Is A College Degree Worthless These Days???
Investor · United States · Member since 2018 · 565 posts · 356 votes
So many people are graduating college every year with tens of thousands of dollars of debt. Many of these graduates are having a hard time finding jobs that pay 50K+. It doesn't make sense to me to "invest" all of this money into system that doesn't give you a good ROI. Am I just biased and short sighted or am I missing something here? I'm open to all opinions...
College graduates make more money than high school graduates.
The more money you make in a W2 job, the better chance you have of saving money and having good credit.
The more money and better credit you have, the better chance you have of getting loans
Getting favorable loans gives you a better chance of scaling your real estate portfolio.
Bottom line, getting a college degree increases your chances of building a real estate portfolio.
If you get a degree, with the purpose of getting a high paying job, and dont get a high paying job, it's because you're not willing to do what it takes to get that job.
@Account Closed,
Everyone wants to be an investor, but you gotta remember-- step 1 is income/ability to invest.
Is it worth it for a degree in STEM- absolutely... psychology/philosophy- probably not, unless it's your passion.
You don't need a college degree, but you need a skill-- look at technical training programs (plumbing/HVAC/etc), or getting a license to do something (get your CDL and become a truck driver?) -- if you don't have any type of skill, there's no difference from you and the next HS graduate, and no reason you should get paid more than minimum wage IMO. Focus on skills!
That's exactly it Linda!
High income skills are how you can get more money coming in. I've always said to people trying to create financial success that getting to $100,000 per month is going to be a lot easier if you're already making $10K or $20K per month than if you're making $3,000 per month.
Getting a CDL license could be the difference between making $40K per year and $100K and trust me that is enough to turn your entire life around. Plus you have ZERO debt.
There are a lot of jobs out there that don't involve sales abilities if that's not your thing that can make a $100,000 per year or more.
Thanks!
Here in the states I would not have gone to college.
The secret, easy, find a program in Europe that accepts international students and convert you degree to the US system.
I am from Spain, I have lived in the US for the last 4 years. I have always been shocked by the amount of money the american youth owes at a young age.
I studied my bachelor's degree in Spain and spend $1800 total.
Last year, I did an online masters online from an accredited university in Spain for $3000 total.
Then, you pay about $200 to transfer your degree to the US system. There are several organizations that can do that. And.. Voila! You have a degree worth the same as the thousands of dollars people pay here in the US and 0 debt.
That's brilliant!
I never would have thought of something like that.
You see that's the kind of 'outside the box' thinking that young people don't have. They just drink the kool-aid and head off to college owing 10's of thousands of dollars by the time they're done. And if they're lucky they'll make $50,000 per year.
Thanks.
@Jason D. Earning more equals saving more? I can't quote stats but I would question if that is the reality in most cases. Also if a degree is so helpful, how do we explain the correlation between a higher number of people having college degrees than ever before, yet savings rates and debt are worse? What many fail to account for is the human element in this equation.
I believe there are degrees that can be beneficial...if someone is intentional. I just don't subscribe to the oversold idea that it's necessary to be successful. College degrees cost more than they ever have and appear to be worth less than they ever have.
@Jason D. Earning more equals saving more? I can't quote stats but I would question if that is the reality in most cases. Also if a degree is so helpful, how do we explain the correlation between a higher number of people having college degrees than ever before, yet savings rates and debt are worse? What many fail to account for is the human element in this equation.
I believe there are degrees that can be beneficial...if someone is intentional. I just don't subscribe to the oversold idea that it's necessary to be successful. College degrees cost more than they ever have and appear to be worth less than they ever have.
I didnt say that earning more equals saving more, I said earning more gives you a better chance to save more.
If your intention is to get into real estate investing, your odds if success increases as your income increases.
Statistically, you'll make more money as a college graduate.
There is several things you can do to reduce the cost of college and increase the benefit:
1. Take AP classes in high school. You should be able to graduate high school with at least three college classes completed and could be as many as six. This by itself saves thousands and allows you to graduate faster.
2. Go to a community college for your basic classes. Taking Accounting 1 at a community college is no different than taking it at a huge university, besides lower cost.
3. Transfer to a state university to finish your degree. Ideally pick one that is close to your parents house, so you can live at home and save expense.
4. Only take classes that count towards your degree. People register for classes they don't need and change degrees, both of which delay graduation and cost extra money. Plan ahead and don't take "Pottery 101" just because it sees like fun.
5. Pick a degree with high earning potential. Medical, accounting, engineering, computer science, attorney, business, marketing are all in demand degrees. I know many people in their early 30's making $120K per year in a low cost market.
6. Don't make the mistake of looking at starting salaries as the "end game". Someone in their 20's with college degree is often compared to someone in their 20's that pursued a trade (such as plumbing for example). Early on the salaries may not be much different. The difference is career potential. There is massive potential for upward mobility with a college degree, versus in the trades the salaries stay flatter over time.
