What are your thoughts about Prenuptial agreements?

What are your thoughts about Prenuptial agreements?

Joe S.Pro Member
Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

A prenuptial agreement, or prenup, is a legal contract between two people who are about to get married. It outlines how the couple will handle their finances during and after the marriage, including:

  • Property and assets: How to divide property and assets in the event of a divorce or death
  • Debts: How to allocate debts
  • Spousal support: Whether and how to provide alimony
  • Inheritance rights: How to handle inheritance rights

A prenup can help protect both parties' interests, and can be an effective way to avoid court proceedings and minimize the emotional and financial toll of a divorce. It can also be used to preserve assets acquired before marriage or planned for separate personal goals. A prenup is valid if it's entered into with full and fair disclosure of all assets by both parties, and if it protects both parties. It must also be executed and acknowledged with the same formality as a property deed.

So what got me to thinking about starting this thread is that all of my children are single, but I am thinking about helping them get started in their own business prior to them getting married.

What I don’t want to see happen is someone marry them and then kick them to the curb and then want half of everything they worked for or I help them with.
Now I understand that one of the arguments against prenups is that a person is making provisions for a failed marriage. However, an argument can be made that you’re making provisions to discourage someone from jumping ship and still getting an undeserved income so from that standpoint, you might be discouraging a break up.

As investors there could be potential targets on some love struck individual that has higher net worth from a gold digging opportunist partner.

What are your thoughts? 

3Reply
188 views

Most Popular Reply

Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
1y

I am 100% against prenuptial agreements.

If someone is concerned about losing their investments, they should be careful who they marry. Once married, they should fight like hell to keep that marriage. Couples who fight through difficult times end up happier and healthier. Unfortunately, society has lost sight of this truth.

If you marry someone unwilling to stick it out, you deserve what you get.

The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
See this reply in the discussion

51 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Joe S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y

    I know this post might be a little bit more mind stretching above and beyond buying real estate in Ohio and/or out of state investing. 🤣

    I had a friend that had been buying and selling properties for years and had a decent net worth. He met a lady from Mexico that could not even speak English. He married her and after some of her friends and family members encouraged her to divorce him and she basically got half of what he owned.  I believe that she would have stayed with him if she had not been paid to leave him.

    Tuff topic I know. If there’s no takers I understand. 

  • Alecia LovelessPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    1y

    @Joe S. I can see both sides of the coin.

    My Ex and I were together 20 years but not married. When we split up the actual assets were mine. After that length of time I felt my Ex deserved a portion of what had been accumulated. When all was said and done I probably gave my Ex about 40% of my net worth.

    I have been with my new partner 7 years and we’ve been discussing marriage for 6 of them. However during those years I have accumulated several properties worth about 8X what I had with my Ex.

    While I’m willing to have joint properties going forward and look forward to building our financial future together I will be getting a prenup before we tie the knot.

  • Greg ParkerBusiness Member
    Realtor, Contractor, Property Manager · Montgomery AL and Kowaliga, AL · Member since 2017 · 663 posts · 536 votes
    1y

    Just work it out with multi-member LLC's. My wife and I have a child as a member on each property(last man standing gets it all). And have the deed/title worded the same.

    Divorce, always be the bigger person, let them have it all. Karma will sort it out. 

    Have no debt.  If you owe the bank 1M, you have a problem, if you owe the bank 50M, the bank has a problem.

    MGM Property Pros LLC
    View Page
  • Joe S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Greg Parker:

    Just work it out with multi-member LLC's. My wife and I have a child as a member on each property(last man standing gets it all). And have the deed/title worded the same.

    Divorce, always be the bigger person, let them have it all. Karma will sort it out. 

    Have no debt.  If you owe the bank 1M, you have a problem, if you owe the bank 50M, the bank has a problem.


    If your child dies or has a divorce does his spouse become part owner of the properties? 

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    1y

    I am 100% against prenuptial agreements.

    If someone is concerned about losing their investments, they should be careful who they marry. Once married, they should fight like hell to keep that marriage. Couples who fight through difficult times end up happier and healthier. Unfortunately, society has lost sight of this truth.

    If you marry someone unwilling to stick it out, you deserve what you get.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Joe S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Nathan Gesner:

    I am 100% against prenuptial agreements.

