Does the house of cards begin to collapse?

Does the house of cards begin to collapse?

Real Estate Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 447 votes

Social Security is about to begin paying out more than it takes in.

Article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_social_security_ious

Since the Social Security Trust Fund is nothing but a bunch of IOUs, how long will it take before people realize what a sham the whole system is? It’s nothing more than a legal ponzi scheme.

Before the usual suspects start chiming in about who’s fault it is, keep in mind that neither Democrats nor Republicans ever had the guts to face the issue for fear of losing votes.

:cool:

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Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
16y

Richard
Government run anything is just a 'house of cards'. And the problem goes back to us. As voters, we do not hold our elected officials to the same standard as we do our own children. Until we stop electing 'incumbents', 'personalities' and 'image' and start electing substance, we will just keep getting what we have now. That being a ballooning deficit, a bankrupt Social Security, a plethora of entitlements, a crumbling infrastructure, etc....

We have a chance this November to take a small step in getting rid of some of the moron's in DC. Since Obama was elected, many folks are starting to see that image does not equal results, the Peter's Principle at work.

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  • Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    Richard
    Government run anything is just a 'house of cards'. And the problem goes back to us. As voters, we do not hold our elected officials to the same standard as we do our own children. Until we stop electing 'incumbents', 'personalities' and 'image' and start electing substance, we will just keep getting what we have now. That being a ballooning deficit, a bankrupt Social Security, a plethora of entitlements, a crumbling infrastructure, etc....

    We have a chance this November to take a small step in getting rid of some of the moron's in DC. Since Obama was elected, many folks are starting to see that image does not equal results, the Peter's Principle at work.

  • Real Estate Investor · North Carolina · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 483 votes
    16y

    As long as a majority of voters can vote themselves free money from the public trough very few politicians will turn that vote down.

    As some here have already opined, it will probably take a SERIOUS crisis beyond what any politician can control to reintroduce fiscal common sense and personal responsibility.

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    16y

    House of cards- I called it dominos the other day in another post. Same thing.

    As a side line- I applied for my social security yesterday on line. First check comes in August! My amount will NOT be the straw that breaks the camels back, I assure you. I BARELY had enough quarters of payments to qualify. I figured to take at age 62, before they change the age or it goes broke.
    As pointed out by others, Medicare, social security, USA, car manufacturers, banks,etc are all going broke.
    You can't continue taxing the rich to pay for it. We're running out of rich. The richest 1 % now pay nearly 40% of all income taxes. There are nearly 60 % of the population that pay less than ONE per cent of all taxes. (I might be off a tiny bit, but not much) Freebies sound good to the 60%, and it makes an easy way to get elected. Just promise to take money from those that have it and give it to the 60%. Big mess, imo. Rich

  • Real Estate Consultant · Lansing, MI · Member since 2010 · 117 posts · 32 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Rich Weese:

    You can't continue taxing the rich to pay for it. We're running out of rich. The richest 1 % now pay nearly 40% of all income taxes.

    Actually Rich, America is not running out of rich people. The rich are getting richer. Why? The rich are much more dependent on the rise of valuations of their investments. The middle class and poor depend on wages. The current economic system does NOT promote wage growth. The current middle class is saddled with debt in the form of college loans, home loans, car loans and credit card debt. Being in the middle class is the equivalent to be a worker bee for financial institutions. It's the middle class that we are running out of. If the current income disparities continue America will be more like Brazil or Argentina in the comming years.

    I agree with your the rich cannot continue to be taxed excessively but in many cases the rich often have the resources to legally avoid paying many of the taxes that they have levied against them.

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    16y

    Carlton, I have to disagree with you.The top 1% pay nearly 40% of the taxes. That 1% PROBALY is smart enuff to get richer. However , the number of rich and actual taxpayers are dropping every year. If the debt continues, and you live long enuff, you will run out of taxable base of population. It will happen unless major changes, soon. Rich

  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Mike M:

    We have a chance this November to take a small step in getting rid of some of the moron's in DC. Since Obama was elected, many folks are starting to see that image does not equal results, the Peter's Principle at work.


