National security threats. Which is the worst?
Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
Simple poll-
Which of the following in your mind is the most threatening to our National security? In alphabetical order.
1. national debt
2. rogue nations
3. terrorism
4. unsecured borders
These are all potentially a nightmare. Which is your # 1? Rich
For some perspective, live outside the country for awhile. I can remember our plane sitting on the tarmac at the Italian airport outside of Milan surrounded by soldiers with machine guns. This was in 1987. They took terrorism very seriously and there was no jetway, you had to walk into the terminal.
To get a visa into France, interrogation was the norm.
Driving around Italy, we'd get pulled over by the police at least once a week and have to show our papers that allowed us to be in the country. My blonde hair probably contributed to our racial profiling and most people thought we were Swiss.
Sure, it was slightly annoying to be pulled over all the time, (at least it wasn't for speeding) but it's their country and they make the rules. You wanna live there, you abide by them.
Immigration becomes a security threat when citizens are outnumbered in their own community by people that have no vested interest in keeping the standard of living that Americans enjoy. It's supposed to be the UNITED States of America.
First- some replies
Diane- congrats on your decision to move to TX.I'll always keep at least one home there. Best state in Nation,,,by far.
Bryan- If TX secedes, population will boom and R.E. will be fantastic. I'd return in a heartbeat if TX secedes.
MD- you don't link terrorism with a porous southern border? Sorry, thats just nuts, imo.Only time before one will succeed that entered through open border.
Your east coast bias is showing in your reply. Living part time in AZ, having many friends and seeing the illegals in action, you're wrong on your premise and conclusion. Do you really think the law enforcement folks, border patrol and overloaded prisons mean nothing? You need to do more footwork in AZ and you'll come to a more educated determination.
Now for the poll. It was posted this morning on the news. There were no definitions of terms, no caveats, etc. There were also no #'s as to respondents, dates etc.
52% national debt
3% rogue nations
5% terrorism
40% unsecure borders
Just the messenger, although I would've selected national debt as #1 and boreders # 2. I have many posts on here already about my concern on financial standing of the U.S. Rich
"You need to do more footwork in AZ and you'll come to a more educated determination. "
No you need to do more footwork and wake up. These are words that came out of the mouth of people living in Arizona. I am sorry it doesn't fit in with your agenda. If you are scared of Mexico then your eyes are sewn shut, they are the least of our problems.
MD- love the "attack the messenger" bit. Yup- Your words came out of AZ illegal immigrants or those backing them up. I'll accept the words of the lawmen instead AND the legals that live there.
MD- My agenda, if I have one is to have the laws of the land followed. Having not lived in MD but Rio Grande , TX, so Cal, and Casa grande, AZ, I'm in pretty good touch with the situation.
The facts are the facts- How many illegals are in the U.S.? 14 million? That seems to be enough. I'm tired of giving them freebies that legal citizens don't even receive. Get rid of them, period.
I haven't mentioned any one country, I don't care which it is. Illegal means illegal. I appreciate Mexico letting me own property and visit. I do it legally. I accept their rules about visiting and immigration. I only ask for them to abide by the same when they want to come to my country. That seems fair.
We can't afford the freebies. Here is an article that says we spend 100 MILLION dollars just to fly the illegals out of U.S. this year. That doesn't count the expenses of border patrol, holding cells, and jail time. 100 Million.
Economies of TX, Az etc are affected negatively by these illegals, period.
TC- no hope with MD, but fun to point out the facts for east coast know it alls, because they listened to illegals protesting to get their info. I'll continue to support the laws and lawmen.Why have all the Sheriffs bound together to fight it? They must all be very misled, mean spirited people. Rich
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700064018/Deportation-Day-Family-torn-apart-as-husband-heads-to-Mexico.html?pg=1
What scares me most, especially since we are focused on becoming a society living in constant fear, and this should be #5 is the fact that our future generation is ill-prepared to tackle any of these situations. Our future generation is not only ill-prepared but plain stupid because they are caught up in self-indulgent "look at me I'm at Starbucks right now" phenomena of FaceBook, Twitter and the like. So finally when they do get to the point where they need to be socially and politically conscious and make a change they are neither smart enough nor creative enough to find ideal situations/alternatives. They grasp the same archaic ideas of their fore fathers - the ones that didn't work: fear mongering, nationalism and hate.
