Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
My vote goes to Professor Gates who immediately accused a police officer of racial profiling when that police officer responded to a report of a break-in of his own house. Was it really too much to ask that Prof. Gates provide identification and cooperate with the investigation when the officer was there TO PROTECT PROFESSOR GATES AND HIS BELONGINGS? GIVE ME A BREAK!!!
Anytime I have an incident with my rentals or when the alarm goes off at my home, I am very appreciative to have the police show up and investigate. It shows that they are trying to do their job and are trying to protect my family and my belongings. Needless to say, I don't harass the police and call them names when they are trying to help me!!! I guess the professor just isn't that smart! You can read Professor Gates Racist Rant on www.theroot.com - in his own words.
My runner-up vote goes to President Obama, who immediately assumed that this police officer was a racist, even when he admittedly didn't know the facts!
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Here's the thing that should bother everyone who claims to love living under the freedoms this country provides -- regardless of your views on race, and regardless of what happened in this specific case, citizens have every right to yell at police officers, to insult police officers, have every right to call an officer racist, have every right to ask for police identification, and have every right to threaten legal action against the officer and the department -- and according to our Constitution and the laws of the Massachusetts, the police DO NOT HAVE ANY right to arrest citizens for those things.
(Go Google it...I'll wait)
This officer already made it clear that Gates did not threaten with his words and did not make any threatening motions. Additionally, Gates was still on private property, and no warrant was being executed.
Therefore, there was no grounds for the arrest of Gates. Yet, the police felt the need to overstep their authority and arrest him (and subsequently release him without charge).
It seems that most of the people on this thread have spent many other posts in this forum complaining about the loss of their rights to our government -- let's see those same people will complain about how Gates' rights were taken away from him when he was arrested for insulting officers.
While I'm all for respecting police officers, the fact is that we don't live in a police state, and I have NO REQUIREMENT to respect police officers. They work for me, and they are not above the law. Arresting someone for no reason is an abuse of authority, and any police officer that does it should be held accountable.
Obama was correct that officers acted stupidly, but not for the reason he thought he was saying it. Officers acted stupidly because they overstepped their bounds and arrested someone who was simply asserting his Constitutional rights (and I think we all know that Gates knows the laws well enough to know that he wasn't doing anything illegal).
I'm just curious if people really care about the Constitution (and about this country turning into a police state) the way they claim. If so, let's hear some outrage about that.
Btw, I'm sure there are people who will say, "The police have a tough job and they need to do what they need to do to avoid getting hurt," but remember that the Constitution of this great country doesn't distinguish between someone who has a dangerous job and someone who doesn't.
When our Constitutional rights are infringed, we should be outraged, regardless of whether it's done by a cop, a legislator, or the President.
Residential Real Estate Agent · New Orleans, LA · Member since 2009 · 8 posts · 1 vote
17y
Tim must live in Never Never Land along with Peter Pan if he thinks that human trafficking (which is illegal) and slavery (which was legal) is the same thing. You need to take a history course because you are out of touch with reality.
Real Estate Investor · NC · Member since 2008 · 28 posts · 3 votes
17y
Maybe I am being simplistic, but I try to look at any situation like this from all sides. When the roles are reversed, the issue would be largely avoided. In this case, as well as the Imus case, Duke lacrosse case, etc., the white person is immediately called a racist. 3 young men from a prestigious school had there education cut short by a false allegation that the media and self appointed black leaders ran with.
I am from NC, so the Duke case was all over every paper and all the local news shows as it progressed. What I find interesting though, is that in Raleigh (just down the street from Durham) a group of approximately 20 black men attacked a white family during a July 4th cookout this year. They were reported as yelling racial slurs and saying that they 'ran the country now' during the attack. This occupied the news for one night.
The president was stupid, plain and simple. Mr. Gates was stupid, plain and simple. History has proven that whenever we react without knowing the facts it will come back to bite us in the butt. Obama is not on a real estate investing blog giving his opinion, he is the president of the United States. That carries a lot more responsibility than he realizes apparently.
All races, religions, and cultures are faced with bias in many different ways. I can think of no race throughout history that has endured as much as the Jewish people. Even with the constant threat of their neighbors, they continue to succeed.
The beauty of this country and the freedoms we are promised in our constitution is that if you are faced with an ignorant person that will not give you a chance, you have many other options available to you. Personally, I have been told by a black supervisor that he didn't want me there because I was white. Some friends suggest that i sue and all that crap, but if he didn't want me there, then I didn't want to be there. I have heard all the arguments about whites not understanding what it's like to be black. But the same is true in reverse also. Blacks do not know what it is like to be white. Regardless of skin color, religion, nation of origin, etc. life is hard. It can be too much if you allow it to be. And from what I see, there are many self appointed black leaders who are quick to blame a white person and chase down a microphone to accuse him of racism regardless of the facts.