    Completely agree, but unfortunately, the public will probably just vote in another set of idiots...

    And no, I don't mean that in a partisan way...99% of those running for a Federal office probably don't have our best interests in mind, regardless of what party they're with (unless, of course, they're Libertarian, in which case I'll give them the benefit of the doubt...but the American people are too scared to vote Libertarians into high office)..

  • Real Estate Consultant · Lone Tree, CO · Member since 2010 · 18 posts · 7 votes
    16y

    It is odd that libertarians do have such a tough time in the polls. Maybe that will change in the near future.

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    The ponzi scheme will end when the checks stop being sent. We're already FAR past broke in this country. As soon as reality sets in and the government checks for welfare, medicare, medicaid, SSDI, free cell phones, food stamps, etc, etc, etc. stop being sent or are seriously cut back, the economy will collapse and civilization will break down. At that point, the only way things are "fixed" is for tens of millions of Americans to die via whatever avenue the socialists determine. It's happened over and over throughout history - just pick your favorite socialist/communist/fascist from history and read about the slaughter. Mao, Stalin, Hitler - they all killed millions. That's where we're headed.

    My advice - IMMEDIATELY start stocking up on food/water/guns/ammo - time is running out.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by MikeOH:
    ...the economy will collapse and civilization will break down....time is running out.


    I'll say it again, if you truly believe this is inevitable and you understand the economic impact of your scenario, you'd be selling all of your real estate right now...so, either you don't believe what you're saying or you don't understand the ramifications of what you're saying...

    I'm willing to bet on which one it is...

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    If you can tell me what to do with the money after I sell all my real estate, I'll do it! Otherwise, I maintain that my strategy is logical and appropriate.

  • Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    I think people too often blame politicians for everything when, in fact, it is the voters who are at fault. Politicians are in the business of getting elected and they are going to do whatever it takes to remain in office. If voters are dumb enough to support unsustainable entitlements, why should a politician stick his neck out to oppose it? We all act in our self-interest so why do we expect something different from a politician?

    I also completely agree with Rich about the skewed tax structure. The irony is that we are living in a world that Karl Marx would have loved. He wanted a dictatorship of the proletariat - the working class. What we have today is a dictatorship of the middle class. The middle class is the majority of voters and it is easy for them to vote in favor of taxes to be paid by others. This has happened consistently over so many decades that nobody even finds it shocking any more that the rich have to pay a huge percent of the nation's expenses.

    I think we should change to a per-capita tax where every citizen pays the same amount towards government expenses that are enjoyed equally by all citizens. Once people actually have to pay for stuff instead of voting for others to pay for it, they will realize how wasteful most of our government is.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by MikeOH:

    If you can tell me what to do with the money after I sell all my real estate, I'll do it! Otherwise, I maintain that my strategy is logical and appropriate.


    Move it into assets and currencies that are least correlated with the dollar...

    From an economic standpoint, it you're positive that civilization will collapse and the dollar will be worthless, that's pretty obvious...in fact, it's the only way to have any money left after it happens...

    So, are you going to do it now?
  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    Do what? You didn't propose anything specific. Europe is a disaster. China has the mother of all real estate bubbles. It's too risky to stack gold bars in the basement. Where would you move your money?

    I still can't think of anything better than having wealth in real estate. Is real estate correlated with the dollar? I don't think so. If the dollar collapses, my real estate will still be there. On the other side of the collapse, my real estate will still be there, even if it is valued in some other currency.

  • Real Estate Investor · North Carolina · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 483 votes
    16y

    Don't get me wrong, I love and own real estate.

    But it sure makes an easy target for politicians: as in taxation, nationalization, rent control, and so forth.

  • Property Manager · Passaic, NJ · Member since 2008 · 369 posts · 83 votes
    16y

    I'm not one for getting into the politics arena, but my 75 yr old dad agrees with Mike 100% on the future of our country. He is the immigrant of then, not the immigrant of now.

