How do you buy silver?
Real Estate Investor · Frisco, TX, TX · Member since 2010 · 388 posts · 138 votes
On another thread there has been some discussion on buying silver. Since I have been wanting to buy but am unsure I thought I would start a different thread for that. Here is my question. I go online to a site like:
http://www.providentmetals.com/bullion/silver/private-slv/100-ozt-bar.html
There are so many different types/brands of silver bars, how do I know which one to buy? or would you not rather buy bars but something different?
This is one of your better sites to buy gold and silver:
They show the spreads between buy and sell, they sell all denominations of coins with the 1/10 ounce American Gold Eagle being the most popular.
Good Luck
chris is correct. it would apply to gold and silver transactions effective jan 1 2012. we'll see if it sticks though. a lot can happen in the next 6 months....
http://www.thedailycrux.com/content/5209/Precious_Metals
Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the long lines at coin shops in the early 80s composed of people standing in line to "buy" gold. And not to "sell" their gold? If that's the case we're not there yet. And the drivers to buy gold are bigger this time around.
I am using the real estate bubble model. If gold was real estate, it feels like we are in early to mid 2004. Think of late 2005/2006. Anyone in the mainstream talking about a "real estate crash" was touted as crazy. That is my equivalent sell signal for gold.
Silver on the other hand has been suppressed so much that it may rise all the way to a 20:1 ratio to gold before correcting a bit. The parabolic rise is scary. I wouldn't buy now. A dollar a day rise can't go on forever. There will be some short *probably big* pullback coming soon.
If you wait until the signs say we sell gold it will be too late to short...I believe right now is the time to short, my reasoning, everyone of you thinks now is the time to buy...that top is coming a lot closer than you think.
I am not sure where you are getting "everyone of you thinks now is the time to buy." I am not buying now. I believe summer could be a good time to buy.
Either way, yes, if you believe shorting is the way to go no one is advising you differently. I am just saying I am not shorting. You could certainly do well on your short.
If any of your clients decide to take PHYSICAL delivery please report their experience to us. If it's for fun trading those ETFs seem solid.
If it is really a safety play the general consensus in the gold communities is that like fractional reserve banking those ETFs will have trouble if enough people request delivery. There are already rumors floating around about SLV payouts way over the spot price because large investors wanted physical delivery and the ETF could not deliver the physical metal.
For speculation yes. For security, if you can't hold it you don't own it.
matty,
not sure where you heard the info about not being able to deliver. i'd be interested in seeing that. all analyst reports that i've read including the fund reports state that the physical bullion is held directly in the vault. with that being said, delivery 'shouldn't' be an issue, though, again, its etf investing against a physical security and not investing in a physical security.
commodity and currency investing is not for the faint of heart. i certainly wouldn't advise anyone in investing the farm in it though, it may hold a place in a properly diversified portfolio.
also, the only clients that i have that hold it physically are a few coin dealer clients. shipping, storage, security, etc can def eat up a lot of costs and i am not an advocate of holding large amounts in hand.
i had 1 client who wanted to invest a 'sizeable amount' of money into gold and wanted physical bullion. i asked him what a 'sizeable amount' was and he said 5-10k lol. i told him that at $1500 an ounce, he wouldn't get much. infact, i compared it to the 16oz steak that he orders. he woudn't even own half the weight in gold. it was pretty eye opening for him.
not sure where you heard the info about not being able to deliver. i'd be interested in seeing that. all analyst reports that i've read including the fund reports state that the physical bullion is held directly in the vault. with that being said, delivery 'shouldn't' be an issue, though, again, its etf investing against a physical security and not investing in a physical security.
commodity and currency investing is not for the faint of heart. i certainly wouldn't advise anyone in investing the farm in it though, it may hold a place in a properly diversified portfolio.
also, the only clients that i have that hold it physically are a few coin dealer clients. shipping, storage, security, etc can def eat up a lot of costs and i am not an advocate of holding large amounts in hand.
i had 1 client who wanted to invest a 'sizeable amount' of money into gold and wanted physical bullion. i asked him what a 'sizeable amount' was and he said 5-10k lol. i told him that at $1500 an ounce, he wouldn't get much. infact, i compared it to the 16oz steak that he orders. he woudn't even own half the weight in gold. it was pretty eye opening for him.
I just looked up the source for that. It was nothing but a rumor in started in a comments thread on yahoo finance. Basically an anonymous poster is claiming he was paid 70% over spot because SLV could not deliver.
