How Far We've Come

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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes

It's nice to see that some of our Constitutional Rights have been restored since W left office...

Here's a great example...

Remember Bush's "Free Speech Zones"??? These were places that were set up by the Secret Service to allow people who disagreed with Bush policies to protest far away from the President so he wouldn't look bad and so the protesters couldn't get any media attention.

If you don't remember, here's a reminder (from a Conservative site, so Tim can't argue with my source):

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2003/dec/15/00012/

Here we are just a few short years later, and clearly our rights to free speech and protest have been brought back. People are even bringing assault rifles to anti-Obama protests:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/obama.protest.rifle/index.html

Hmmm...funny...I thought the entire country was a "Free Speech Zone"...

Anyway, it's nice to see some of our rights be restored now that George "Hide the Protesters From the Media" Bush is out of office...

If Bush were still in office, not only would the guy with the assault rifle be "chaperoned" off to a "Free Speech Area," but so would everyone else who disagreed with the President.

Who knows, the guy with the rifle might have ended up being tortured in a secret prison camp...

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Mike McKinzie

Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

17y

That is like praising a child for tying his shoes when his homework is not done, his room is a mess and he is playing video games.

I will even give some more praise for Obama, he wears nice suits! Problem is, I bought it for him.

The Lib/Dems are so hard pressed to find anything good, they have to go to Obama's speeches and his 'free speech' attitude. By the way, how about FREE SPEECH at the Congress peoples "town halls" about health care??

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Michael Rossi
Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
You're right, we have come a long way! We've gone from a relatively free democratic country to a socialist country in only 8 months!
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J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by MikeOH:
You're right, we have come a long way! We've gone from a relatively free democratic country to a socialist country in only 8 months!

Oh, so you supported the "Free Speech Zones?"

You didn't think it was a violation of our Constitutional Rights?

[REMOVED]

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Timothy W.
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
I invite liberals to purchase and use firearms in a legal and safe manner. When they realize what they've been missing, they may become conservatives. :mrgreen: Just don't let them know how much fun 4 wheel drive is.....
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Mike McKinzie
Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
If "free speech" were the ONLY issue, then you might have a point. But there is so much more than just free speech.

Now the Federal Government will HELP you buy a car. Seeing how EFFICIENTLY that is being run, can you imgaine Government run Health Care!!

President Bush raised the National Debit $5T in 8 years, Obama raised it over $1T in just six months.

How much of GM, AIG, etc... does the Federal Government own? Too much for my taste, that is for sure. The whole idea of the United States is to let companies succeed and fail, let new companies rise to take their place.

KEEP THE GOVERNMENT AS LIMITED AS POSSIBLE.

The government should NOT be involved with education, welfare, housing, transportation (other than interstate commerce), communication (again, other than interstate commerce), etc...

Without getting too religious, a quote from the Bible states it all, "If a man shall not work, he shall not eat." II Thes. 3:10.

I will say that the US Economy is in a shambles, but in my opinion, it is from TOO MUCH Government intervention. You can trace the current mess clear back to the Great Depression. Some say you can even trace it back to the Civil War. If Lincoln has not been shot, the US would appear very different today. Johnson was a completely inept leader. But that subject would be for another thread.

Bush's "free speech" zones were WRONG, I agree with the original post. But hailing Obama as "The Chosen One" is even MORE wrong!

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J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Mike M:

Bush's "free speech" zones were WRONG, I agree with the original post. But hailing Obama as "The Chosen One" is even MORE wrong!

My original post was about a specific positive change that has occurred since the last administration.
Everyone wants to spend so much time bashing the current administration that they refuse to acknowledge that there are some things that have happened for the better (things weren't so great for the last 8 years).

Why does everything come back to "hailing Obama as "The Chosen One""???

I've never heard ANYONE on this forum refer to him as such, and in fact, I haven't heard much support for his legislation, in general...