We were all made by the same God, and in this country there are opportunities available to us all. In fact, there are some opportunities available primarily for minorities.
Lets start being honest with each other and call BS for what it is. Slavery was a tragedy, but the blood that was spilled to end it was the blood of white men by a large degree. There are several avenues of recourse available for anyone who has truly been discriminated against. However, there are nor will there ever be laws that will end ignorance.
In this case Obama was the biggest racist. With his position and influence he should have been the last person to cast stones.
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Abraham Walker:
Tim must live in Never Never Land along with Peter Pan if he thinks that human trafficking (which is illegal) and slavery (which was legal) is the same thing. You need to take a history course because you are out of touch with reality.
I live in this century. Feel free to join us.
I specifically used the term "trafficked" because I knew it would bait this exact response from you. Slavery, like many things which are now illegal, was legal. And it was from the Nigerians, Ghanaians and the Benins that Europeans were able to buy the African slaves from African slave traders for transport throughout the world. Some came to America, like the 12,740 African slaves who were owned by 3,775 African American slave owners according to the US Census of 1830.
And it was under the 1723 Waltham act that WHITE SLAVES were brought to America from Europe - numbering up to 100,000. The slave owners of these white slaves created different terminology to keep it nice looking but the end result was slavery, just the same.
I know my history. I suggest you learn some before challenging me on it again.
Tim
PS - Eddie,
As you can see it's not the "scars" that are rooted deep. It's the bullsh-- that's rooted deep into our educational system that doesn't teach children the whole truth. Liberal white guilt may last 1 or 2 generations but in the end it is no replacement for facts.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Here's the thing that should bother everyone who claims to love living under the freedoms this country provides -- regardless of your views on race, and regardless of what happened in this specific case, citizens have every right to yell at police officers, to insult police officers, have every right to call an officer racist, have every right to ask for police identification, and have every right to threaten legal action against the officer and the department -- and according to our Constitution and the laws of the Massachusetts, the police DO NOT HAVE ANY right to arrest citizens for those things.
(Go Google it...I'll wait)
This officer already made it clear that Gates did not threaten with his words and did not make any threatening motions. Additionally, Gates was still on private property, and no warrant was being executed.
Therefore, there was no grounds for the arrest of Gates. Yet, the police felt the need to overstep their authority and arrest him (and subsequently release him without charge).
It seems that most of the people on this thread have spent many other posts in this forum complaining about the loss of their rights to our government -- let's see those same people will complain about how Gates' rights were taken away from him when he was arrested for insulting officers.
While I'm all for respecting police officers, the fact is that we don't live in a police state, and I have NO REQUIREMENT to respect police officers. They work for me, and they are not above the law. Arresting someone for no reason is an abuse of authority, and any police officer that does it should be held accountable.
Obama was correct that officers acted stupidly, but not for the reason he thought he was saying it. Officers acted stupidly because they overstepped their bounds and arrested someone who was simply asserting his Constitutional rights (and I think we all know that Gates knows the laws well enough to know that he wasn't doing anything illegal).
I'm just curious if people really care about the Constitution (and about this country turning into a police state) the way they claim. If so, let's hear some outrage about that.
Btw, I'm sure there are people who will say, "The police have a tough job and they need to do what they need to do to avoid getting hurt," but remember that the Constitution of this great country doesn't distinguish between someone who has a dangerous job and someone who doesn't.
When our Constitutional rights are infringed, we should be outraged, regardless of whether it's done by a cop, a legislator, or the President.
Real Estate Investor · Member since 2008 · 340 posts · 34 votes
17y
Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
Originally posted by Matthew Gil:
Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
What's interesting to me here is that all the respondents in this thread are White.
Oh, really? You have never met me. You don't know what my race is.
I just relied on your earlier quote:
"There I'll be, Mr. White Bread sitting in his beater waiting to show a rental and the cops will roll up and want to know WHO I am and WHY i'm here. You know what I say?"
Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
17y
Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
I live in this century. Feel free to join us.
I specifically used the term "trafficked" because I knew it would bait this exact response from you. Slavery, like many things which are now illegal, was legal. And it was from the Nigerians, Ghanaians and the Benins that Europeans were able to buy the African slaves from African slave traders for transport throughout the world. Some came to America, like the 12,740 African slaves who were owned by 3,775 African American slave owners according to the US Census of 1830.
And it was under the 1723 Waltham act that WHITE SLAVES were brought to America from Europe - numbering up to 100,000. The slave owners of these white slaves created different terminology to keep it nice looking but the end result was slavery, just the same.
I know my history. I suggest you learn some before challenging me on it again.
Tim
PS - Eddie,
As you can see it's not the "scars" that are rooted deep. It's the bullsh-- that's rooted deep into our educational system that doesn't teach children the whole truth. Liberal white guilt may last 1 or 2 generations but in the end it is no replacement for facts.
