Strategies for working with landowners to partner on development.

Strategies for working with landowners to partner on development.

Investor · Big Sky, MT · Member since 2019 · 66 posts · 28 votes

My investment Portfolio is in Big Sky, Montana.  I actively invest and manage STRs here and am looking to grow my portfolio.  The most challenging aspect of investing here (besides high prices) is that there is very little inventory as Big Sky is one of America's newest cities.  There wasn't a single home here before 1968!  Since the city itself is just being built there are very few options for me to increase my portfolio of buy and hold. 

I am seeing a large increase in demand for STRs here and am contemplating developing solely for the purpose of creating a perfect STR. I am not a developer but I believe it is in my wheelhouse. I have colleagues that are Architects in Bozeman, mentors in Big Sky that are developers, and I am connected to most of the pieces of the puzzle for developing a lot. However, I don't have the capital to buy a lot here, only enough to build.

There is a lot in town that is For Sale by Owner.  Is there a way to pitch them a partnership long term Buy/Hold?  The seller might potentially be interested in partnering and making a greater return on their investment by developing their lot....?  

Thoughts? 50/50 Split?  

Corey

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  • Specialist · Bozeman, MT · Member since 2016 · 237 posts · 153 votes
    6y

    If you're asking for a 50/50 split, they're going to ask you to develop that for them, and will ask about your background and expertise. That's going to cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's if everything goes well. If you need to hook into the sewer, it will cost more. No one is going to do work for free, and you won't need an architect, unless you are building the homes, but you will need a surveyor, a civil engineer, a structural engineer, a land use lawyer, at least 10 different contracting companies, and probably much more. Keep in mind that these people are probably getting an offer every week to develop their lot, but probably can't as they have a lien or mortgage on it. This is something that you need to research on your own before even approaching them. I approached a guy in Churchill to buy out his restaurant and home. We had 2 visits, negotiations, and THEN I checked the property in the Courthouse, and saw it was being foreclosed on... So do your homework.

    Some advice about development though:

    Check to see where the water table is or if there's a riparian habitat nearby. Just because there's land doesn't mean it's buildable. If the water table is within 4 foot of the surface, forget about it, it will never be approved by DEQ, and will need a public connection to sewer, and Big Sky is probably going to slap you with a SID at this point, because it's infrastructure is present and being used in most places I know of.

    Do not approach ANY engineer in town without a Land Use lawyer. Engineers will do what you say, but it's really not their responsibility to know whether or not your project will work out. You can finish up with them and have some colorful awesome looking plans, and then the DEQ in Bozeman will just deny it all.

    Price out infrastructure like roads, lights, fire hydrants, treatment systems, before you even approach the owner. You will quickly see in most cases, it is impossible to do without some major financing.

    Always try to carry the cost of water and septic to the buyers of lots. This will devalue the parcels a bit, but trust me when I tell you that a modern sand filter system at 10k gallons/day will cost over $1M. This is of course, if you can even build a septic system on the land.

    Be ready for it to take years for approvals. Sometimes the DEQ will want you to dig test pits and wait a year as soil tests are done. Google "Gateway Village", and read about it. That has been over a decade in the making. You will need money for lawyers and engineers throughout that entire time. So always have a spare $50k ready for that.

    Don't do a major sub, do a minor of 5 or less lots. Far less regulations, and infrastructure costs are greatly reduced.

    Know your target demographic. Big Sky people are not the type who like traveling on gravel roads or living on 1 acre lots. You may want to pave and divide no smaller than 5 acres. That may not work out in most cases.

    Good luck!

      • Attorney · Orlando, FL · Member since 2020 · 13 posts · 3 votes
        6y

        Loving this thread already. I'm in Orlando but my father-in-law just built a vacation ranch/home in Whitefish and I've spent the last 3 Octobers hunting elk in Emigrant, MT south of Bozeman.  Love it out there and have been toying with the idea of building for rent housing there. Absolutely agree on doing 5 lots or less to begin with. If you can get infill, do them attached, a row of 5 townhomes with back yards for dogs and 2 car garages. Construction cost will be lower, infill means you're likely close to city utilities because like Michael wisely said above, septic can be an issue. I'm a development lawyer for several national publicly traded homebuilders as well as a several apartment and commercial developers and consultant fees are no joke when doing a big subdivision--legal alone can be eye-watering, but of course nowhere near as bad as NOT getting good legal advice. Good luck and please keep me posted, I'd love to hear more.

      • Investor · Big Sky, MT · Member since 2019 · 66 posts · 28 votes
        6y
        Thanks for all of the info Michael.  This opened up a few more boxes for me to check up on and I have homework to do before approaching the seller.  A few of the pieces I am unfamiliar with like a land use lawyer.  I have touched base with a surveying company and civil engineer in the past.  A friend of mine in town operates a dirt work company and handles sewer and water.  I didn't think to check up on the current seller having a potential lien on the property (I will check with the title company.)  I have worked with Gallatin County Zoning and Planning in the past and found them to be very helpful and hit me straight with the questions I had on another lot a few years ago that ended up being in a riparian zone with a dry creek that had a water table within 4 feet of the surface and they advised me to get an easement to put a drain field on a neighbots undeveloped lot, I asked the neighbor and they denied the idea so I passed on the lot   

        This lot is in the meadow village of Big Sky, it looks to be abot 2-3 acres and right off of Ousel Falls road on the way to the Yellowstone Club.  There are nice homes on either side of the lot.  I don't think city sewer and water extends to this zone as I believe the large Firelight Development is on its own sewer and water and not Big Sky sewer and water.  