There are plenty of threads out there to discuss all the negative things that have happened since Obama took office; this one is to discuss a positive change.

Of course, if you disagree that this was a positive change, feel free to discuss that...but don't use this thread to bash other Obama policies that have nothing to do with the original topic.
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Mike McKinzie
Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y

That is like praising a child for tying his shoes when his homework is not done, his room is a mess and he is playing video games.
I will even give some more praise for Obama, he wears nice suits! Problem is, I bought it for him.

The Lib/Dems are so hard pressed to find anything good, they have to go to Obama's speeches and his 'free speech' attitude. By the way, how about FREE SPEECH at the Congress peoples "town halls" about health care??
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J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Mike M:

That is like praising a child for tying his shoes when his homework is not done, his room is a mess and he is playing video games.

I will even give some more praise for Obama, he wears nice suits!

Silly me, I thought free speech was a bit more important than suits and shoes...
I guess when the typical American cares more about shooting guns, drinking beer, and driving 4-wheelers than they do about free speech, it shouldn't surprise me that this is the result.

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Patricia De Haerne
Homeowner · Saint Marys, GA · Member since 2008 · 6 posts · 0 votes
17y
J Scott,

I think it is a strange time to be expressing Free speech and the right to use that..

People exercising that right were labeled some really nasty things on news shows by news people..That speech about Tea protesters ..
Now we have town halls where citizens are expressing their justifiably so, deep concerns of a Government takeover of all of our lives, literally, with this massive reform.

Obviously people are scared, so many have lost jobs homes and for allot of the self-employed dried up lines of credit even advertisers have felt the cut back..
So free speech is only free if you get to use it..
And what price is attached when people that are telling their names and where they are from at these mob and nazi townhall Q & A are receiving calls in the late evening hours threatening them.

And least we forget Joe the Plumber only asked a question and he was nearly crucified by the media.
I do not get your how far we have come unless it is about carrying.. Az, TX and GA are states that you see people exercising their rights right out in the open.

I find it amusing that we are all shell shocked at the image of armed citizens at a Presidential town hall meeting. It is that failure on our part to not exercise that right especially when so many are harassed and shouted down when they do.

Is it a good idea to have citizens armed. Yes.. Because had those two conservatives been armed I doubt UNION thugs would have attempted to assault them as they did in Tampa and Missouri.

Indeed how far we have come we have a thug in cheif calling for muggings of any opposing electorate.
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J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Patricia De Haerne:

People exercising that right were labeled some really nasty things on news shows by news people..That speech about Tea protesters ..

YES! Isn't it wonderful that the protesters were able to protest publicly where they wanted to and when they wanted to!!! And then those that disagreed were allowed to publicly state their opinion as well, as vigorously as they wanted to!

During the Bush administration, many times protesters were NOT allowed to do that at all. There were many times when protesters were told when and where they could protest.

So, the very fact that the government is not stopping free speech says that we're made a lot of progress since W.

Now we have town halls where citizens are expressing their justifiably so, deep concerns of a Government takeover of all of our lives, literally, with this massive reform.

Again, you've hit the nail on the head!!!

People are protesting at town halls, just like they should be allowed to!

This is much better than just a few years ago when people were told that they had to protest in "free speech zones."

Thank you for pointing out the progress we've made since that last administration!

So free speech is only free if you get to use it..

Yes, yes, yes!!!

And thankfully we're now allowed to use it again! In town halls, in public places, when the President is around, etc!

We once again have a right to protest when and where we want. And, of course, others (including the media) have a right to their opinion as well.

It's a wonderful thing!

And what price is attached when people that are telling their names and where they are from at these mob and nazi townhall Q & A are receiving calls in the late evening hours threatening them.

That's a horrible thing, and anyone doing that should be prosecuted fully.

But, the key here is that the government is no longer stopping us from protesting when and where we want, like they did just a couple years ago!

And least we forget Joe the Plumber only asked a question and he was nearly crucified by the media.