    If someone is concerned about losing their investments, they should be careful who they marry. Once married, they should fight like hell to keep that marriage. Couples who fight through difficult times end up happier and healthier. Unfortunately, society has lost sight of this truth.

    If you marry someone unwilling to stick it out, you deserve what you get.

    My wife and I have been married over 23 years….  We have had to FIGHT it out more than once. Lol. 
    As you also mentioned “if you marry someone that is unwilling to fight it out, you deserve what you get. “ That is a fair statement, but as we both know, there’s some liars out there in the world that will promise to death do us part that will eye the door handle after the second disagreement.. the second disagreement after marriage of course and especially if they’re going to get taken care of financially in a big way for being a quitter. 

    Let’s try to paint a slightly different picture. Let’s say you pass and everything goes to your wife. After Number years, your wife gets lonely so remarried. The guy she marries is not as smart, compatible, or good looking as you of of course…😂 
    So let’s say the next thing you know there is a divorce court hearing and both lawyer up. The assets are split up 50-50. Keep in mind the lawyers will take as much as they can of the 50-50. The portfolio is order to be sold and as we both know if you force a sell many times it means selling at a discount.  

    So the above scenario might could’ve been avoided if there had not been a huge payout going to the undeserving party. 


    PS. I’m still not 100% sure where I stand in all of this. I’m just trying to get a better understanding.

  • Greg ParkerBusiness Member
    Realtor, Contractor, Property Manager · Montgomery AL and Kowaliga, AL · Member since 2017 · 663 posts · 536 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Joe S.:
    Quote from @Greg Parker:

    Just work it out with multi-member LLC's. My wife and I have a child as a member on each property(last man standing gets it all). And have the deed/title worded the same.

    Divorce, always be the bigger person, let them have it all. Karma will sort it out. 

    Have no debt.  If you owe the bank 1M, you have a problem, if you owe the bank 50M, the bank has a problem.


    If your child dies or has a divorce does his spouse become part owner of the properties? 


     If the child dies but I am still alive, nope.  Son n law is SOL.  I never liked that guy anyway.

    MGM Property Pros LLC
    View Page
  • Joe S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Greg Parker:
    Quote from @Joe S.:
    Quote from @Greg Parker:

    Just work it out with multi-member LLC's. My wife and I have a child as a member on each property(last man standing gets it all). And have the deed/title worded the same.

    Divorce, always be the bigger person, let them have it all. Karma will sort it out. 

    Have no debt.  If you owe the bank 1M, you have a problem, if you owe the bank 50M, the bank has a problem.


    If your child dies or has a divorce does his spouse become part owner of the properties? 


     If the child dies but I am still alive, nope.  Son n law is SOL.  I never liked that guy anyway.


     I’m not sure what a SOL means. 🧐

    The LLC agreement sounds interesting. Hopefully a couple of other people will chime in about the LLC avenue as well.

  • Accountant · Bryn Mawr, PA · Member since 2023 · 409 posts · 321 votes
    1y

    @Joe S.

    Everything should be separate property before their marriages but lots of nuance since you are in community property state.  

    Definitely great questions to work with your advisors with when you are doing your estate and legacy planning with your children.   

  • Real Estate Agent · Kansas City · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y

    I agree with Nathan. Maybe if you were super wealthy and worth 10/100's of millions it'd be good but hopefully you have the brains with that kind of money to protect your assets.

  • Joe S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Jonathan Bock:

    @Joe S.

    Everything should be separate property before their marriages but lots of nuance since you are in community property state.  

    Definitely great questions to work with your advisors with when you are doing your estate and legacy planning with your children.   

     As a parent of four children and wanting to help them have a head started in life, I just don’t want them to be taken advantage of by some gold digger. Their mother and I have set an example of staying together.

    I would like to help them start their business/get some investment properties. 

  • Michael DiossaPro Member
    Investor · RI · Member since 2023 · 191 posts · 163 votes
    1y

    SUPER IMPORTANT! "Now I understand that one of the arguments against prenups is that a person is making provisions for a failed marriage." Disregard that. 

    Someone who truly loves you will understand Plus if they aren't planning or expecting themselves to leave you or cheat that paper will never be relevant. John Cena made his partner sign a 70+ page....Yea 

    Also it's important to do a prenup officially. This should be signed infront of an attorney.