Let me turn the table on you. An AZ highway patrol officer pulls over a van for speeding. The driverly looks hispanic and barely speaks english, and doesn't have a drivers licence. There are about twently disshoveled hispanic people packed in the back of the van like sardines. Non speak english. Most apear dehydrated. The officer, under the new law, asks the driver and people in the back (in his/her limited though functional spanish) if they are documented (Hola amigos, tiene usted papeles?).
You call than racial profiling?
You actually have a problem with that? Why?
Tom, this was your post that I responded to and then you edited it. Stop being silly. In either case, you guys are right about one thing, since we live in different parts of the country, we feel differently about the issue. I am not scared or worried about anyone from Mexico.
Let me turn the table on you...In the interests of not being kinder and gentler we soften the borders and someone sneaks in a bomb and blows up several major cities at the same time with BOMBS. Like it or not secure borders make the nation safer.
I am scared of people from other countries because their immigration policies suck even more than ours and they let people INTO OUR COUNTRY via porous borders TO KILL US.
For some perspective, live outside the country for awhile. I can remember our plane sitting on the tarmac at the Italian airport outside of Milan surrounded by soldiers with machine guns. This was in 1987. They took terrorism very seriously and there was no jetway, you had to walk into the terminal.
To get a visa into France, interrogation was the norm.
Driving around Italy, we'd get pulled over by the police at least once a week and have to show our papers that allowed us to be in the country. My blonde hair probably contributed to our racial profiling and most people thought we were Swiss.
Sure, it was slightly annoying to be pulled over all the time, (at least it wasn't for speeding) but it's their country and they make the rules. You wanna live there, you abide by them.
Immigration becomes a security threat when citizens are outnumbered in their own community by people that have no vested interest in keeping the standard of living that Americans enjoy. It's supposed to be the UNITED States of America.
Tom
My appologies about my comment that terroists can come from Hawaii; but, I think you know who I was referring to. You have been voted up by me.
I have spent some time in Indonesia on a business trip years ago. I was scared to death that I would forget my passport and not have it on me when pulled over. I had to show it at least a couple of times a day when in the major cities. I didn't even think about being racially profiled then. I just considered the place I was in and they wasn't going to put up with any crap. Just days after I returned to the states, the team I left behind had to hide away from the musilum extremist in Jakarta. A year or two later, a night club in Bali was blown up in their God's name. This is the closest I have been to terroist. But, it left an impression. Their God tells them to kill me because I do not beleave in him. Think about some of the attacks they have comitted. Most are cowardly. But, some are ingenious. That is why I fear the ultimate attack will come from within; up to and including placing people in leadership roles that can wreck our ecomomy. I sure hope our eyes are opened up before it is too late.
Don
#5 - Homegrown terror http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_terror_report
Using a more traditional definition of "national security", the biggest long-term threat is obviously China. That's what our defense department also believes.
That threat will be hastened by our rapid relative decline because so many people seem to think that the government is the answer to all problems. As long as we continue to increase the size of the government and increase taxes and regulations, we will continue to watch other countries speeding ahead of us.
As James said, you need a strong economy to have a strong military (ask the Soviets about this) and a highly regulated and bureaucratic country is not going to cut it.
As Mikepointed out, we all as citizens must show I.D. if pulled over or detained.
I personally have been stopped by the police numerous times over the last 27 years-my driving career with a lead foot-and I have been detained a few times at the county bed and breakfast in my younger wilder years,
In every instance I was required to show proof that I was who I claimed to be. That did not seem like an unreasonable request to me. So why is it unreasonable for AZ or any police officer to ask for whatever type of I.D. you carry that says who you are and where you live.
It is what law enforcement does across the board when they stop someone . That is not profiling.
BTW I am currently going through the process of having to prove to the state of Illinois that I am who I am - because some ***-clown gave false info when he was pulled over and the name or birthdate or whatever got tied to my license in Mo. End result is that I cannot re-new my drivers license until they are sure that I am not him
So what exactly is wrong with being required to carry proper identification?