He was crucified by some, and hailed as a savior by others. That's a wonderful, wonderful thing...that everyone had the right to express their opinions, regardless of what they were...

That's the way it should be...and I'm glad we're back there once again!

I find it amusing that we are all shell shocked at the image of armed citizens at a Presidential town hall meeting.

Exactly. We should have been able to do this anytime, including 4 years ago when Bush was in office. But, back then, not only could we not show up armed, we couldn't even show up at all!

The fact that people are amazed by this just means that the previous administration(s) must have been doing something wrong.

The fact that this administration is respecting our rights is a wonderful change.

Thank you for reminding us of this...it really is amazing to think that just a couple years ago, Bush physically removed protesters from public grounds...how horrible is that?!?!

It is that failure on our part to not exercise that right especially when so many are harassed and shouted down when they do.

Not only harassed and shouted down, but just a couple years ago, they were arrested and shuffled off to "free speech zones"...

Luckily we can now exercise that right once again.

Wow, at first I thought this post was going to be disagreeing with me on how important free speech rights are, and how important it is that our government respect our rights to do it. Thankfully it wasn't...
Thank you for standing up and supporting me on this!!!

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Kirk B
Select a State · Member since 2009 · 156 posts · 17 votes
17y
Originally posted by J Scott:

Who knows, the guy with the rifle might have ended up being tortured in a secret prison camp...

This is statement is inflammatory and ridiculous. Even Cheney would never have authorized the water boarding of a citizen. It seems to me that one perched atop such moral high ground would not resort to flame baiting. This is not the way to get a good reputation around here.
I'm happy with the change in policy as you have described it. That feels more like a policy the America I learned about in elementary school would have.

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J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Kirk B:

This is statement is inflammatory and ridiculous.

You're right and I'm sorry. I rarely see comments on this forum that aren't inflammatory and ridiculous, so I sometimes forget what they look like.

Even Cheney would never have authorized the water boarding of a citizen.

You are correct.
I've yet to find any hard evidence that he ever tortured a U.S. citizen (except maybe that friend of his that he shot, but that's probably not *technically* considered torture).

Thanks for setting me straight! ;)

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Mike McKinzie
Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y

Just to clarify, that is a Smith and Wesson .357, Coors and Jeep Wrangler Rubicon, ALL American made, not some Holland and Holland, Fosters and a Toyota Prius.
All jesting aside, I NEVER felt my FREE SPEECH was limited under President George W. Bush.

J Scott, we do not always agree with George W Bush nor do we always oppose Barack Hussein Obama, therefore, you need to quit your "all or nothing" approach to arguing for or against either one.

Here is an example of the idiocy of the LOONEY LEFT. Barack H Obama states in an interview that marriage is ONLY between a man and a woman, and he gets elected president. The winner of Miss California states that marriage is ONLY between a man and a woman and she gets CRUCIFIED for it. Where is the 'equal treatment by the media' in that? The media is licking Obama's Piles and anything he does is OK. That is the problem that those on the Right have, the "Freedom of the Press" does not mean the Press is to take sides in public discourse, they are just to report on it. Why do you think Right Wing Radio has such high ratings? Because mainstream media Is LEFT WING based. Except for Fox, you can't find unbiased news reporting. Even those on the LEFT accuse Fox of being Right Wing when all Fox does is report the news.

We, those on the right, do not like big government. Obama believes government is the answer to societies ills. That is the basic difference.

J Scott, if you believe that government is the answer to our problems, I would love to see your reasoning behind it. As I have stated before, Government should be the "cop on the street" and not tell me what or where to drive.

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J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Mike M:

All jesting aside, I NEVER felt my FREE SPEECH was limited under President George W. Bush.

Apparently, you never attempted to protest his policies and were never shuffled off to a "free speech zone." I know some people who were, and trust me, they felt like their free speech rights were VERY infringed.