7. Avoid private colleges. They cost way too much money and often don't produce higher earning potential that a state school. If mom and dad are paying, then no problem. but don't take out loans for a private school.
As far as if a college degree is worthless these days, I would argue far from it. I work at a fortune 200 company and we require a college degree for most every job. Even customer service. We don't require it for production workers, but if you want to be a production supervisor or manager, a degree is required.
Of course if you are starting your own business, a degree is not required. You could argue it will help you succeed though. A degree is also not required for many sales positions such as real estate sales or car sales. You can do very well in sales without any degree, but it takes a special skill set (not book smarts, but people smarts).
I always give advice for people to go to college, because the fact are the facts. College graduates make significantly more than those with only high school education. That is statistically of course, so there are exceptions. Every time one of these discussions appears on BP, there is always people saying "I didn't graduate college and I make six figures". Of course that will happen! But the reality is that only a small percentage of people have what it takes to succeed in business or sales. The vast majority are better off pursuing a degree because they fit better in a W2 career.
It is hard, but each individual needs to be honest with themselves about what type of person they are. Can you beat the odds and be a non-college graduate making more than a college graduate? The reason parents tell their kids to go to college, is because they know it is the safe decision.
As far as practical degrees for someone interested in the STR business, any business or marketing degree will be helpful as you grow your business. There is even colleges that offer specialized degrees in Hotel Management.
A degree still has a lot of value. Just don't go hundreds of thousands into debt to get one. @Joe Splitrock gives some good advice.
It's a little bit of a double-edged sword. Most decent jobs are going to require a college degree. But getting a college degree doesn't at all guarantee getting you a job, and gives you tons in debt.
If you have the skills and talent to do something like REI, then no need for the degree. But if there's any questions about that, it's safer to get the degree. But in my opinion, the way to work that is to get a degree in something that will get you the most amount of information that would be fluid to helping you do whatever it is you might want to do later. For instance, a degree in psychology just to have a degree won't give you much to teach you to run a business. A degree in business though would give you those classes (not saying anyone with an MBA can start a great business, but at least you'd get fed the info). Or economics. Or any subject that can be applied on a bigger scale. Rather than getting a pointless or overly-specialized degree. If you're going to take on the debt, make it work for you the best you can.
@Jason Allen
Medical and law are expensive and time consuming. I chose engineering because of high starting salary with only a bachelor's, lots of jobs and a lot of variety in what you can do with it. Also if you chose to further pursue engineering or other stem fields you can get a "funded" graduate student position which has free tuition and a stipend. If you chose to go all the way and be a Professor you are higher paid than your humanities peers and it's easier to find a tenure-track position.
@Lindsay Brake also in engineering the internships and co-ops are paid (well!) And you can graduate with very little debt paying as you go
@Jason Allen
Medical and law are expensive and time consuming. I chose engineering because of high starting salary with only a bachelor's, lots of jobs and a lot of variety in what you can do with it. Also if you chose to further pursue engineering or other stem fields you can get a "funded" graduate student position which has free tuition and a stipend. If you chose to go all the way and be a Professor you are higher paid than your humanities peers and it's easier to find a tenure-track position.
Lindsay,
Yea, I could support a plan like that.
@Lindsay Brake, this what I did. Graduated in Mechanical engineering a month ago. Used internships money (usually made around $24 an hour each summer), scholarships, and grant money when available to graduate debt free. Now I'm at my first full time engineering job and I make 33% above the median salary for my area, with the opportunity to make much, much more in just a few years. In the midst of all that, I saved up enough to put 5% down on a property that I'm house hacking. Requiring me to only pay 35% of the mortgage. WAY cheaper than renting.
So for those who doubt, tell me those 4 years isn't work it?
@Bryce Bender, also, I've had this job lined up I'm currently in for 8 months. If you pick the right degree, you won't hunt for jobs after graduation, you can walk right into one.
@Lindsay Brake, this what I did. Graduated in Mechanical engineering a month ago. Used internships money (usually made around $24 an hour each summer), scholarships, and grant money when available to graduate debt free. Now I'm at my first full time engineering job and I make 33% above the median salary for my area, with the opportunity to make much, much more in just a few years. In the midst of all that, I saved up enough to put 5% down on a property that I'm house hacking. Requiring me to only pay 35% of the mortgage. WAY cheaper than renting.
So for those who doubt, tell me those 4 years isn't work it?
It seems to me that if you play it right then you can win by going to college.
But if you go just because that's what everyone tells you to do then it's probably a bad idea.
I started this post to just get an idea of what others thought. I used to be against it which is why I didn't go, that worked out great for me but I can see how for some people it would be a good idea.
Thanks!