I purchased a duplex in June in the South Jersey area to house hack with the expectation that the roof would need to be fully replaced, including decking. I also have a dead chimney that I want to be brought below the roofline. It's a 2 story building (~2500 sq. ft.), approx. 25 squares and would require ~70 sheets of plywood based on an estimate that I was provided. The existing decking is cedar wood that would need to be disposed. Nothing extraordinary about the sloping or structure of the roof. I've received two estimates that were both north of $30k; I was anticipating $20k on the high end. To further complicate things, the two companies that have provided estimates, and a third that I attempted to book for an estimate, have flat out refused to provide a breakout of the total cost. Not even what they'd be charging for plywood. Is this common practice to refuse providing line item estimates? I've had a roof replaced in the past, but it was 1/4 of the cost of what I'm being quoted, so I didn't inquire as much about cost breakout. I understand that they need to make money and I don't mind paying if it can be justified, but I'm having a hard time reconciling the cost with the amount of work that's required. My CPA also advised that I should be requesting itemized invoices for any work done, but these companies only want to provide scope of work and slap total price at the bottom of the page, so my concern is that I could be getting gouged on materials. Wanted to ask for opinions on reasonable expectations for what's provided on an estimate, especially considering the price range I'm being quoted. Thank you.

Keep shopping - I would suggest calling a local roofing supplier and get some referrals from them. Tell them you are a flipper/investor and you need a good priced crew that is insured and licensed. I have done this and found some amazing trades people. I would let them know that you want a quote with the price per sheet of plywood replaced and how much the chimney work would cost. So ask for: Roof replacement price Price per sheet of plywood or sq ft. Chimney work

I think it is fair to get a line item breakdown between the roof cost, the chimney cost, and the deck cost as they are 3 services, however, expecting a labor and materials breakdown of each is not reasonable and most good contractors won’t do it.

@Daniel Lempa decking AND roof? Not sure u are so far off. Given the recent run up and volatility I doubt they would want to quote you the materials cost even if they were otherwise inclined. They could get really caught on that one.

Short answer is no, your not going to get a line items detailed break out on a quote/Estimate. You may only see that if your dealing with an insurance claim, and then the totals will be high, which is probably what pricing the 2 companies you mentioned are using! (ins #'s to get their final price) The Est's you shared, ARE High!!! And surprising you are correct on your own assumptions... $20 on the high end. :) That is, if it is truly 1sty, Non-Steep, 25sq, Total ReDeck. Dan had a good suggestion (but reading his comments, I see why he doesn't do roofing anymore (lol)), to ask a local Supplier for a reference. But, if you want to cya (cover your a*s), and require them to have insurance, long warranty (5yrs), etc... you won't get a "crew" but perhaps a good owner/operator. "Crews" don't have their own insurance, generally. And again, no line items so they won't be quoting you price per/sheet of plywood or osb, because it is ALL being installed! (cedar shake shingles being removed, solid decking being installed) = a ReDeck job. IF it already had decking, then you'd see a breakout of: $xxx per/sheet of decking replaced. @JD Martin : Kind of curious, WHY would you use 4 different contractors for roofs? Did each one close shop, or you were looking for the cheapest person each time? ... If your an Investor, your the type that "we" usually try to avoid for sure! lol Nothing personal, but the Investors that we work with, know that WE are trustworthy, do a GREAT job, and we are very fair on pricing. So why wouldn't they use us on other jobs!? :D Suggestion: On a total ReDeck, spend the little extra and get the OSB boards with the Radiant Barrier on the back of them! (like aluminum foil) When newly built or situations like this, is the only time you get to do this! And here in the South, we build or always think about ways to reduce or alleviate the Heat! Maybe you don't have to worry about that so much up north. AND, when they strip off the cedar, you'll have the lathe boards up there (1x3's or 1x4 boards), most time the crews want to just move the few in place to catch the edge of the new decking, BUT go ahead and tell them remove all the extra ones! So you'll leave the ones up there that need to be on the edges of the decking, about every 4ft, coming down the roof. Do this Especially if your going to use the Radiant Barrier decking, as any surface of that stuff that is pressed up against something, I.e. the support lathe boards, is negated! (if pressed up against something, the R.Barrier doesn't hardly work) Sorry I/we aren't closer to help. For sure, don't call anyone that you might hear on the Radio, see on TV, etc... There's a reason they have the money to spend on those expensive ad slots! :P Message me directly if you have specific questions or that. Jerry w/J's Roofing Richardson, TX

They are ripping you off. Try to get someone just to quote you the labor. I just had a roof done and I paid 260 a square and bought the materials myself. Roofer gave me a list and I ordered directly from the lumbar yard. The reason they don't want to break it down is because they are adding a cost to the materials. Go on Angislist and get more estimates. Don't forget to verify directly with their insurance carrier to make sure the have workmans comp insurance and liability insurance.

Roofing estimates: are my expectations too high?

Daniel Lempa

OP

Pitman, NJ · Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 1 vote

3y

Quote from @JD Martin:

I think in the last 7 or 8 years I've done 12 roofs with 4 different contractors. Not one provided a line item breakdown of materials and labor. Job price only, all materials & labor included. The cushion is either their bonus for being good at estimating and getting the work done fast or their loss for missing things on the walk around. Every contractor I've used has walked the entire roof, where they're looking for soft spots, extra flashing work, intrusions (pipe boots, chimneys, skylights, etc), and the like.