J Scott, we do not always agree with George W Bush nor do we always oppose Barack Hussein Obama, therefore, you need to quit your "all or nothing" approach to arguing for or against either one.

Excuse me? I have criticized Obama LOTS of times in this forum...

Specifically, I've said that all his legislation has been rushed, I've said that I think the healthcare bill is "horrible," I've said that I wouldn't vote for Cap and Trade, I've said that bailing out the big corps was ridiculous, I've said that he's broken lots of promises that he made during his campaign trail, I've said that he should be kicked in the *** for not making good on reinstating habeas corpus and closing Guantanamo, etc.

Like everyone else, you don't seem to really be reading my posts.

Most of what I write is a defense of his specific words, not his decisions.

For example, I've written a lot against the ridiculous claims by people here that he's trying to take away private health care options; I wrote against the claims by people here that he's trying to institute "death panels"; I wrote against the claims by people here that he hasn't proven himself an American citizen.

If the people here weren't so hell bent on making him look like the anti-Christ, I wouldn't be writing anything, as I certainly haven't been defending his policies.

All I've done is defend him against personal attacks that have no merit or basis.

Please give me a couple examples of where I've defended his policies...I'm curious if you can come up with more than one...

J Scott, if you believe that government is the answer to our problems, I would love to see your reasoning behind it. As I have stated before, Government should be the "cop on the street" and not tell me what or where to drive.

Again, excuse me?

I'm a registered libertarian and I voted for Ron Paul in 2008. In general, I don't argue for greater government, on this forum or anywhere.

Of course, you don't really read my posts, apparently, you just see that some people here like to refer to me as "liberal".

If you paid a little bit more attention, you'd realize that they aren't saying I'm liberal because of the beliefs I espouse, they say it because I defend our President from personal attacks.

Hmmm...I also say that all children should be guaranteed health care, even if the government pays. Apparently that makes me a commie liberal as well.
As another example, with respect to health care, I said that the bill Obama proposed was horrible, and that we needed health care reform -- I think most conservatives would agree with those statements.

But, I also clarified that the bill didn't get rid of private options and that it didn't call for "death panels." Well, apparently my pointing out some factual evidence about the bill (even though I said it was horrible) made me a "liberal" who "supported the health care bill."

Trying reading some of what I've written before you judge or criticize me, okay...

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Matthew Gil
Real Estate Investor · Member since 2008 · 340 posts · 34 votes
17y
Jason, free speech zones have been used since the 1960s.

I can remember the big stink that was made when a free speech zone was mandated for the 1996 Demorcratic National Convention. The local media called them protest pits.

City code enforcers attempted to strong arm local businesses near the convention to install wrought-iron fences, despite the fact that no such City of Chicago ordinances required such fences.
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J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Matthew Gil:
Jason, free speech zones have been used since the 1960s.

If they were instituted at the Federal level, then Obama deserves even more credit.
He hasn't just gotten rid of an unconstitutional practice that was implemented recently...he apparently has gotten rid of a Constitutional injustice that's been around much, much longer...

Good to know! Thanks!

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Mike McKinzie
Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
J Scott, your words, "all children deserve health care". I disagree. NO ONE deserves health care. We can agree to disagree on that, and that is what makes American great.

When a person goes to Medical School, Nursing School or some other health care field, they plan on working in the PRIVATE SECTOR, not for some government agency.

Health Care is just another service in the private sector for people to chose to buy or not. Why should it be a RIGHT? Because some bleeding heart liberals say so? I think they are WRONG. The government already supplies welfare, education from K to 12, food stamps, Section 8 Housing, discounted or free public transportation, and on and on. WHERE DOES IT STOP? Once the camel got it's nose in the tent, it just kept on coming in, and we get SOCIALISM. The government keeps inventing ways to NOT get people to work.

So your statement about "every child deserves health care" is just another way of saying "MOMMY, TAKE CARE OF ME, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF!"