    My dad ran away from Czechoslovakia at 17 leaving his family behind, and it took him several years to get to the US, the land of opportunity and freedom, jailed several times along the way. He got a job on day 2 not knowing English, learned the language, bought a home and later some farmland, his own little paradise. He worked hard, had a 3 yr mortgage, and that's the only debt he has ever had. He was not allowed back to his homeland for many years or he would have been jailed. I met my grandparents for the first time when I was seven.

    Dad chose to get out of the rat race 25 yrs ago. Although he has saved his money, Dad lives like he was living in the old country - very simple - 6 months worth of food, many guns, lots of fishing...a peaceful life. I used to think he was just a "crazy" old man.

    He has watched his land of opportunity and freedom change. He brings me his medical bills on occasion and neither of us can decipher them. We find charges on his Medicare statements from doctors he's never even seen. He asks me how does a 4-day hospital stay for gallbladder surgery cost $85,000? Medicare then pays a reduced "contracted" rate and he's responsible for 20%? I don't have answers for him.

    Dad's opinion of his land of freedom and opportunity has drastically changed - now its full of "crooks". He loves to tell me that he's glad he taught his daughter how to hunt and how to survive. He warns me that one day with the way this Country is going I will seek refuge for my family in his little paradise......I used to laugh and laugh at him.......he's not sounding so crazy anymore.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by MikeOH:

    Do what? You didn't propose anything specific.


    Okay, here is a specific suggestion:

    Move all your net worth into Euros. Regardless of where you think Europe and their economies are now, if the dollar collapses, the Euro will take over as the best international currency for central banks. This means that when your apocalypse comes, if you have moved all your money into Euros, you'll likely make a fortune very quickly as central bank money looks to roll in.

    In fact, if you're positive our economy (and the dollar) will collapse, this is an awesome investment opportunity that you should be taking advantage of.

    Unless your positive that the Euro is going to collapse faster than the dollar (which you've never indicated you believe), the only reason not to move your money into Euros at this point is if you don't believe what you're saying or if you're not a good investor.


    Is real estate correlated with the dollar?


    To the extent that the value of real estate will be worthless without a national currency (i.e., the government falls apart and the central bank collapses), yes, it very much is...


    If the dollar collapses, my real estate will still be there.


    Yes, but it will be worthless. It will be no different than your car, your computer, or any other disposable asset that has fully depreciated.

    The only physical assets that will likely be worth anything will be weapons, food and water. And if you've moved all your net worth into Euros, you should be able to import all those things (on the backs of mercenaries) without a problem...

    So, if you really believe what you say, it's time to cash in and buy Euros!

    Let us know how it's going...
  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    J Scott,

    You better stick with real estate - you're not going to make it as a financial advisor. I just said a few posts ago that Europe is a disaster and yet you recommend buying Euros. I don't think so!!!

    I disagree. Things that you can touch like real estate, gold, food, water, ammo, etc will still have value - it just won't be valued in dollars.

    I'm quite confident that I'm right, but I don't believe what you're saying about the Euro being a good investment. In fact, if I was going to bet on the Euro, I would be short!

    It's ironic that your family fled socialism and now it's taken over here. I fully expect all the evils of socialism to destroy this country in the very near future.

    Just be sure to stock up food for your family so that you're not a burden on your father. Also, I don't think 6 months is enough - I'd shoot for at least a year. I'm not there yet, but that is my goal.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by MikeOH:

    You better stick with real estate - you're not going to make it as a financial advisor. I just said a few posts ago that Europe is a disaster and yet you recommend buying Euros. I don't think so!!!

    So, you're 100% sure the dollar will collapse, but you don't want to move into Euros because it's not doing great...

    You're 100% sure that you're investment is going to zero, but you don't want to sell off because you don't like the alternatives...

    In other words, if you were in a burning building, you wouldn't run outside, because who knows, you could get hit by a bus outside?

    Great logic...

    You may want to find something other than investing to focus on, my friend...