The only way you know if it's a good price is to get experience and bids. If all the professional bids you get are within 10% of each other you know that's your local going rate. If they are all over creation you need to do more investigative work.

Thank you for your input! @JD Martin

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Daniel Lempa

OP

Pitman, NJ · Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 1 vote

3y

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

@Daniel Lempa You gotten good info, I just wanted to chime in with @Ryan Normand

Why do you really care what they are paying/charging for plywood? It has no relevance.

Do not expect any Contractor to give you a breakdown of pricing. Just find a good, fair price with a Contractor who is properly licensed/bonded/insured with good references. That is all that you need to know. And DO NOT pick the lowest price you find, that never ends well.

@Bruce Woodruff Thank you for your input, your point is taken but hear me out. I don't care what they're paying for plywood, I care what I'm paying for plywood. I think that's extremely relevant when I need a full decking replacement and a small price difference amounts to thousands of dollars for my bottom line.

My dilemma is determining what is a fair price, and with the estimates that I've received, I have zero basis for comparison except total price. If the next contractor comes along and says $20k, how do I know if he's lowballing/low quality or if the others were overcharging because it was a job they didn't really want to do? I can't make an educated decision if I don't know at least at a high level where the money I'm charged is being allocated. A little bit of transparency would go a long way with earning my trust and my business.

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Daniel Lempa:

You are not getting it. It does not matter what they pay for plywood or how much they mark it up to you. It does not matter if they pay their employees an extra $5 hr.

All that matters is that 1) they are licensed/bonded/insured (WC & Liability) 2) They have the experience to do an Industry standard acceptable, or better, job.

That is all that matters. Plus I guess it would be nice if you were thrilled with the price but that ain't gonna happen....you are a micro manager and feel some need for more facts than you should ever care about. But carry on, do it your way. You will almost never get a great quality job for a fair price...

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Daniel Lempa

OP

Pitman, NJ · Member since 2019 · 5 posts · 1 vote

3y

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

All that matters is that 1) they are licensed/bonded/insured (WC & Liability) 2) They have the experience to do an Industry standard acceptable, or better, job.

That is all that matters. Plus I guess it would be nice if you were thrilled with the price but that ain't gonna happen....you are a micro manager and feel some need for more facts than you should ever care about. But carry on, do it your way. You will almost never get a great quality job for a fair price...

The dismissive attitude and name-calling isn't lending credibility to your response or to contractors in general, but I'll take what you said into consideration.

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

3y

Quote from @Daniel Lempa:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

All that matters is that 1) they are licensed/bonded/insured (WC & Liability) 2) They have the experience to do an Industry standard acceptable, or better, job.

That is all that matters. Plus I guess it would be nice if you were thrilled with the price but that ain't gonna happen....you are a micro manager and feel some need for more facts than you should ever care about. But carry on, do it your way. You will almost never get a great quality job for a fair price...

The dismissive attitude and name-calling isn't lending credibility to your response or to contractors in general, but I'll take what you said into consideration.

Sorry dude, I meant no offense by the term 'micro-manager' if that's what bothered you? Just an opinion I gathered from your comments and having dealt with thousands of customers. My apologies if I was off...... :-)

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Dan White

Flipper/Rehabber · Haymarket · Member since 2022 · 76 posts · 70 votes

3y

Quote from @Daniel Lempa:

Quote from @Dan White:

I don't think it is a materials breakdown like nails, shingles, felt, etc.

I think the biggest question you have is if the price is fair...maybe.

The cedar wood you talk about is cedar shake shingles? Or cedar planks for roof support?

Disposing of cedar shakes are labor intensive and has high dump fees. If it is cedar planks for decking, you must replace everything with plywood to support new shingles. Again, labor intensive.

I did roofing for 7 years and it is a pretty common request to breakdown into shingle install price and plywood install price...takes 5 minutes.

The SOW will have tearoff and replace shingles (Price) this includes their materials, labor and profit included...not broken down, just a total.

Plywood Replacement (Price) same as before, total price for materials, labor, and profit...not broken down, just a total.

Chimney work (Price)

Keep looking around.

Thanks for the suggestions @Dan White! You're right, it's more about wanting to feel confident that I'm getting a fair price and that I'm not just being charged a 500% markup on materials. I've had that happen for small repairs for other items, so it gives me chills thinking that could be happening on a much larger scale.

Are you suggesting that it's more reasonable to ask for a total (which includes materials, labor, profit) for each "phase" of the project ? i.e. X amount for tearoff and re-decking, x amount for chimney, x amount for shingle replacement.

I think at the end of the day - getting multiple quotes is a good practice especially on high ticket items. Make sure to compare apples to apples on shingles and the overall scope of work.

If the chimney is optional for you - ask for a price for that separate.

If the contractors just want to give a lump sum price for everything, that is fine too. Just make sure that have the same scope of work.

As mentioned earlier, the important thing is the licensed and insured part. Make sure everyone is legit.

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Roofing estimates: are my expectations too high?

Roofing estimates: are my expectations too high?

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