Tim, let me understand what you are saying. You claim that slavery was the culture of the time and therefor, in that context , it wasn't wrong at the time. The fact is that Blacks were not alone, neither as slaves nor as enslavers.
I will not argue the fact since I admit not to have the ultimate knowledge with regard to numbers and roles but I do argue the principal and the principal is that Blacks were disproportionately enslaved and this country has the biggest role (At least in numbers) in the slave trade at that time and in the context of democracy, equal rights, and Christian morals.
One of the arguments that enslavers and raciests have used was the claim that Blacks are sub-human and therefore enslaving is ok. The fact that it was done to other races doesn't make it right. It's like saying, why the Jews complain about the Holocaust? It was done before and after Turks with Armenian, Sudanese in Darfur, etc. Multiple wrongs don't make a single wrong- right.
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
I don't agree with that. While I'm not a lawyer and certainly not intimately familiar with the law in MA, the information that I've seen posted in several places says that you do not have the right to cause a disturbance outside your home. That is why there was such an emphasis on whether he was in or out of his home. If anyone has the specific law reference pertaining to this state and city, I would like to see it.
What I do know is that if you harassed the police like that here in Ohio, you would definitely be arrested for disorderly conduct or something similar. I've seen tenants get arrested for exactly that and in my opinion they CERTAINLY DESERVED IT!
I am NOT advocating the country becoming a police state! However, I'm also not for allowing the nuts to run the asylum.
Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
17y
A law enforcement officer can arrest you if he /she feel threatened by your actions (Verbal or physical). It is up to the legal process to determine whether or not the verbal expression by the suspect constitutes a threat or not.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by MikeOH:
Originally posted by J Scott:
citizens have every right to yell at police officers, to insult police officers, have every right to call an officer racist, have every right to ask for police identification, and have every right to threaten legal action against the officer and the department -- and according to our Constitution and the laws of the Massachusetts, the police DO NOT HAVE ANY right to arrest citizens for those things.
I don't agree with that.
You have every right to your opinion and you don't have to agree with it.
But, the Massachusetts courts certainly do agree with it, and that's really what matters.
Take a look at Commonwealth v. Mallahan and Commonwealth vs. Kenneth M. Lopiano.
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
Tim, let me understand what you are saying. You claim that slavery was the culture of the time and therefor, in that context , it wasn't wrong at the time.
I never said it wasn't wrong. It was legal AND wrong. That is my opinion. There are plenty of things that are legal that I think are wrong.
Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
The fact is that Blacks were not alone, neither as slaves nor as enslavers.
Wait a minute, you said earlier in this thread, "No other race came to this country on the slave boat." So which one is it? You can't have your propaganda both ways. If you were mistaken based on what you've heard in Hollywood, I can't blame you. The career race mongers have a lot of money invested in perpetuating that belief .
Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
I will not argue the fact since I admit not to have the ultimate knowledge with regard to numbers and roles but I do argue the principal and the principal is that Blacks were disproportionately enslaved
I never argued for or against this point or proportions. Personally I believe if there is 1 case of a wrong, it is just as wrong as 1,000,000 cases of a wrong.
Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
and this country has the biggest role (At least in numbers) in the slave trade at that time
Again - not true. This was an international business that had been running before the first colony was ever established here.
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
A law enforcement officer can arrest you if he /she feel threatened by your actions (Verbal or physical). It is up to the legal process to determine whether or not the verbal expression by the suspect constitutes a threat or not.
This is true. While J Scott makes a valid point that you can't be legally charged with insulting or threatening LEGAL action against a police officer, I'm suspending judgment on this specific portion of this case until the recording of Professor Gates' rant is released.
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
J Scott,
Those are only 2 individual cases and are certainly not the final word on the issue. It is not even clear to me whether Prof. Gates was charged under state law or a municipal statute. Unless the disorderly conduct laws have been taken off the books, he could certainly still be arrested, charged, and tried. If convicted, then he would have the opportunity to appeal.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by MikeOH:
It is not even clear to me whether Prof. Gates was charged under state law or a municipal statute.
He was originally charged by the county district attorney.
The confrontation was taking place in Gates' kitchen, and the cop asked Gates to step outside before arresting him; so it's fairly clear that the cop knew the laws around disorderly conduct. The cop was clearly on a power-trip and didn't like the fact that someone was asserting their civil liberties by mouthing off to him.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
Originally posted by Eddie Ziv:
A law enforcement officer can arrest you if he /she feel threatened by your actions (Verbal or physical). It is up to the legal process to determine whether or not the verbal expression by the suspect constitutes a threat or not.
This is true. While J Scott makes a valid point that you can't be legally charged with insulting or threatening LEGAL action against a police officer, I'm suspending judgment on this specific portion of this case until the recording of Professor Gates' rant is released.