Given the context I do not lend much credence to that statement.
However, there endless articles on sites like zerohedge.com about price suppression through comex, and the likely hood of a comex default if physical was requested for enough contracts. These are opinions of many including the leader of Gata. I believe Jim Rogers and also Peter Schiff.
Another way to look at is this: Last week, why would Texas University take delivery of 1 billion in gold bars when they could just hold GLD ?
Answer: According to zerohedge TU firmly believes comex can't deliver.
I posted earlier in this thread. I'm one that doesn't look at gold from the investment aspect, more from the security aspect. It is only part of my holdings, but like most of my real estate, it is not to be sold.
Just like in RE, I don't want to own a portion of an llc etc. I want to own the phsical- in RE and in precious metals. No paper holdings for me.I do like silver a little more in my arena, because even a 1/10 oz gold coin is going to be approaching $200. The junk silver coins are much easier to place value in a trade for something I may need down the line. Rich
Long time lurker - first time poster :)
I am a holder of both (I consider gold my savings account and silver my mid-term speculative investments, with real estate being long term) and have used online sites to do so.
One more note - Obama recently signed a bill that repealed the tax requirement on 600$ transfers - http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/15/obama-healthcare-tax-idUSTRE73E6K220110415
Thanks for the great site everyone!
Rich, I am the same with my gold; It is physical, I can hold it, and I am not selling.
Silver is more a speculative play based on the fundamentals; I got lucky and did not buy in the 90s when it was dead or I would prob have been turned off...
I think paper gold and paper silver are just for speculating. There is a difference between allocated and eligible bullion; one is counted as being able to deliver, the other is counted as reserved, cannot be leased out, etc. Too many sources have stated that the amount leased out is to high compared to the amount in holding (similar to the goldsmiths in antiquity...) See Eric Sprott for a good analysis of this.
People I read in this issue are:
Jim Sinclair
Marc Faber
Jim Rogers
Peter Schiff
The Turd Ferguson :)
GATA
But educate yourself.
Read Henry Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson", it can be found online for free. Read The Creature from Jekyll Island. Understand what is going on.
No, I do not think gold is in a bubble yet, though it will be. The fundamentals which are causing it to rise are still there, and if anything worse, meaning a stronger case for gold. It looks that it is in a bubble because the dollar and other papers are devaluing, confidence is decreasing... but gold is holding value and actually increasing it these days.
I am curious: lets start an informal poll. How many people of all the people you know own gold. Not paper gold. Actual gold coins, bars, etc, something they can hold. I know four people of all the people I know. Many are in real estate, many in stocks, but only four in gold. Two of them I explained, they read, they read some more, I explained some more, they read some more, all the while gold was rising, then they bought. One asked me "but what do I do when gold is 3-5k per ounce or whatever point I want to sell? I just get worthless paper in exchange..." I said at that point you exchange that worthless paper for real estate. I explained that in my opinion real estate would continue to drop while gold and silver would continue to rise. At some point it would become obvious to make the exchange. It was like a visible click and the light went on in his head. He said: Oh, Ok. hung up the phone and went to buy gold (Dec 2008) and silver. I am pretty proud that I helped him out...
On the other hand are the 10-15 others who when I explain, the say it is too expensive, they would like to see it cheaper before they buy. This same story since 700, 800, 1000 (esp here, such a psychological thing), 1200, 1300, 1400, and of course now, it is really expensive at 1500. Funny how it has been in a bubble the whole way, but they could not see the stock market bubbles, the housing bubble, etc. And same with the media, they did not see the stock and housing bubbles, yet they are calling a bubble in gold.
Ok, gotta run.
Tony
Futures contracts, go big or go home
Justin,
Ever traded before? Just curious. I traded for 10 years in Chicago. Would like to know your experience in trading futures if you're recommending them.
You can buy the ETF SLV.
not sure where you heard the info about not being able to deliver. i'd be interested in seeing that. all analyst reports that i've read including the fund reports state that the physical bullion is held directly in the vault. with that being said, delivery 'shouldn't' be an issue, though, again, its etf investing against a physical security and not investing in a physical security.
commodity and currency investing is not for the faint of heart. i certainly wouldn't advise anyone in investing the farm in it though, it may hold a place in a properly diversified portfolio.
also, the only clients that i have that hold it physically are a few coin dealer clients. shipping, storage, security, etc can def eat up a lot of costs and i am not an advocate of holding large amounts in hand.
i had 1 client who wanted to invest a 'sizeable amount' of money into gold and wanted physical bullion. i asked him what a 'sizeable amount' was and he said 5-10k lol. i told him that at $1500 an ounce, he wouldn't get much. infact, i compared it to the 16oz steak that he orders. he woudn't even own half the weight in gold. it was pretty eye opening for him.