        I would take the role of GC on this job.  I live in Big Sky full time and really thrive at making contact to contractors and scheduling, and juggling multiple tasks.  

        Thanks again for all the info!

        Corey



        Originally posted by @Account Closed:

        If you're asking for a 50/50 split, they're going to ask you to develop that for them, and will ask about your background and expertise. That's going to cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. That's if everything goes well. If you need to hook into the sewer, it will cost more. No one is going to do work for free, and you won't need an architect, unless you are building the homes, but you will need a surveyor, a civil engineer, a structural engineer, a land use lawyer, at least 10 different contracting companies, and probably much more. Keep in mind that these people are probably getting an offer every week to develop their lot, but probably can't as they have a lien or mortgage on it. This is something that you need to research on your own before even approaching them. I approached a guy in Churchill to buy out his restaurant and home. We had 2 visits, negotiations, and THEN I checked the property in the Courthouse, and saw it was being foreclosed on... So do your homework.

        Some advice about development though:

        Check to see where the water table is or if there's a riparian habitat nearby. Just because there's land doesn't mean it's buildable. If the water table is within 4 foot of the surface, forget about it, it will never be approved by DEQ, and will need a public connection to sewer, and Big Sky is probably going to slap you with a SID at this point, because it's infrastructure is present and being used in most places I know of.

        Do not approach ANY engineer in town without a Land Use lawyer. Engineers will do what you say, but it's really not their responsibility to know whether or not your project will work out. You can finish up with them and have some colorful awesome looking plans, and then the DEQ in Bozeman will just deny it all.

        Price out infrastructure like roads, lights, fire hydrants, treatment systems, before you even approach the owner. You will quickly see in most cases, it is impossible to do without some major financing.

        Always try to carry the cost of water and septic to the buyers of lots. This will devalue the parcels a bit, but trust me when I tell you that a modern sand filter system at 10k gallons/day will cost over $1M. This is of course, if you can even build a septic system on the land.

        Be ready for it to take years for approvals. Sometimes the DEQ will want you to dig test pits and wait a year as soil tests are done. Google "Gateway Village", and read about it. That has been over a decade in the making. You will need money for lawyers and engineers throughout that entire time. So always have a spare $50k ready for that.

        Don't do a major sub, do a minor of 5 or less lots. Far less regulations, and infrastructure costs are greatly reduced.

        Know your target demographic. Big Sky people are not the type who like traveling on gravel roads or living on 1 acre lots. You may want to pave and divide no smaller than 5 acres. That may not work out in most cases.

        Good luck!

          • Investor · Big Sky, MT · Member since 2019 · 66 posts · 28 votes
            6y
            Originally posted by @Robert Bowser:

            Loving this thread already. I'm in Orlando but my father-in-law just built a vacation ranch/home in Whitefish and I've spent the last 3 Octobers hunting elk in Emigrant, MT south of Bozeman.  Love it out there and have been toying with the idea of building for rent housing there. Absolutely agree on doing 5 lots or less to begin with. If you can get infill, do them attached, a row of 5 townhomes with back yards for dogs and 2 car garages. Construction cost will be lower, infill means you're likely close to city utilities because like Michael wisely said above, septic can be an issue. I'm a development lawyer for several national publicly traded homebuilders as well as a several apartment and commercial developers and consultant fees are no joke when doing a big subdivision--legal alone can be eye-watering, but of course nowhere near as bad as NOT getting good legal advice. Good luck and please keep me posted, I'd love to hear more.

            Thanks Robert, 

            Whitefish is beautiful and has a great vacation rental market.  I've actually guided elk hunts just south of Emigrant near Dome Mountain in the Paradise Valley, what a beautiful space!  Not a bad idea to toy with, the demand has gone through the roof for rural rental properties, especially with the linger covid, more eyes are on rural Montana than ever before.  I hosted 40% more guests YoY than in 2019 here in Big Sky this summer.  

            There are a few signature new build developments near Emigrant that were built specifically for vacation rentals. I am looking at land in any direction from Bozeman within a 1.5-hour radius to potentially build.  I am thinking of doing an A-frame design development.  This company does kit style builds and I am interested in this and also other Pre-fab style homes.   There are a few great companies out of Salt Lake, Jackson Hole and Idaho.  

            https://everywhereco.com/ayfra...

            A subdivision of 3-5 homes gives me a little better grasp of what is recommended in development, especially for a beginner.

            I like Big Sky best because I currently manage 10 vacation rental properties here and see actual numbers of what kind of cash flow I could anticipate with a development of my own, I also am most connected here with contractors.  

            I will keep you posted on my progress, good luck elk hunting if you make it back up this way in October!  Bow season opened this weekend and the bulls are bugling!

            Corey

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