    A basketball player had his soon to be wife finally sign the prenup on the day of the wedding.... ANYTHING SIGNED on a moment of high stress will be thrown out in court... Luckily he knew what she was doing and called it off.

    SO when and where it's signed matters

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Joe S.:

     I’m not sure what a SOL means. 🧐

    S**t Outta Luck


  • Greg ParkerBusiness Member
    Realtor, Contractor, Property Manager · Montgomery AL and Kowaliga, AL · Member since 2017 · 663 posts · 536 votes
    1y

    The entity formation rules will definetaly be different for each state.  

    And, add a clause about gold-digging..lol.  That weird uncle everyone has will be glad to help take care of any family member disputes with unconventional methods, boating accidents, hunting accidents happen every day.

    MGM Property Pros LLC
    View Page
  • Joe S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Caleb Brown:

    I agree with Nathan. Maybe if you were super wealthy and worth 10/100's of millions it'd be good but hopefully you have the brains with that kind of money to protect your assets.

    Do you have any children and do you plan on helping them start their business prior to them getting married?





  • Real Estate Agent · Kansas City · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Joe S.:
    Quote from @Caleb Brown:

    I agree with Nathan. Maybe if you were super wealthy and worth 10/100's of millions it'd be good but hopefully you have the brains with that kind of money to protect your assets.

    Do you have any children and do you plan on helping them start their business prior to them getting married?





    I have 2 girls and just found out this week we are expecting another one. It depends on them and what they want to go after. If they want to go after a business I will help them start one. They are 2 and 9 months so have time before any of that comes into fruition. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Joe S.:

    I know this post might be a little bit more mind stretching above and beyond buying real estate in Ohio and/or out of state investing. 🤣

    I had a friend that had been buying and selling properties for years and had a decent net worth. He met a lady from Mexico that could not even speak English. He married her and after some of her friends and family members encouraged her to divorce him and she basically got half of what he owned.  I believe that she would have stayed with him if she had not been paid to leave him.

    Tuff topic I know. If there’s no takers I understand. 


    have seen this play with eastern Block women .  its pretty common .. in the PNW there are large communities and this pattern happens more than one might imagine.. So for those situations for sure pre nup..  As a seller of RE ( mainly new builds) We do see parents being protective of kids when they are worried about the new spouse.. Community law states handle this well..

    However if your talking about a wife who has been stay at home mother and or an earner then they deserve their fair share..
  • Joe S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Michael Diossa:

    SUPER IMPORTANT! "Now I understand that one of the arguments against prenups is that a person is making provisions for a failed marriage." Disregard that. 

    Someone who truly loves you will understand Plus if they aren't planning or expecting themselves to leave you or cheat that paper will never be relevant. John Cena made his partner sign a 70+ page....Yea 

    Also it's important to do a prenup officially. This should be signed infront of an attorney.

    A basketball player had his soon to be wife finally sign the prenup on the day of the wedding.... ANYTHING SIGNED on a moment of high stress will be thrown out in court... Luckily he knew what she was doing and called it off.

    SO when and where it's signed matters

    His soon to be wife was planning on winning whether or not the marriage lasted…
    Some of the posters have good marriages and have had good marriages for years. I married without a prenup. I had one investment property and one car, so not a whole lot to lose and no intelligent person that was looking to go gold digging would have picked me out of the bunch as a target. Lol 
  • Joe S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Joe S.:

    I know this post might be a little bit more mind stretching above and beyond buying real estate in Ohio and/or out of state investing. 🤣

    I had a friend that had been buying and selling properties for years and had a decent net worth. He met a lady from Mexico that could not even speak English. He married her and after some of her friends and family members encouraged her to divorce him and she basically got half of what he owned.  I believe that she would have stayed with him if she had not been paid to leave him.

    Tuff topic I know. If there’s no takers I understand. 


    have seen this play with eastern Block women .  its pretty common .. in the PNW there are large communities and this pattern happens more than one might imagine.. So for those situations for sure pre nup..  As a seller of RE ( mainly new builds) We do see parents being protective of kids when they are worried about the new spouse.. Community law states handle this well..

    However if your talking about a wife who has been stay at home mother and or an earner then they deserve their fair share..