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J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Mike M:
J Scott, your words, "all children deserve health care". I disagree. NO ONE deserves health care. We can agree to disagree on that, and that is what makes American great.

So, let me get this straight...

In other thread, just a few minutes ago, you argued that abortion should be illegal because it doesn't provide enough rights to the unborn fetus. You are saying that we should be protecting the health and welfare of that unborn fetus.

BUT, now you're saying that the day that fetus is born, it no longer has a right to protection and health care?

Why do you believe the fetus has a *RIGHT* to health protection before it's born but doesn't have *RIGHT* to heath protection after it's born?

Can you explain this? Seems hypocritical to me...

Health Care is just another service in the private sector for people to chose to buy or not. Why should it be a RIGHT?

Health care isn't just a private service.

The FDA was set up to protect our health, and they are a nationalized single-payer public service.

The CDC was set up to protect our health, and they are a nationalized single-payer public service.

The FBI was set up to protect our health, and they are a nationalized single-payer public service.

Medicare was set up to protect our health (if we're over 65), and they are a nationalized single-payer public service.

The VA was set up to protect our health (if we're a veteran), and they are a nationalized single-payer public service.

I don't see you arguing to take those things away.

Seems a bit hypocritical to me...

The government keeps inventing ways to NOT get people to work.

I don't think people who are able to work but can't deserve public heath care. When did I say otherwise?

I think children, people who are working but can't afford it, people who are disabled and can't work, people who are old enough to retire, etc deserve health care.

Who said anything about people who don't work? You brought that up, not me...

So your statement about "every child deserves health care" is just another way of saying "MOMMY, TAKE CARE OF ME, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF!"

Wow, Mike, this must be one of the most ridiculous comments I've ever read on this forum (and I've read some pretty ridiculous ones).
So, you're saying that a 3-year old should be responsible for taking care of himself?

I could use the same argument about abortion, now couldn't I?

I could say that if a fetus can't protect itself from being aborted, it deserves it.

How ridiculous is that statement?

Wow. I think even Tim would be shaking his head in disbelief at your statement...
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Mike McKinzie
Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
...and among these are LIFE, LIBERTY and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS...

The unborn child has the RIGHT TO LIFE, not the RIGHT to an education or welfare or health care.

J Scott, everyone on here knows how futile it is to debate you, but we still do, it fills in a boring evening.
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J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Mike M:

J Scott, everyone on here knows how futile it is to debate you...

Of course it is...I'm very good at what I do...

But, don't worry, as of now you have the distinction of having the most ridiculous comment I've ever read on this forum:

Originally posted by Mike M:

So your statement about "every child deserves health care" is just another way of saying "MOMMY, TAKE CARE OF ME, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF!"

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Patricia De Haerne
Homeowner · Saint Marys, GA · Member since 2008 · 6 posts · 0 votes
17y
Originally posted by J Scott:
Originally posted by Mike M:

J Scott, everyone on here knows how futile it is to debate you...

J,
Here is something to go along with the health care issue. Why so many are scared..
With several factors hitting my family hard. I was concerned about my girls 9 ad 11 returning to school and increasing their possible exposure to this questionable H1N1 flu and its outright killing some not affecting others.
My little one complained of a sore throat, no spots a picker then usual look, after the first week of school, but with no fever no other symptoms. I figured allergies but told her to ask to see the nurse if she felt any worst and sent in a note to that effect.

Then I thought of applying for PeachCare coverage.. we had some company coverage in AZ, but the main source of commissions is a Colorado company so not much coverage here we paid as we go to Dr.s.

Now the Stimpack received more funding and expanded coverage for Schipps ( children medical) Right so far?

PeachCare is a personal medical insurance pay program based on your earnings, At my level we would be paying Monthly $140 at least for the two girls. This insurance is subsidized by the state of Georgia and the Federal Government.

