned to a committee.

    This is where most people loose track of a bill. The HR of HR1728 stands for House of Respresentatives and it was the 1,728th bill introduced this year.

    Now that it is in the Senate it should be given a Senate number such as S2598. Most bills do not ever come out of committee for consideration of the full Senate.

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