Philadelphia rowhome rehab costs

Philadelphia rowhome rehab costs

Member since 2021 · 23 posts · 10 votes

Hi BP, I just finished and sold a rowhome flip in Philly and it was quite successful. I did all the work myself and it was by no means a full gut, but regardless I definitely got a great sense for material costs for home renovations in the area. I am however, starting to shift my focus to doing less work myself and bringing in more contractors. I just looked at a West Philly rowhome that isn't a full gut, but needs a lot. The property is two stories with a basement and close to 1300 sqft with a tiny backyard and a big front porch. I would love some feedback on ballpark pricing for the work that needs doing. I've listed the level of work in a nutshell below. Maybe understanding GC pricing vs. subs would be helpful too. I will be doing pretty nice finishes, but nothing to break the bank. For example, $4-5/sqft hardwood floors rather than laminate; Quartz countertops rather than formica; Nice looking in trend fixtures from wayfair rather than homedepot builder grade; etc. I don't plan on opening up walls and reconfiguring electrical, but hvac might be needed and reconfiguring of electrical might need to happen in the basement.

-All new hardwood floors upstairs and down

-Gut one bathroom and add a second

-New tile in bathrooms and kitchen + backsplash

-Exterior work including sanding and painting

-Walls hopefully don't need a gut, but they do have a weird texture and I'm hoping to do some skimcoating

-All new interior and exterior doors and hardware

-New kitchen ($3,000 worth of ikea cabinets)

-All new light fixtures and appliances

-Finished basement (this is the biggest ? for me) I'm guessing all sorts of wiring needs to be reconfigured to run through joists so drywall can go on the ceiling. Maybe basic tile flooring down here

-Some minor structural work to a few basement joists due to rot  causing a slope in the floor at the back of the house. Could need some new subfloor in areas too.

-obviously all the demo involved tearing out old tile, carpet and moving out all the crap in the basement

-possibly update hvac (currently has radiators)

-Painting and trimwork

-Windows are actually ok, don't need new ones

-building a fence for privacy in the back yard

Sorry if this is a lot, but I know some of ya'll would rather have more detail than not enough. Any help on ballpark info for this level rehab would be great! 

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Accountant · NJ · Member since 2015 · 210 posts · 167 votes
4y

Just gut the whole thing, add electric and plumbing and roofing and spend $120k.  It will make it so much easier in the long run your plumbing is probably cast and it will leak. If you want to save the walls that will save you some money.  Instead of skim coating, its probably easier just put drywall on top of it and that is what the subs you hire are going to want to do. 

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  • Kevin MoyerBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 269 posts · 301 votes
    4y

    Ballpark maybe $100k? I’m not a rehab pro but you really can’t do anything substantial for less than $80k in Philly anymore and it sounds like you are going flip-grade as opposed to rental. Whatever estimate you land on add 20%. Prices are just skyrocketing. 

    @Rich O'Neill is the expert in this arena 

    Otter Property Management4.8624 Reviews
  • Contractor · Chadds Ford, PA · Member since 2015 · 567 posts · 460 votes
    4y

    Thanks @Kevin Moyer

    @Marshall Secord A few notes for you: 

    DIY to Subcontracting is a big jump in cost. Be prepared for that. 
    I get nervous when someone says "it's not a gut, but needs a lot" because a lot of times we will find that something behind the wall is messed up (knob and tube wiring, cast iron plumbing, etc) and add a giant change order to the budget. 
    "Minor Structural Work" can be an oxymoron. This can turn into a can of worms quickly, especially if you are already seeing a slope in the floor. 
    If the work is only what you are saying, it could probably be done in the $80k range, maybe less if doing some work yourself or managing the subs yourself, but I get nervous on these projects because there's a lot of room for variation. At least with a gut you know everything is going anyway, so theres not much that can go wrong. 

    Best of luck! Let me know if I can be helpful at all! 

  • Member since 2021 · 23 posts · 10 votes
    4y

    Thanks to the both of you for the replies. This is what I was looking for. I was earmarking about 100k in my head, but with all of the different resources out there explaining rehab costs in different cities and at different points in time, budgets for this kind of work can seem all over the place.  

  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    4y

    They are right on. Your standard gut job on a Philly row home in that 1200-1400 square foot range, all-in, will go from 80-100k just as other said. Inside our Philly REI Zoom group, we probably did 20 full gut rehabs like this last year and all fell in that range. If you want cost breakdowns from the investors in the area who have done it and paid for it, connect with @Al Diaz or @Krithika Nichin or @Vaishali V.. Al did 1, Krithika and Vaishali have both down 2 just last year.

  • Contractor · Chadds Ford, PA · Member since 2015 · 567 posts · 460 votes
    4y

    @Marshall Secord the other piece I didn't mention is the quality of subcontractor you hire. There are some out there that are very cheap, but not very good. There are some out there that are better than you need, but too expensive. It is really hard to find the person in the middle. This is ESPECIALLY true in Philly. We spend a ton of time finding the right contractors on jobs and its exhausting... 

    Best of luck! Again, let me know if I can be helpful. 

  • Member since 2021 · 23 posts · 10 votes
    4y

    Thanks! Yes, I’m anticipating the contractor hunt to be very taxing.  

  • Accountant · NJ · Member since 2015 · 210 posts · 167 votes
    4y

    Just gut the whole thing, add electric and plumbing and roofing and spend $120k.  It will make it so much easier in the long run your plumbing is probably cast and it will leak. If you want to save the walls that will save you some money.  Instead of skim coating, its probably easier just put drywall on top of it and that is what the subs you hire are going to want to do. 

  • Member since 2021 · 23 posts · 10 votes
    4y

    Yeah this makes a lot of sense and seems like much less of a headache. It really makes it hard to understand how some full gut row homes in areas like Brewerytown and Point Breeze can still sell for 150k when their ARV is anywhere from 300k-325k. Not a lot of wiggle room in there for profit. Especially once you factor in fixed costs.

  • Accountant · NJ · Member since 2015 · 210 posts · 167 votes
    4y

    Yeah there is not much wiggle room, you really have to be an outstanding operator to make good margins. 

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