     From the way, I see it. A prenup should not be used as a way of defrauding someone their fair share if they deserve fair share.  I have a high regard for home makers /stay at home mothers. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Joe S.:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Joe S.:

    I know this post might be a little bit more mind stretching above and beyond buying real estate in Ohio and/or out of state investing. 🤣

    I had a friend that had been buying and selling properties for years and had a decent net worth. He met a lady from Mexico that could not even speak English. He married her and after some of her friends and family members encouraged her to divorce him and she basically got half of what he owned.  I believe that she would have stayed with him if she had not been paid to leave him.

    Tuff topic I know. If there’s no takers I understand. 


    have seen this play with eastern Block women .  its pretty common .. in the PNW there are large communities and this pattern happens more than one might imagine.. So for those situations for sure pre nup..  As a seller of RE ( mainly new builds) We do see parents being protective of kids when they are worried about the new spouse.. Community law states handle this well..

    However if your talking about a wife who has been stay at home mother and or an earner then they deserve their fair share..

     From the way, I see it. A prenup should not be used as a way of defrauding someone their fair share if they deserve their fair share.  I have a high regard for stay at home mothers. 


    08 to 2011 I lost virtually 95% of my net worth and it was not an insignificant sum.  We are have crawled back.. But I could no way have done it with out my wife's ability loyalty standing by me etc etc.. We had to move to Jackson MS for one year to work on 220 defaulted loans I owned.. that was no pick nic.. We had to sell virtually everything we owned so we would not default with our commercial banks and or file BK.  Tenants stop paying all over the country it was a nightmare.. But as a team we survived and have now flourished.. A good women as a partner who sticks with you through the tough times is something to cherish.. When your self employed like we are I dont think a lot of folks realize how vulnerable our lives can be in a financial melt down like the GFC.

    And of course the GFC cratered many RE investors many marriages ended because of it and well even worse things happened to some folks .  

    But I know over the years I have seen couples really go at it and try to really harm the other spouse it happens as well. All of a sudden the other spouse deserves nothing etc etc.. I guess in cases of infidelity that can be a natural mind set.
  • Joe S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Joe S.:
    Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
    Quote from @Joe S.:

    I know this post might be a little bit more mind stretching above and beyond buying real estate in Ohio and/or out of state investing. 🤣

    I had a friend that had been buying and selling properties for years and had a decent net worth. He met a lady from Mexico that could not even speak English. He married her and after some of her friends and family members encouraged her to divorce him and she basically got half of what he owned.  I believe that she would have stayed with him if she had not been paid to leave him.

    Tuff topic I know. If there’s no takers I understand. 


    have seen this play with eastern Block women .  its pretty common .. in the PNW there are large communities and this pattern happens more than one might imagine.. So for those situations for sure pre nup..  As a seller of RE ( mainly new builds) We do see parents being protective of kids when they are worried about the new spouse.. Community law states handle this well..

    However if your talking about a wife who has been stay at home mother and or an earner then they deserve their fair share..

     From the way, I see it. A prenup should not be used as a way of defrauding someone their fair share if they deserve their fair share.  I have a high regard for stay at home mothers. 


    08 to 2011 I lost virtually 95% of my net worth and it was not an insignificant sum.  We are have crawled back.. But I could no way have done it with out my wife's ability loyalty standing by me etc etc.. We had to move to Jackson MS for one year to work on 220 defaulted loans I owned.. that was no pick nic.. We had to sell virtually everything we owned so we would not default with our commercial banks and or file BK.  Tenants stop paying all over the country it was a nightmare.. But as a team we survived and have now flourished.. A good women as a partner who sticks with you through the tough times is something to cherish.. When your self employed like we are I dont think a lot of folks realize how vulnerable our lives can be in a financial melt down like the GFC.

    And of course the GFC cratered many RE investors many marriages ended because of it and well even worse things happened to some folks .  

    But I know over the years I have seen couples really go at it and try to really harm the other spouse it happens as well. All of a sudden the other spouse deserves nothing etc etc.. I guess in cases of infidelity that can be a natural mind set.

     My wife has not worked a secular job since I married her 23+ years ago. She definitely was not gold digging when she married me though. 🤣

    Two attorneys and one CPA firm tried to hire her. In reality she can make more by working in our business that she owns part of than working in someone else’s business..

  • Henry ClarkPro Member
    Developer · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    1y

    Prenup from a young persons standpoint I would say no.  