I just looked up the source for that. It was nothing but a rumor in started in a comments thread on yahoo finance. Basically an anonymous poster is claiming he was paid 70% over spot because SLV could not deliver.
Given the context I do not lend much credence to that statement.
However, there endless articles on sites like zerohedge.com about price suppression through comex, and the likely hood of a comex default if physical was requested for enough contracts. These are opinions of many including the leader of Gata. I believe Jim Rogers and also Peter Schiff.
Another way to look at is this: Last week, why would Texas University take delivery of 1 billion in gold bars when they could just hold GLD ?
Answer: According to zerohedge TU firmly believes comex can't deliver.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42682491
"It really isn't for everyone. We had gotten to a size and our thought was that we probably will have our position for a longer, as opposed to shorter term, although we could sell at anytime."
"But rather than continuously roll the futures contracts, it just became easier and more economically for us to take possession of the bullion," he explained.
You watch Cramer? After the Bear Stearns fiasco(also his recommendations of Wachovia and CIT) I stopped watching him and decided I rather trust some guy off the street for investment advice then him.
not sure where you heard the info about not being able to deliver. i'd be interested in seeing that. all analyst reports that i've read including the fund reports state that the physical bullion is held directly in the vault. with that being said, delivery 'shouldn't' be an issue, though, again, its etf investing against a physical security and not investing in a physical security.
commodity and currency investing is not for the faint of heart. i certainly wouldn't advise anyone in investing the farm in it though, it may hold a place in a properly diversified portfolio.
also, the only clients that i have that hold it physically are a few coin dealer clients. shipping, storage, security, etc can def eat up a lot of costs and i am not an advocate of holding large amounts in hand.
i had 1 client who wanted to invest a 'sizeable amount' of money into gold and wanted physical bullion. i asked him what a 'sizeable amount' was and he said 5-10k lol. i told him that at $1500 an ounce, he wouldn't get much. infact, i compared it to the 16oz steak that he orders. he woudn't even own half the weight in gold. it was pretty eye opening for him.
I just looked up the source for that. It was nothing but a rumor in started in a comments thread on yahoo finance. Basically an anonymous poster is claiming he was paid 70% over spot because SLV could not deliver.
Given the context I do not lend much credence to that statement.
However, there endless articles on sites like zerohedge.com about price suppression through comex, and the likely hood of a comex default if physical was requested for enough contracts. These are opinions of many including the leader of Gata. I believe Jim Rogers and also Peter Schiff.
Another way to look at is this: Last week, why would Texas University take delivery of 1 billion in gold bars when they could just hold GLD ?
Answer: According to zerohedge TU firmly believes comex can't deliver.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42682491
"It really isn't for everyone. We had gotten to a size and our thought was that we probably will have our position for a longer, as opposed to shorter term, although we could sell at anytime."
"But rather than continuously roll the futures contracts, it just became easier and more economically for us to take possession of the bullion," he explained.
That could be part of the reason. However, in this specific time period we're in I tend to lend more credence to sites like zerohedge over CNBC when it comes to precious metals.
In fact in early 09 when TU started buying at $950, the consensus on CNBC would have been "You're crazy." I certainly don't believe you'll hear CNBC talking about a potential comex default - YET. At this time anyone talking about a potential comex default on CNBC would also get a "You're Crazy"
If it's on CNBC it's too late.
I am waiting for the CNBC mainstream talking heads to be bullish on gold. Once the consensus from CNBC is, "Anyone NOT buying physical gold and silver is crazy" . That will be part of my sell signal.
Matty, I am in the same boat. Almost nobody I know owns gold or silver, and when I suggest that they are going up and have been for a long time, people say they are too expensive now, that they are in a bubble. I wonder how they can be in a bubble when almost nobody is buying them, silver is in a supply / demand imbalance where it is being used as fast as it is mined and most silver that is used is used in such minute amounts that it is not economically recoverable (think cell phones, other electronics, etc, very small amounts very widely dispersed).