I do not know about you, but that coverage ( for only two young girls) is not cheap ( compared to a family plan with the same a little of basic dental coverage and basic vision. My 11 yr old had gone through two lenses prescriptions in one year for her vision problems that alone was over $500 out of pocket, Medicaid (Federal )is for the poverty level children.
So here we have a paid insurance program limited to just children to age 18? Subsidized by the state and Federal governments.. sounds like allot of money from three sources no less..
I received a letter acknowledging my full application was received and in the reply it is stated that due to the LACK of FEDERAL FUNDING they may have to temporarily stop enrollments.

I do not want the feds running Healthcare they need to make medicaid and Schipps all private industry run with Federal oversight and strick regulations.
Cap insurance profit, Cap or restrict Tort lawsuits, Fine individuals who opt out of coverage, and then see where we are at in a few years, but if they cannot fund a program restricted to children, when it is costing them only 1/3 of the program , that is not a freebie..

Forget about them running the entire system.. Please say you can see that much, that the Dems are way out of line, FORCING this on us all, especially with so big of a plate the entire healthcare system is to begin with..
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Timothy W.
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Mike M:
All jesting aside, I NEVER felt my FREE SPEECH was limited under President George W. Bush.

I seem to recall someone writing a play about the assassination of Bush during his presidency and it was published. Sounds like free speech taken to the level of irresponsible use of the freedom but still free to me.
Tim
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J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Patricia De Haerne:
Please say you can see that much, that the Dems are way out of line, FORCING this on us all, especially with so big of a plate the entire healthcare system is to begin with..

Let's see if I can get this written before the flight attendant yells at me... :)
I completely agree with everything you said...

I'm not saying I want the government to run healthcare. In fact, I DON'T want the govenment to run healthcare.

What I want is health care reform that ensures that every child, every disabled person, and every reponsible adult has access to the healthcare they need, regardless of their situation or income.

We can quibble over the definition of "responsible adult," but that's my belief in a nutshell.

When people like Mike M say that kids aren't entitled to health care because they should be able to take care of themselves, it's clear that not everyone agrees with my premise.

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Timothy W.
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by J Scott:
What I want is health care reform that ensures that every child, every disabled person, and every reponsible adult has access to the healthcare they need, regardless of their situation or income.

Kinda like the idea of school vouchers - but applied to health care?
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J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
Originally posted by J Scott:
What I want is health care reform that ensures that every child, every disabled person, and every reponsible adult has access to the healthcare they need, regardless of their situation or income.

Kinda like the idea of school vouchers - but applied to health care?

It's a good question, and I don't know the answer...

I don't think I'm smart enough to even THINK I know the answer to solving these health care problems. But, I am smart enough to know that there are major problems that need to be addressed.

An optimal solution is one where the government is not managing health care and tax dollars aren't allocated to providing support for other. I'd like to think there is a reform option that will allow health care to be affordable for everyone without incurring additional cost to the taxpayer.

But, this will require major reform, and may require those who do manage health care to do so under a not-for-profit model or some other innovative model that provides the appropriate market pressures and incentives to sustain the model.

I guess my point is that I have no idea what the answer is, but I certainly know that there's a problem. And not having the solution doesn't mean we should ignore the problem...
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Timothy W.
Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y
Originally posted by J Scott:
But, this will require major reform, and may require those who do manage health care to do so under a not-for-profit model or some other innovative model that provides the appropriate market pressures and incentives to sustain the model.

I guess my point is that I have no idea what the answer is, but I certainly know that there's a problem. And not having the solution doesn't mean we should ignore the problem...

So it's ok for real estate investors to seek "bigger pockets" but wrong somehow for doctors to? How is that intellectually honest? We maintain ethical standards in investing but make no mistake we are all here for profit.
I disagree that "not for profit" is the answer. Across history, with notable few exceptions (Patch Adams comes to mind) profit has rarely attracted the best talent. Personally I will take the greediest profiteering doctor on the planet if he gives me the best treatment on the planet.
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