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    Are you just on here trolling J Scott? Or can you simply not read. Let me say it again - EUROPE IS A DISASTER! The Euro is at least as bad as the dollar.

    Are you just trolling J Scott, or can you really not read? I just said that I believed that real estate will always have value, whether it's valued in dollars, gold, or something else. How you could read that to mean that I am 100% convinced that my investment is going to zero is beyond me.

    Ridiculous...but what else could we expect from a troll!

  • Property Manager · Passaic, NJ · Member since 2008 · 369 posts · 83 votes
    16y

    Whether dollar or euro, there will still remain value. I say bury it and keep it safe-the bank is paying next to nothing anyway. Real estate will retain value-the question is will we still own it or will a way be found to tax the crap out of us for owning it.

    We all know our country is in a very bad place and we live in a very controlled environment. Have you ever noticed when a snowstorm is coming the shelves are bare-no milk, bread or eggs? What would happen if the food trucks didn't deliver? If the welfare checks, unemployment checks, SSI checks got cut-rioting, looting...to name a few. Our real estate taxes are climbing, foreclosures rising, services and education being drastically cut.

    No matter who we put in charge at the top of the food chain that person has a very difficult task ahead...

  • Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by Rich Weese:
    Carlton, I have to disagree with you.The top 1% pay nearly 40% of the taxes. That 1% PROBALY is smart enuff to get richer. However , the number of rich and actual taxpayers are dropping every year. If the debt continues, and you live long enuff, you will run out of taxable base of population. It will happen unless major changes, soon. Rich

    In a real free market, I would agree that punishing the rich is not only unfair and immoral but counter productive. However, we don't have a free market. We have a corporate / Wall Street driven market that reward the incompetents with unimaginable bonuses, giving free money to investment banks and other financial institutes so they can to turn around and charge us, the tax payers enormous amount of money in interest. This is no longer about opportunities but about opportunists.

    The middle class feels so screwed up, that it is easy (and to a certain extend -justified) for the government to act as Robin Hoods...

  • Investor · Mableton, GA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    16y
    Originally posted by MikeOH:


    If you can tell me what to do with the money after I sell all my real estate, I'll do it! Otherwise, I maintain that my strategy is logical and appropriate.


    Going back to the old argument... I'd say sell your real Estate, enlarge your bunker and invest in nonperishable food, guns, ammo, water and fuel....That would be the commodity to have if you really believe in the doom and gloom...
  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    I suppose that's true, but when you need a $100 TRILLION note to buy a loaf of bread (like in Zimbabwe), it's not MUCH value.

    If there were a real emergency and the food deliveries stop - the stores will be empty in less than a day. Even in Katrina, Walmart was stripped bare! The average person in the United States only has 3 days of food. When an emergency occurs, we're only 9 meals from societal breakdown (if we're lucky).

    SO TRUE!

    In this case, Robin Hood is stealing from the middle class and giving it to the Fat Cats on Wall Street!

    In Ohio, we don't call them bunkers, we call them basements (and almost everyone has one). As for selling my real estate to buy food, I don't think that's necessary. I can buy plenty of food and ammo without selling my rentals.

  • Real Estate Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    16y

    Eddie, I agree with you partially. We do have CEOs with lobbying money who are taking some of our money. It is ridiculous. But we also have unions and government employees who are taking our money. The latter is particularly bad because they are able to influence policy both with their lobbying and with their votes. Just imagine how circular the influence has become - government employees influencing elections so that they could have higher salaries, less work and more people to influence the next election even more.

    If you look at where all the money is going, you will notice that it mostly goes to the middle class. And it is mostly paif for by the wealthy. I think that is simply wrong.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    16y
    Originally posted by MikeOH:
    Originally posted by Ingrid:
    Whether dollar or euro, there will still remain value.


    I suppose that's true...


    So, in your first post in this thread, it was the end of civilization as we know it, but now the dollar will still retain some value...

    Nice job hedging your bet...

    And you thought I was the one who was trolling...you just like hearing yourself speak...
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