I agree that when the biggest detractors of gold and silver (media, some people I know) switch to being supporters/buyers, then I will know it is time to be gone. At that point my plan is to cash out and buy as much real estate as I can. Prime farmland, income properties, etc.
The bubbles are the same, or rather they follow the same patterns. First the moves are steady, and people are dismissing them left and right. Then they start moving up a bit stronger, and some people make some money. After this people start to think that there is money to be made, and here is where the speculators / gamblers jump in. Some of them make money, and then there becomes a mad rush to join the sure thing (see tech bubble, people quitting their jobs to day trade convince that they were geniuses when in actuality is was just an upwards moving market, housing bubble when people adding on, buying rental properties for appreciation, cashing out bubble equity in their house believing they would never have to actually pay it, the next buyer would pay it). So when this mad rush happens, when the media is breathlessly extolling the advantages of safe money, that gold is the way to go, Cramer is pimping mining stocks, my friends who love to argue about gold/silver even tho they cannot disagree that it has been a great investment for a long time now decide that I am not just lucky and they should join the parade, that gold and silver are "Going to the Moon!!!", then I will sell most of what I have. And exchange it for real estate via dollars. I plan to have the dollars long enough to make the transition, but no longer.
That is my plan. Do I have my total net worth in gold/silver? No, because I am not so conceited/ignorant/proud/brave to think that I am 100% right, my crystal ball is gone, remember? So this is just a hedge. I still have some cash, some stocks (less and less), some real estate... etc, so the PMs are a hedge that if something happens like has happened every other time in history (and I do not think this time is different, other than when it happens this time it will be worse) then I have a plan to put in place to get through it.
Here is an interesting interview about the dollar. Not much about silver or gold in there, but after reading the article you may have some idea why some buy gold/silver/real estate to hedge against the dollar:
http://www.chrismartenson.com/page/transcript-axel-merk-why-anyone-still-waiting-sell-dollar
I am not trying to convert anyone to PMs, just pointing out that there is an argument to be made for owning them, just as there are arguments for saying that real estate has a long way to fall yet...
Tony.
Tony it appears we think a like on many levels. We appear to have similar real estate acquisition strategies as well.
I will check out that article later today. Thanks
Matty, another version of the could not deliver story:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/slavo/slavo35.1.html
Interesting times, silver over 50, gold shooting up... is it time to buy silver and gold (in other words, is it time to sell dollars?)
We live in very interesting times, I think those of us who are alive with grandkids 40-50 years from now will have very strange stories to tell.
Tony
I wonder what is so complicated about it? Theres a lot of silver on ebay and as long as it's.999 pure youll have no problem reselling. Its always market price or nearby and following the trend. If youre still unsure just buy something like credit suisse. Also because of shipping expenses be sure to buy a decent size piece, over $100 worth. In the long run you'll resell eventually on the same terms and feedback works. Good investing.
GLD is already up to 147.40 this morning, before the market has opened.
Looks like a good short would have been this morning at about 48.20. Currently around 46.30. I'd possibly go short on a bump around around 48.00 with a stop a little above 50.00. Short term trade. For me, it would have to happen in the next hour or two.
I am not shorting at $50. But I would not be surprised to see silver go on sale soon. Perhaps down to $32.00 an OZ. I consider that a nice buying opportunity.
Shorting on a parabolic spike sounds dangerous. Part of the recent spike might be huge shorts getting squeezed out at this time. That and Chinese buying.
However you never know. Bernanke is doing a press conference on Wednesday. The phrase "buy the rumor sell the news" just might fit here.
Long term the trend is still up, IMHO
Matty- $32? Gut feeling or solid research? I don't invest in metals, but I'll buy a bit if it EVER drops below $35. I just don't see it. Rich
SLV, the ETF, or Apmex.com for physical, Ebay works to if you buy from a powerseller.
Here's the end of the day Market Commentary from the exchange:
The silver market exploded to new all time highs and in the process silver garnered even more press coverage suggesting that silver was assuming the leadership role in the precious metals complex. Certainly silver was lifted by the talk that China might buy some silver with some of its currency reserve stash as silver is generally thought to be tightening its overall supply to a precarious condition. The bull camp will suggest that the majority of the tightness in silver is the result of implied or investment demand but as long as the investors want to hold that supply, the physical users will have to bid for that supply. From a technical perspective the rate of gain in silver has left some players concerned that prices are at least short term overbought.
The GLOBEX trading right now has the May contract around 46.80. Short term top in place? Next couple of days will be interesting.