The police report already made 100% clear that Gates never physically or verbally threatened, made contact with or impeded the officer.
Involved In Real Estate · Portland, OR · Member since 2008 · 117 posts · 44 votes
17y
Funny that no one here is from Boston. Anyone ever spend much time there? Because if you did, you'd be aware that it's an EXTREMELY racist city with a long history of race related problems in the police department.
I have no idea what happened that day, but I know I've seen blacks be singled out for absolutely no reason at all. If I were a black man, I imagine that there's only so much I'd be able to handle until I got a bit irate and told the officer to go pound sand up his ***.
Gates says this isn't the first time that he's been unfairly singled out. I imagine in his position he comes in contact with other blacks that have been unjustly targeted. We can all sit here behind our keyboards in Ohio and South Dakota and wherever else that isn't Boston and pretend like we know what we're talking about. Chances are that we're much more ignorant than we care to show.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Jeff Z:
We can all sit here behind our keyboards in Ohio and South Dakota and wherever else that isn't Boston and pretend like we know what we're talking about. Chances are that we're much more ignorant than we care to show.
Jeff -
Reason and logic aren't going to work here. People are just looking for an excuse to bash Obama, and this was a convenient opportunity.
Just take a look at the title of the thread...
Do you really think anyone in their right minds truly believe that Gates and Obama are the *biggest* racists in the U.S.?
I have a guy that lives down the street from me who is 100 times more racist than either of them (and I think 99.999% of America would agree), but I don't post a thread here about him.
Even if I did, no one would care, because it wouldn't present an opportunity to bash the President, which was the main point of this thread (unsubtly veiled).
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Jeff Z:
Funny that no one here is from Boston. Anyone ever spend much time there? Because if you did, you'd be aware that it's an EXTREMELY racist city with a long history of race related problems in the police department.
You need to check statements like this before you make them. I'm a former resident of Boston. I lived on Mass Ave and took the infamous green line in to work every day. There wasn't any more or any less racial tension between minorities and the police than there is in Chicago, where I've also lived. Major cities draw the race mongering opportunists for the same reason they draw a lot of con artists - there's just more suckers per square foot.
Originally posted by Jeff Z:
I have no idea what happened that day, but I know I've seen blacks be singled out for absolutely no reason at all.
No reason at all huh? Did you see copies of the police report? Did you listen in on the dispatch call? Did you know any of the facts of what was going on?
Originally posted by Jeff Z:
Gates says this isn't the first time that he's been unfairly singled out.
Wow - well he said it so it must be true. :roll: Did you stop to think for a second that perhaps this is how he stays employed and keeps his speaking engagements?
Originally posted by Jeff Z:
Chances are that we're much more ignorant than we care to show.
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by J Scott:
Do you really think anyone in their right minds truly believe that Gates and Obama are the *biggest* racists in the U.S.?....... I have a guy that lives down the street from me who is 100 times more racist than either of them (and I think 99.999% of America would agree), but I don't post a thread here about him.
The problem is nobody gives your racist neighbor air time while some people out there actually believe Obama. I wonder what a poll amongst the "moderates" would reveal this week. They had no intention of voting the race debate into the White House. This is a no win situation for Bo. People keep talking about how the cop should have de-escalated this situation. Bo should have kept his mouth shut and de-escalated it - then Gates could have made his civil suit and gotten his settlement. Now if he goes after money, his credibility is history..
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
The problem is nobody gives your racist neighbor air time while some people out there actually believe Obama.
The title of the thread was "...Biggest Racist..." not "...Most Credible Racist..."
As usual in these political threads, the purpose was to be inflammatory, not constructive. If the goal was to be constructive, there would be no need for ridiculous hyperbole.
It would be like me starting a thread with the title, "Sarah Palin is the biggest quitter in the U.S." or "George W. is the biggest idiot in the U.S." I'm pretty sure none of you guys would construe that to be a thread for serious discussion.
And it's fine if you just want to have threads to bash the President (you have a right to express your opinions); it's just annoying when you try to veil it as serious and worthwhile discussion, as if the people here are 10 years old and can't see right through it.
It would be easier for everyone if you just started an "I hate Obama" thread...I don't think anyone here has a problem with that, and at least you wouldn't have to pretend that there's an issue at hand.
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
As I recall, the biggest racist at the start of the thread was Professor Gates. This thread was very constructive. A couple of us have learned that aren't the only ones who are sick of race profiteers.
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
As I recall, the biggest racist at the start of the thread was Professor Gates.
And Obama was labeled as #2 in the OP...
This thread was very constructive. A couple of us have learned that aren't the only ones who are sick of race profiteers.
And I have absolutely no idea what that means...
But, we've also learned that for some people it's more important to bash the President than to discuss the infringement of our Constitutional rights...