How Far We've Come

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How Far We've Come

J ScottPro Member
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Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes

It's nice to see that some of our Constitutional Rights have been restored since W left office...

Here's a great example...

Remember Bush's "Free Speech Zones"??? These were places that were set up by the Secret Service to allow people who disagreed with Bush policies to protest far away from the President so he wouldn't look bad and so the protesters couldn't get any media attention.

If you don't remember, here's a reminder (from a Conservative site, so Tim can't argue with my source):

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2003/dec/15/00012/

Here we are just a few short years later, and clearly our rights to free speech and protest have been brought back. People are even bringing assault rifles to anti-Obama protests:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/17/obama.protest.rifle/index.html

Hmmm...funny...I thought the entire country was a "Free Speech Zone"...

Anyway, it's nice to see some of our rights be restored now that George "Hide the Protesters From the Media" Bush is out of office...

If Bush were still in office, not only would the guy with the assault rifle be "chaperoned" off to a "Free Speech Area," but so would everyone else who disagreed with the President.

Who knows, the guy with the rifle might have ended up being tortured in a secret prison camp...

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Mike McKinzie
Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
17y

That is like praising a child for tying his shoes when his homework is not done, his room is a mess and he is playing video games.

I will even give some more praise for Obama, he wears nice suits! Problem is, I bought it for him.

The Lib/Dems are so hard pressed to find anything good, they have to go to Obama's speeches and his 'free speech' attitude. By the way, how about FREE SPEECH at the Congress peoples "town halls" about health care??

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  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:

    So it's ok for real estate investors to seek "bigger pockets" but wrong somehow for doctors to? .


    Again, you're taking what I said out of context...or perhaps you just don't understand how not-for-profit organizations work...

    I NEVER said that doctors wouldn't be making money...in fact, I would never suggest that doctors take a pay cut. Many of them deserve to be making more money, but unfortunately the profit structure of our current insurance system doesn't allow many doctors to make much money.

    Let me know if you need for me to explain how non-profit organizations work, but it certainly doesn't mean that those who work within the organzational system don't get paid well.

    With strong reform, there could be enough money freed up by the system that both customers were paying less AND doctors were paid more.

    Again, I'm happy to explain to you the model of not-for-profit and why it doesn't mean there aren't large monetary incentives within the sytem.

    Secondly, a not-for-profit model is only one suggestion. I haven't ruled out others. It's a complex problem that, as I said before, I don't know enough to solve.

    But that doesn't make it unsolvable...

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  • Mike McKinzie
    Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    J Scott

    Don't twist my words around. My philosophy is that the PARENTS and not the Government, should control the health care for their children. If the Government wants to provide an option for the parents, then I am willing to look at it. But the parents should have the choice.

    As for Non Profits, I work as a Finance Director for a Non Profit and I can tell you that all of us work for up to HALF of what we could make in the Private Sector. For instance, the head of our Alcohol Rehab center, with a graduate degree, makes only 60K a year. And I could give many more examples.

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  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Mike M:
    J Scott

    Don't twist my words around. My philosophy is that the PARENTS and not the Government, should control the health care for their children.

    To avoid twisting your words around, how about I jut quote you:

    Originally posted by Mike M:

    So your statement about "every child deserves health care" is just another way of saying "MOMMY, TAKE CARE OF ME, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF!"

    Now others can interpret that as they'd like...


    As for Non Profits, I work as a Finance Director for a Non Profit and I can tell you that all of us work for up to HALF of what we could make in the Private Sector.


    Just because you work for a non-profit for half of what you'd make in the private sector does not mean all non-profits and all employees od non-profits do.

    I worked for a not-for-profit for two years making as much as I did in the private sector and many who worked for me made more than they would have in the private sector.

    Those that understand how not-for-profits work realize that non-profit status has little to do with the salaries of the employees. As a good example, all those rich television evangelists run non-profit organizations...

    One last thing, just because healthcare COULD be run as a not-for-profit doesn't mean doctors would be employees of the not-for-profit organization. They would likely be independent contractors, ans as such, could make as much money as they could negotiate (just like now with the private insurance companies).

    Come on, guys...a little out of the box thinking can go a long way...just because you (or I) can't come up with a quick solution doesn't mean there aren't plenty of good ideas out there. Instead of constantly arguing about why ideas won't work, try figuring out something that might.

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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Let me know if you need for me to explain how non-profit organizations work, but it certainly doesn't mean that those who work within the organzational system don't get paid well.


    No need. I used to live in Cook County. I know exactly how liberal "Non-Profit Organizations" work. Let me know if you need me to explain that sometimes doctors own their own practice and why entrepreneurs in America are free to pursue profits without liberals telling them how they should run their business.
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  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Let me know if you need me to explain that sometimes doctors own their own practice and why entrepreneurs in America are free to pursue profits without liberals telling them how they should run their business.


    You just don't get it Tim...and based on your comments, you clearly have NO IDEA how a not-for-profit company works. If you did, you'd understand that a not-for-profit company (and even a government agency) may have absolutely no affect on the profitability of the companies it is affiliated with or even oversees.

    For example, the airline industry is overseen by the FAA, and in part by the FCC and a private not-for-profit organization called ARINC. But, just because the industry is overseen by government agencies and not-for-profit companies doesn't mean that the companies in the industry (airlines, for example), aren't free to make as much money as they can. I believe Southwest Airlines turned a profit for 69 straight quarters...and made money hand-over-fist for 30 years, despite being overseen by government and not-for-profit organizations.

    As another example, consider all the nut-job religious televangelists who claim not-for-profit status as a church, make millions of dollars, and then don't pay a penny in taxes. Until they get caught having sex with prostitutes and little boys and other "morally questionable" activities, some of those guys are getting quite rich off their not-for-profit activities. But I digress...

    I'm sorry if you can't comprehend how people and companies can operate a profitable (and potentially very lucrative) business in an industry that is overseen by -- or maintains -- not-for-profit companies as well, but just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it not true.

    There's no shame in asking for an explanation when you don't understand something...but providing bad information doesn't help your credibility...

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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    You just don't get it Tim...and based on your comments, you clearly have NO IDEA how a not-for-profit company works.

    Actually, I have every idea. One need look no further than ACORN.

    Originally posted by J Scott:
    but providing bad information doesn't help your credibility...


    Thankfully I could care less about your good opinion.
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  • Timothy W.
    Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    You just don't get it Tim...and based on your comments, you clearly have NO IDEA how a not-for-profit company works.


    Actually, I have every idea. One need look no further than ACORN.


    Let me clarify. Changing for profits to not for profits is a nonsolution to a nonproblem. The problem isn't profits. The problem is access. Access is solved by increasing profits to increase charitable contribution or by reducing costs. One of the most significant costs to health care is anti b.s. lawsuit insurance (liability for those who care about technical terminology). Cut that cost and you can increase access.
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  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Tim Wieneke:
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    You just don't get it Tim...and based on your comments, you clearly have NO IDEA how a not-for-profit company works.


    Actually, I have every idea. One need look no further than ACORN.

    And once again, you prove my point...

    And the funny thing is, you probably have no idea why...

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