Christopher, there is nothing wrong as long as its done uniformly and not to just hispanic people. All you guys are talking about idealistic searches not reality. If you create a law specific to one race of people it is racial profiling period. If Arizona had any brains, what they would've done was say anyone living in the state must carry proof of citizenship at all times. Had they done this, no racial profiling claims could be made.
I have no problem with a uniform policy that does not involve profiling. What I do have a problem with is people claiming that porous borders aren't a national security concern. That is Looney Tunes wacky to me. Can someone please explain it to me?
Bryan, no one says it's not a national security concern. The problem is certain right wing maniacs act like Mexico is Americas biggest threat and its not. As Vikram mentioned, there are other countries that are a big threat to national security that right wing loons never mention. Also, please tell me the last time we had a terrorist attack where they came thru the borders illegally to get here. I agree that we don't want very porous borders, but creating media hype against Mexico is a fools game.
People ARE claiming that porous borders are not a national security problem. That is the problem with what I have seen on the back and forth on this thread. We can debate immigration policy forever and people won't agree on things. It is simply A FACT that open borders IS BAD for national security. If someone denies this I simply don't see any point in having a rational debate with them. They are too blind to the FACTS to engage in a debate with them.
Remember that this thread is about national security...not immigration policy.
Bryan, thank you for reposting the same question that you did not answer because you cannot answer. My explanation was very clear. Please do not lodge personal attacks because of your inability to answer a basic question-what terrorists have come in through our borders?
What personal attack?!
Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean that it won't. I have posted this several times across many threads and the people that want to whine about us enforcing the laws of our land never address it. It is a big problem and it has to do with national security concerns.
If people want to immigrate here...fine. Just do it LEGALLY so that I don't have to worry about them sneaking in stuff to kill us with.
What explanation are you referring to? That it hasn't happened? I haven't been run over by a car yet, but I still look both ways when I cross the street.
Sorry MD i'm confused, who exactly created a law that was race specific since the emancipation proclamation?
technically that wasn't race specific either. Being in the country illegaly has nothing to do with race .
If ILLEGAL immigration weren't a problem especially in the southern border states then people wouldn't be in such a tizzy over it. These aren't people who just have extra time on their hands. And you can't possibly believe they are all racists either.
If this many people have an issue with something then there may be something to it
Why do we have a problem with Mexico?
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/10/violence-throughout-chihuahua-takes-25-lives/?iref=allsearch
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/09/09/mexico.juarez.killing/index.html?iref=allsearch
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/16/autopsy-murdered-arizona-rancher-shot-multiple-times/
I have been trying to avoid this immigration-national-security nonsense for a while but thought I might share some data. If anyone here likes to form opinions based on data (as opposed to anecdotal news) here's something worth considering:
The U.S. has the highest homicide rate of all the major English-speaking countries.
The homicide rate in the U.S. is 3 times that of the other major countries (U.K., Canada, Australia.)
Mexico's homicide rate is about 3 times that of the U.S.
I guess Canadians can erect a wall to protect themselves from violent Americans while Americans erect a wall to protect themselves from violent Mexicans.
Within the U.S., the highest homicide rates are in states that do not have a very large Mexican population. For example, Alaska, Tennessee and Lousiana substantially exceed California or Arizona.
Another interesting thing about the data is that the southern states seem to be the most violent and have historically been so. The more peaceful people of the West Coast may be safer if walls were erected to prevent Southerners from coming here.
Vikram- sorry, but I don't think suicide arguments have anything to do with this thread. Many reasons for violence in various states, so I won't go further off on that tangent.
MD- I suggest you read the potential law that DOJ is fighting. Show me anything on profiling. OR, read the bill that is ALREADY on the books in AZ dealing with this same subject, and show me your profiling claim
OR, read any of the 21 bills in OTHER states that are working their way through the system. Then show me any profile.
It appears to be the same for all. IF you're stopped, show your identification. If you can't, then why? Did you leave it at homme? Work? Don't have any? Why?
Those seem like pretty simple questions for all and should be able to be answered by ALL, regardless of language, height, weight, color etc.
Anyone on here actually seen the BILLION dollar wall between tx,mx? I have and actually have pictures. The major gaps in the fence make it a farce and obama knows it.
No one will ever convince me that border security is a priority of obama and others. They want the illegal votes to keep them in power, imo. Rich