    If you’re worth a lot and get married say when your 50 and the partner has very little I would say yes.  

    Our son is 23, through a trust we have staged him to get funds at 30 and 40.  Money is worth very little if you wait till they are say 60.  We did another tranche at 40 so by then he will have gone thru life by then.  If he screws up after 40 that’s on him.

    OP you’re in Texas.  Worked on a $50mm divorce settlement.  Neither party worked more than a year in their life.  Married 25 years.  Kids out of the house.  Money came from her parents.  In Texas it is split 50/50.  Even though 99% of their initial wealth came from her parents, all assets were commingled so could not isolate any of the funds or assets to make an argument about her being the owner.  Plus 50/50 in Texas to start with.  


    If I could give my son one thing it wouldn’t be money.  Would love to teach him Real Estate.  In 10 years he can be net worth $10mm on his own without any money from us.  And no one can take that away from him.  

  • Joe S.Pro Member
    OP
    Investor · San Antonio · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Henry Clark:

    Prenup from a young persons standpoint I would say no.  

    If you’re worth a lot and get married say when your 50 and the partner has very little I would say yes.  

    Our son is 23, through a trust we have staged him to get funds at 30 and 40.  Money is worth very little if you wait till they are say 60.  We did another tranche at 40 so by then he will have gone thru life by then.  If he screws up after 40 that’s on him.

    OP you’re in Texas.  Worked on a $50mm divorce settlement.  Neither party worked more than a year in their life.  Married 25 years.  Kids out of the house.  Money came from her parents.  In Texas it is split 50/50.  Even though 99% of their initial wealth came from her parents, all assets were commingled so could not isolate any of the funds or assets to make an argument about her being the owner.  Plus 50/50 in Texas to start with.  


    If I could give my son one thing it wouldn’t be money.  Would love to teach him Real Estate.  In 10 years he can be net worth $10mm on his own without any money from us.  And no one can take that away from him.  

    If it’s a young person, how much Networth would you think would justify doing a prenup?
  • Henry ClarkPro Member
    Developer · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Joe S.:
    Quote from @Henry Clark:

    Prenup from a young persons standpoint I would say no.  

    If you’re worth a lot and get married say when your 50 and the partner has very little I would say yes.  

    Our son is 23, through a trust we have staged him to get funds at 30 and 40.  Money is worth very little if you wait till they are say 60.  We did another tranche at 40 so by then he will have gone thru life by then.  If he screws up after 40 that’s on him.

    OP you’re in Texas.  Worked on a $50mm divorce settlement.  Neither party worked more than a year in their life.  Married 25 years.  Kids out of the house.  Money came from her parents.  In Texas it is split 50/50.  Even though 99% of their initial wealth came from her parents, all assets were commingled so could not isolate any of the funds or assets to make an argument about her being the owner.  Plus 50/50 in Texas to start with.  


    If I could give my son one thing it wouldn’t be money.  Would love to teach him Real Estate.  In 10 years he can be net worth $10mm on his own without any money from us.  And no one can take that away from him.  

    If it’s a young person, how much Networth would you think would justify doing a prenup?

     I would go with $3mm.  
    1.  If you take 1/2 that the young adult has $1.5mm and can still do anything.

    2. If $500,000 they should know up front how much will get used up. Let say the new spouse has $150,000 in college debt. Your child should know that up front they are losing that much. If they lose 1/2 of the $500,000 they still have $250,000 and that is still enough to do anything in REI career wise.

    3.  If $200,000 or less.  Who cares. That is just a good downpayment on a house.    
       
    4.  If they get divorced before they are 30 they have time to regroup.  If they have child support in 2 kids then they are hard pressed financially till the kids are 18 or the parent is early 40’s.  That is why we are giving funds at age 30 and 40.  

    Before 30 I would only give them seed money or a single starter rental unit in their name.  They need to fail and learn at a small dollar level.  

  • Scott TrenchPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    1y

    Everyone has a prenuptial agreement. 

    The difference is, if you don't specifically lay things out, you implicitly agree that the prenuptial agreement is the laws of the state you currently live in (or the future one you live in at the time of divorce). 

    Everyone has an estate plan too, by the same logic.  

    My wife and I chose to write down our own rules for both our marital property and our estate, so that it doesn't go to whatever wacky CO law governs distribution of wealth.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.